Need some help. Constructive responses only.

[Cammac]

I am going to be brutally honest about myself so if you are a moronic adolescent who feels the need to mock me, take your idiocy elsewhere, I will not be baited into arguments by some child who doesn't know his asshole from his elbow. You will get no ego boosting attention from me.

I should start by telling my potential female responder that I know well and understand that I am not perfect in any way. I am a chubby 27 year old virgin who has never so much as kissed a girl in a truly intimate fashion. This possibly due to not ever pursuing or seriously entertaining the thought of a relationship for most of my adult life until recently.

My standards for women are quite complex and it seems like I will never find someone whom is right for me. For one, I am an atheist and that seems an obstacle in its own right. Hell, here in the USA its all but a taboo. I am a highly rational person and while I am not so close minded as to need a person whom agrees with me on everything, I cannot connect emotionally with people who don't have at least these basic things in common with me.

Second I am not only interested in sex. I am a very intimate person, but sex is only one expression of intimacy. When I dream of my fantasy lover, I think of a hand to hold and someone to share warmth with.Make no mistake, I am a man and my blood is red. In a nutshell I want the whole package sex and love, and all of the little things in between. This puts me between a rock and a hard place. It seems i either meet women who are shallow and only care for money and material goods with little interest intimacy other than occasionally throwing you some sex to keep the gifts and attention flowing, Or even worse I get the "Let's just be friends" treatment.

Note to the ladies: When you say this to a guy, Its like kicking him in the balls, poking him in the eye, and kicking his puppy. Please just reject guys you are not interested in. Dont do the "just friends" thing. It hurts like a broken bottle of tabasco in your guts.

Next, I am not a typically social person. I hate bars, clubs, and all those kinds of places. and when i would be coaxed into going there I never met anyone that i felt like talking with let alone be friends or lovers with. Its a gathering ground for the exact opposite kind of person I m looking for. So all i can do is hope that the movies don't always lie and ill meet my dream lover in the grocery store someday. Naturally the waiting part is like Chinese water torture.

So what should i do? Where are all the good women out there? I am trapped in a sea of manipulators, drama queens, and outright prostitutes. Where in the hell are all of you?! And why the hell is it that every good one i meet is taken?! ARRGHH!

Just help me out here. give me some advice.

[sookie6]

You should maybe go to Europe...there are definitely more atheists there that in the US, although I'm sure you could meet like minded people in big cities in the States as well.
Also diet a bit to go from chubby to normal looking...then start any activity fom arts to sports to meet new people, try online dating...keep smiling, be happy with yourself and do not let rejection deter you from trying and meeting new people.

When your spirits are low take sometimes for yourself but go back into the ring as soon as you can...

PS: you are probably resisting the idea of being close to a person either because you are putting your ideal woman on a pedestal, like an unreachable goddess or you ar too afraid to now admit your lack of experience. You have not kissed nor had sex at 27. You need to change this.

You won't get a medal for being pure and untouchable.

[sunflower77]

Well, how do you expect to meet people if you don't like to go out and when you don't see yourself as a social person? Sometimes you have to go out of your comfort zone and do things that you haven't done to meet the people and enjoy the experiences that you haven't met and experienced. All I am trying to say is that Wonder Woman won't just knock on your door one day. I am European, so the atheist thing doesn't seem like a big deal to me, what did strike me in your post though is the generalisations that you make about women, I don't think that that will get you far, mostly because that means that you have developed a certain way of seeing the people you meet which could perhaps be preventing you from actually getting to know them? I don't know where you live (is it a small town?) but where I come from there is all kinds of women, just like there is all kinds of men, but you have to date and make the effort to find the one you are most compatible with. Also, if you want to attract more female attention, perhaps you could work on the first impression you make, join a gym, dress as so to attract the women to want to date, be confident, and don't judge a book by its cover.

[Cammac]

About what i expected. Just like any woman change who I am Change my appearance. And they say men are the shallow ones. What a joke

[sookie6]

About what i expected. Just like any woman change who I am Change my appearance. And they say men are the shallow ones. What a joke

Honestly you don't want to be helped...you live in a fancy world where people can grow fat, unattractive, anti-social, love and sex frustrated and still hope that someone will fall for them just the way they are....not happening...if you dislike women and their expectations...either become a monk or turn to men...they are so much less shallow...

[sunflower77]

Is that the only part of our replies that you understood and noted? Well, that explains the problem...there were a number of other suggestions that you chose to ignore.... No one is saying you need to look like Brad Pitt man, but unfortunately its the first thing that people notice when they meet you. I don't know what you look like, but I know a few guys who don't take showers or go to the hairdresser and also call women shallow and wonder why they dont end up getting dates...well simply put girls don't want guys that smell bad and look like Robinson Crusoe, or at least I don't sorry, it's disgusting. It's not so hard to look good, and it doesn't even necessarily mean you need to lose weight or anything, it may just come down to dressing well or changing your haircut or joining a gym only so that your confidence is boosted a little and you have more energy and feel healthier.
Also, if you do not appreciate people's advice and comments, why even bother ask?
Have you considered the possibility that it may actually be your fault that you are still a virgin and have never been with a girl? I like how you blame ALL the women out there because it just HAS TO BE THEIR FAULT that they don't like you for who you are but you don't stop to consider the possibility that it may all actually depend on you. We decide who we are and we decide how people look at us. So far, from both your posts all I can conclude about you (or the first impression you gave at least) is that you are angry, negative, stubborn and rude...not a very good first impression to make.

[Yet another guy]

It's not so hard to look good, and it doesn't even necessarily mean you need to lose weight or anything, it may just come down to dressing well or changing your haircut or joining a gym only so that your confidence is boosted a little and you have more energy and feel healthier.

Really? Do the clothes and hair make such a big difference that they can make an ugly guy look good? I agree that losing weight will make an overweight guy more attractive but I find it weird that hair or clothing would have much difference.
I know it doesn't work like that for women in my eyes at least. A pretty face is pretty and an ugly face is ugly no matter what they have done to the hair that grows on top of it. Clothes make even less difference. Ok, revealing clothes make a woman more attractive if she has a beautiful body in the first place but it doesn't help an ugly one.
Furthermore, if hair and clothing really do make a huge difference in guys appearence, is there a type of haircut and clothing that is considered universally attractive? They are surely a matter of taste and changing to a new style would only make a guy more attractive to some and less attractive to others, wouldn't it?

[Nicholas_V]

OP: you say you're rational. You surely then realise that we live in a world where appearance and social attitude matter. From your post the message that comes through is that you are highly defensive and not prepared to make an effort to adapt. What do you expect then? The world to change for you? More likely it will keep going on without you.

These are the plain facts. We are all different in more ways than one (and some more than others), but we have to live with each other, like it or not.

Make your choice: you either refuse to "change" (perhaps I should say re-adjust) some of your habits and suffer the consequences on your social life; or you *compromise* and make yourself approachable and open to people you find interesting.

There is an actual cost and a possible benefit no matter what choice you make. Which one is most suitable for you depends on your true type which obviously we cannot know (but you do). Suit yourself.

[sunflower77]

Really? Do the clothes and hair make such a big difference that they can make an ugly guy look good? I agree that losing weight will make an overweight guy more attractive but I find it weird that hair or clothing would have much difference.
I know it doesn't work like that for women in my eyes at least. A pretty face is pretty and an ugly face is ugly no matter what they have done to the hair that grows on top of it. Clothes make even less difference. Ok, revealing clothes make a woman more attractive if she has a beautiful body in the first place but it doesn't help an ugly one.
Furthermore, if hair and clothing really do make a huge difference in guys appearence, is there a type of haircut and clothing that is considered universally attractive? They are surely a matter of taste and changing to a new style would only make a guy more attractive to some and less attractive to others, wouldn't it?

I think you misunderstood me a little. Obviously nothing does miracles but yes sometimes a small effort can bring a lot of change, especially when it comes to the way you see yourself and the confidence it may bring you. There are a lot of people out there that dont even try, thats kinda what I was talking about. If it looks like you havent even washed your hair or your clothes are wrinkled or not chosen well to fit your figure then yes it makes a huge difference in the way that women see you or at least in the way I would see someone. And obviously there is nothing that is universally attractive...people are different...but there are ways to look decent, serious, somewhat fashionable, and most importantly your age so that you attract the people that you would want to attract.

[ShellyZ]

Online dating. It's great for people who don't like the bar scene.

And I don't know what state you live in, but I never thought being atheist was taboo in this country. I personally know a lot of people who are atheists (used to be one myself, in fact) and they've never been treated badly because of it. Being an atheist seems perfectly normal to me. Do you live in the Bible belt?

It seems i either meet women who are shallow and only care for money and material goods with little interest intimacy other than occasionally throwing you some sex to keep the gifts and attention flowing

Have you really met women like this? You say you're a virgin but then you say you know women who occasionally have sex with you to get gifts and attention? Or is this just something you've heard about and now you're making assumptions about women you don't even know?

Or even worse I get the "Let's just be friends" treatment.

Note to the ladies: When you say this to a guy, Its like kicking him in the balls, poking him in the eye, and kicking his puppy. Please just reject guys you are not interested in. Dont do the "just friends" thing. It hurts like a broken bottle of tabasco in your guts.

I've never actually said this to a guy, but try to understand: women who say this are trying to be polite. They're trying to spare your feelings. OK, it doesn't work, I get that. But give the girl a break, she's trying to reject you without being mean, and sometimes girls just don't know what to say.

About what i expected. Just like any woman change who I am Change my appearance. And they say men are the shallow ones. What a joke

All I can say is this: What you've been doing is not working. So you might want to try something different.

[IndiReloaded]

We need a thread about dating strategy. Seriously. You aren't the only one with this problem, doll.

How do you choose the women you approach? Note I am not asking how you *approach* them. Before even that step. How do you determine a woman is even of interest? Based on what criteria?

[doppelgaenger]

Change your attitude, and everything else will come naturally.

[Cammac]

Alot of you assume i am bitter. Im not i am just being brutally honest. to answer a previous question....

Have you really met women like this? You say you're a virgin but then you say you know women who occasionally have sex with you to get gifts and attention? Or is this just something you've heard about and now you're making assumptions about women you don't even know?[/B]

The signs are there only a fool does not pay heed to them. Their attitude speaks volumes. I saw it happen to many friends. I try to avoid women who act like my friends exes on principle. they have nothing i want.

Aside from that, my thanks to indie reloaded for your response. I truly appreciate when people do not judge. to answer your question I try to find someone who is intellectual that is my main thing. I want to find someone to grow old and have children with. Sex is easy to get and if i ever get that desperate to end my virginity ill just pay for it and i probably will before i find any one i respect. I have found it difficult to meet intelligent, mature women. And when i do they are always taken or not interested in having children at all and that's a no no. There is something about girls who don't want kids ever that turns me off. I don't plan on being a dad next week but i want to once I get my life straight. that might be years, but that is non negotiable to me.

[IndiReloaded]

YOu are very welcome. A point tho from my experience: those who subscribe to "brutal honesty" tend to serve brutality more than honesty, methinks.

Cammac, I don't really have any advice beyond what has been said. I will say that I dated and married a 'nice guy' (a geek/nerd, some might say) and have been very happy for it.

BUT, if he had even hinted of the attitude you bring to the table, bitter and crude, there is no way I would have pursued anything w/him. If you want the full meal deal, you need to show some restraint and finesse, whatever your frustrations.

In fact, you might want to consider a *safe* fling if only to blow off some of your sexuality. It will make you more relaxed in the interactions that actually matter.

Good luck.

[IndiReloaded]

In terms of how to meet the woman w/the qualities you mention, I think you are going to have to extend yourself to some extent beyond a chance grocery aisle meeting. Have you tried searching for interesting activities at meetup.com? Or enrolling in a course w/a higher %age of females (e.g. language or fine dining/cooking)?

My point is that you need to be what you want to attract. I am imagining a lovely, quiet gal sitting at home coding on her computer and dreaming of meeting a young man such as yourself. She decides to sign up for a language or cooking class b/c a friend suggests it and she figures that even if she doesn't meet someone interesting, at least she'll have learned something interesting... create your own opportunities for success, Cammac.