about to lose my mind

[Adrift]

Well, this is the first time I’ve ever put anything on a forum, but I’m afraid I’m going to lose my mind and want to ask for some advice. I am a 59 year old man, divorced after all the children had grown, and have been with a beautiful lady for about a year now. She’s 47, so I’m a bit older, but we’re both mature and I’m very healthy, so we seem to match well. She was married for ten years, but has been divorced for the last 12 years. For the first five years after her divorce she dated a man and was seriously thinking of marrying him, but she had a life crisis come up in 2002 and didn’t see him for a couple of months. He thought she was ignoring him and he started seeing another woman. Well, she was devastated and broke up any possibility for marriage, and the guy moved in with the other woman. HOWEVER, they have remained very good friends – she would say he is her best friend – all these years since. She has a pet name for him (as he has for her) and whenever she refers to him she uses his pet name. She talks to him on the phone every day, and they get together about every other week. Kay lives with her parents, and he usually comes to the house to have a meal and chat, so I absolutely believe it IS a platonic relationship. He’s a lot richer than I and occasionally they go out to expensive restaurants. He also occasionally buys her expensive gifts. Kay insists that even if I wasn’t in the picture she still would not marry him, but this guy (who is not living with anyone any longer) has never given up the dream that she will some day marry him. Kay has not told him about us, although she is very honest with me about her relationship with him.

I know Kay still loves this man, and she agrees she does, but says she doesn’t have romantic love for him, but he is important in her life. She says I’m the only man in the world she has any desire to marry (and we’re making plans for this) and I believe her. In fact, until I fell in love with this woman almost over a year ago, I never knew people could experience the kind of love I have for her.

Now here’s the rub. I believe she loves me deeply, and I believe her when she says Doug is only a special friend, but IT DRIVES ME CRAZY that they talk every day on the phone and see each other regularly. And every time she talks about this guy she lights up and laughs about something he said. I never felt this kind of jealousy before in my life. Someone please tell me something that will make me stop feeling this stupid jealousy and accept this in her life.

[ritah59]

Hello Adrift,

My first post on this forum!

The human mind is indeed complex. And fickle, too. The mind sometimes does not know what exactly it wants. As in the case of Kay.

You say you believe Kay loves you deeply. But it looks like you have not (yet) succeeded in getting an "official" confirmation from her to that effect.

At the same time, the fact that the daily telephonic conversations mean a lot to her, and that Kay has agreed that she loves Doug - though it is platonic she says -, only suggests that Kay is still weighing her options. The dice as of this moment seems loaded in Doug's favor.

My two pennies would be to get her to not play mysterious and somehow make herself clear to you, as to where you stand in her life. The simple reason is that, were she to decide in favor of Doug, then you will be free to move on. Life is short, and one cannot keep waiting indefinitely for the other to make up their mind, you know.

Here's praying that you get your revelations soon,

Rita

[Adrift]

Doug hurt his back today, and Kay is going to go to his house and fix him supper. She was originally going to come over here for the rest of the day. Rationally I know she should go help her friend, but emotionally it's awful. I told her how I was feeling and she assured me there was nothing "intimate" or romantic involved. She is clear that she wants to marry me, and we're working towards that, but I still have such jealousy. I want to accept her relationship with Doug and trust her completely, but this jealousy keeps consuming me.

[vashti]

i don't understand why your relationship with this woman is being kept secret, nor do I think it's a good idea to continue with this secrecy. It sounds like your girlfriend is playing you both. Is it possible she using you to make the other man jealous?

[Anomaly]

The biggest thing to take from your post is that no matter how old you are, relationships will always be complicated. I think that if she plans on getting married to you, you should just accept that friendship. Since they have been friends for so long, that's never going to change, she will always care about this guy. But the important thing is that she wants to marry YOU, not him. So I say that you should put aside your jealousy, and just be happy with the way that she is, and whatever baggage that she comes with.

Just think, you could be all alone... but you're not... you have a beautiful woman who obviously cares about you. So my advice to you would be to just let it go, and be happy with her just the way that she is. Remember that NOBODY is perfect!! And most importantly, count your lucky stars, because you don't realize how lucky you really are!

IMHO, you should just get married and not worry about who her friends are, she has the right to have friends. You have both lived a full life, and you have both met many intriguing people along the way. And you should just trust that she won't leave you for him, because after all, if she cared about him, more than she does you, she would be marrying him instead.. Best of luck to you both!

[Adrift]

Thanks, Anomaly. If I had a friend share with me this same dilemma, I think I'd say just about the same thing you told me. Up close and personal, however, it hurts a lot more than one would expect. It is a simple fact that she does want to marry me and we are making plans for such - albeit a ways in the future. I want to come to the place where I fully accept this friendship Kay has with Doug, and actually look toward the day when he hurts his back we go TOGETHER to his house and help him. (Not meaning I hope he hurts his back.)

[Adrift]

Thanks, Vashti, for the thoughts. I'm quite sure Kay is not trying to make Doug jealous. She has told him, first years ago, and then again a few months ago, that she would never marry him. I do hope that soon she will tell Doug that she is going to get married, but she knows he will be very sad about it and hates to break it to him.

[Adrift]

I’d like to add more to this topic to give a fuller picture of my situation. A couple of weeks ago Kay and I went away for a few days to have time together. It was a very sweet time, but at one point Doug came into the conversation and Kay said, of all the men who have ever loved her, he has loved her the most and the best. I said that hurt, and her response was to say, “Hurt or not hurt, it’s true.”

As I’ve noted in the first post, Kay and Doug dated for five years and were thinking about marriage. But Doug is a chain smoker and Kay hates cigarettes. Doug told her that the day they were married he would stop smoking. Doug also loves mahjong and plays several nights a week, sometimes losing quite a bit of money, and sometimes winning some. Kay has a hard time with this as well. So the marriage never came about.

I had a very good job with fantastic benefits that I quit so that I could be near Kay. I left many good friends and now live on a small pension that is manageable but doesn’t leave much room for luxury. So it DOES HURT for her to say he has loved her more and better. He didn’t even quit smoking when he knew she hated it! He did try to cut back some on his mahjong nights, but never considered giving it up. As noted in the first post, he takes her out to expensive restaurants and buys her expensive gifts, and he buys things for her parents, so these are tangible demonstrations of love, but I think I’ve given up so much more than he was ever willing to give up for her. And so it hurts for her to say he has loved her more and better.

One day when Kay and I were in a tense place, she said Doug is a better man than I am. Well, I am no saint, but I do strive to live life at a high level of integrity. I really don’t quite understand why she hasn’t married this man who loves her better and who is such a great person, and I have actually told her so. At least I don’t smoke, and I may have a cold beer once in a long while but otherwise don’t drink, but this just doesn’t seem to make a case for her to marry me.

Not sure why I tell you all this but you can tell it weighs heavy on me. I truly appreciate all the answers I’ve received so far and look forward to what any of you can offer on this. I do agree totally with Anomaly that I need to accept that Kay has friends and that Doug is and has been a very special friend in her life. But I feel as though I live in his shadow. Should I just live in the advice Anomaly offered, or is there more I need to work through?

[Gigabitch]

How many different ways does she have to show you that her heart belongs to him regardless of their interrupted marriage plans? This woman is not available, Adrift. Doug is the man in her life and you're just filling in for him in the places where he doesn't satisfy her.

Life is too short for this. I would rather be alone than in your position. Why wouldn't you?

[bluesummer]

I agree with Giga. She is vocalising her preference for this man.....it would concern me greatly. To say he loves her better than you, that he is a better man than you....how could she say such things to someone she supposedly loves and wants to marry? I think she's fooling HERSELF. She's in love with this guy, but thinks she doesn't simply because she doesn't want to marry him. Oye vay.

You need to have a very very frank discussion with her about this. Reiterate what she said to you, and explain to her why the things she says and does are hurtful and potentially damaging to the relationship. Tell her how it makes you feel and ask what, if anything, she is going to do about it. If she wants to continue on the same way, I guess it's your choice whether or not you want to live out your life and your marriage in the shadow of Doug.

[Adrift]

(Deep sigh!) I’m not some starry-eyed teenager in puppy love. I'm 59 years old, I've been married 35 years, I raised three children and now have six grandchildren, I've worked on three continents and have been involved in two wars. I know what it is to love another. I have loved my parents, my wife, my children, and many friends (and even a cat and a dog or two along the way). But folks, until about a year ago I never knew what it was to have a love so intense and overwhelming – until a year ago I thought all those poems were pure slush. But now I’ve truly “fallen in love” with a beautiful woman. Never even knew such a love existed! And as I share these thoughts and emotions, I see what you are all saying all too clearly, and DAMN! this is hard! I know Kay does love me, but as Giga and Bluesummer share, her heart does seem to belong to Doug. As I said, I’m afraid I’d always be living in his shadow.

I find myself agreeing with Anomaly that I need to accept Kay’s relationship with Doug as an old friendship, but as I shared further I do emphatically agree with Giga and Bluesummer. They speak right to the heart of the issue, and they help me see why I get so jealous.

I do indeed need to follow Bluesummer’s advice and have a serious talk with Kay about this. I’ve prayed for and am looking for the best time and circumstances to do so. After reading those last two posts, I was ready today to pull the plug on this relationship. But where would I go now? What would I do now? There’s a stupid sense that I’d have reached the end of my life (sorry if this sounds too maudlin).

[Gigabitch]

(Deep sigh!) I'm 59 years old, I've been married 35 years, I raised three children and now have six grandchildren, I've worked on three continents and have been involved in two wars.

That's great, but you know ****-all about dating. I think love is only love if it's reciprocated, and she's not reciprocating. You can do better, and I hope you do.

[Adrift]

It was good to read the last post and find something to make me laugh. Well, Giga, you called it pretty well. I had my first date when I was 17 and after two years in the army married that girl. So you can see, my dating experience is severely limited. As an adult I have virtually no dating experience at all. I’m very glad I found this forum and appreciate all the advice and perspective I’m getting.

[kenzo07]

well i have a girl who's livin with someone else,she's acting just like the same as your girl..she's really beautiful aswell,she cant leave her beau but keeps on telling me that im the one she loves and not him..i just had a thought that pretty girls do really have a lot of hearts when it comes to love...its all up to you weather you fight for your love or let her choose if she can stay away from him..it seems he's completing her life or your the one who only fills dougs short comings that she feels for him..if she loves you enough she'll give her effort not to hurt you or even let you feel what your feeling right now towards their relationship..why cant she tell him that she's going to get married to you..thats the main point..she wants to have the both of you..whos the option in the picture?nobody knows..only she does..if she cant adjust into that and you really love her,be a saint and enjoy the pain as long as you live with her..love yourself aswell,as you get tired of it you need to let go off the rope ..dont prolong the agony..thens you'll she who is going to choose..love you and not hurt you that way or stay making friends with doug..thats if they were only just really friend.well my girl's beau knows that we'r just friends..same thing..^

[Rollerderby]

But folks, until about a year ago I never knew what it was to have a love so intense and overwhelming – until a year ago I thought all those poems were pure slush. But now I’ve truly “fallen in love” with a beautiful woman. Never even knew such a love existed! And as I share these thoughts and emotions, I see what you are all saying all too clearly, and DAMN! this is hard! I know Kay does love me, but as Giga and Bluesummer share, her heart does seem to belong to Doug. As I said, I’m afraid I’d always be living in his shadow.

I find myself agreeing with Anomaly that I need to accept Kay’s relationship with Doug as an old friendship, but as I shared further I do emphatically agree with Giga and Bluesummer. They speak right to the heart of the issue, and they help me see why I get so jealous..

So you love her with all this intense passionate love, and yet Doug has loved her the best out of all her relationships. That sucks.
You know, there was another post on this forum about talking too much about past relationships, and that they signify one of two things; 1.) If they talk about their exes at all, in a negative or postive way too often, they probably aren't over it. If they are still seeing their ex, you can bet they aren't over it. 2.) It takes a stronger person than most to not feel insecure about all the talk.

And in your case, Kay seems to be going out of her way to make you feel insecure. Why the hell would she even bring up what's true, if it could hurt you? Somethings are best left unsaid. The older you get, the more life experiences you have, but thats why you come here to talk. So you don't have to talk all about it with the new people.

She's still in love with him, should have married him but didn't because of her crisis and/or was being a little too picky about his smoking. You don't want to marry a woman who doesn't put you first in her life. Sit down and have a talk with her and tell her what you're feeling. This is not a total platonic relationship. Don't give her an ultimatum, just let it be known that her actions with him are making the choices for you clear.