Wishing Someone Smacked Me Six Months Ago: Update & Lessons Learned

[ChrisMac]

So some of you may remember my story, details here:

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/threads/63798-Lessons-I-Wish-Someone-Smacked-Into-Me-Six-Months-Ago[/url]

Last fall I had an intense LDR with this girl "Ella" who I'd met while living in Berlin last summer, and we got to be crazy about each other, seeing each other most weekends and spending two separate weeks together just before Christmas. I was finishing up my grad program in another city in December, and then had six weeks back home in North America packing and getting my visa before moving to start full time at a great job I'd landed in Berlin where Ella was. I would have gone for the job there if she didn't exist, but the fact that she was there waiting was frosting on the life-cake.

Ella told me this was longer than she'd ever waited for a guy but she wanted to do it, and we were okay the whole period with the exception of her at one point telling me her ex-boyfriend had started trying like mad to get her back... she was "confused". I told her she needed to make a choice, and if it was me cut him off completely, as we couldn't start anything real if she was still talking to him. Ella said she agreed, and would cut him off completely.

At the start of February I returned to her city to start my new life and found she had changed radically. All the warmth and emotion was gone, and within five days, on Valentine's, she said we should break up, all her feelings -- "that spark" -- was gone, and she didn't know why, but we couldn't be together until she found it again. So I told Ella I understand, I cared for her but wanted her to be happy, she clearly has problems to sort out, but I wished her the best, kissed her on the cheek, and walked away.

Over the next three weeks she just sent cute nothing messages every day, and at the end of the month I got a FB message saying just "I really miss you". A day later I replied just saying "I know the feeling". Five days later, Ella messages saying what a beautiful day it is, and would I get coffee with her sometime?

We start again

All that was in my last thread. So now what happened. Well, we ended up getting drinks together a few times, and each time Ella wanted to know if I still carried feelings for her, and could I trust her again. I told her it was difficult, as I still don't know *why* her feelings just suddenly changed, but that yes, of course there were still feelings. I just wanted to take things slow, and needed her to find a way to convince me that something that random wouldn't happen again. Each time she agreed she'd do everything she could to make me trust her, and we'd end up kissing passionately on the streets for a few hours before I'd walk her to the train home. Neither of us was ready to go home together.

The first truth

After the third time, we had a date planned for Sunday night, this one meant to be the first real, "back together" one, but Saturday night while I'm surfing Facebook, her best friend from home, Alice messages me. I'd met Alice when she was visiting Ella over Christmas. We quite liked each other, and Alice, who was married and had a daughter, had back then told me I was easily the best boyfriend Ella had ever had, and was pretty sure I was The One. Nice of her to say that early, but whatever.

So Alice pops up on Facebook, asks whether Ella and I are back together. "I'm not sure yet", I reply. "I *think* so but we're gonna see tomorrow". Alice then tells me whether I know that Ella is with her ex, Dave, the guy who'd been trying to get her back. "WHAT?!" I say. "WAS with or IS with?" Alice's English isn't too good, but she says something "is with now". I can't tell if she means "is dating" or "is the same room as" or what, but I message Ella and tell her we need to talk tonight, not tomorrow, will only take 30 minutes. She's surprised, says she was gonna get dinner with her friend and the friend's b/f, but will see.

While she's checking, Alice pops back up on FB saying "Did you just tell her what I said?? She's demanding to know if I told you about Dave, and begging me not to tell you that she's with him". This makes me grit my teeth, but I promise Alice I won't tattle on her. Ella comes back and says it's fine, we can meet.

So I go meet up with Ella and we grab a cocktail in a decent place, and she's smiling and huggy but looking nervous and wants to know what I have to tell her. Says she thinks I'm going to tell her that I'm seeing someone and this can't work after all. I say no, but ask her calmly... "So did you start dating Dave again right after we broke up?". She looks surprised, wanting to know who told me this. Not wanting to get Alice in trouble, I tell her I only knew because Dave had been stalking my blog 2-3 times a day right up until the day we broke up, then never visited again, which made me sure you guys were at least talking. This was also true.

Looking relieved, she laughs, and says okay, yes, she had been confused by him working so hard to get him back that she'd gone back to him briefly, but then when back together she realised that she'd grown and changed, and he wouldn't make her happy like I did, and she wanted back what we once had. I told her that we can't have back what we once had, we could only have something new, but that while I can understand needing to know if feelings are still there for an ex, I HAD to be sure it was over between the two of them for me to keep trying. She held my hand and swore it was, that she only wanted me, and I ended up forgiving her and saying let's do this then. We have a long makeout session in the rain and I again walk her back to the train.

Back together

So the next four weeks go on like this, with us meeting up 2-3 times a week. Sometimes she stays over at my place, sometimes she just goes home. Sometimes it's passion and fun and laughter like old times, sometimes it's weird and she's checking her phone too often, hiding the view of it from me, taking her bag with her to the bathroom every time she goes. I know I don't trust her still, and I hate that, as usually I'm trusting as hell, and think maybe I'm just not over her breaking up with me. I do my best to be my usual funny, supportive self, and most of the time it's fine.

At the end of March I have to fly abroad for my school's graduation ceremony, which she couldn't afford to come to, but we sleep together the night before I g and she demands that I "be good", but to have a great time. That Saturday she says she's biking around the city with "friends", people she knows from work. I check Facebook the next day and see that a girl who is mutual friends with her and Dave has posted on her Wall saying "such a great time last night, recovering now from those martinis!" and see that Dave -- who's still FB friends with her -- has "Liked" this post. When Ella and I talk later I bring this up, and she says I'm being paranoid, "They're just friends I met through Dave last year and don't want to lose, we had a good time but he wasn't there." I start to feel like I'm going insane.

The end

The weekend after I get back everything back to its highs and lows. Saturday we go to a show and a club, and it's passionate but she has to go home on the train as she's "feeling pressured". Sunday we spend the day walking in the park and cook dinner at my place and she spends the night and it's like old times. Weds we have a date planned but that afternoon she cancels it, saying her friend Peter has gotten her a job interview that evening to be a hostess at his club, and can't put it off as the manager is going away for Easter Weekend. Sighing, I say hey, jobs are most important, go, good luck. The next day she calls to say that the job was awful but she and Peter afterward found three great bars she needs to show me sometime.

That night I go see Hunger Games alone (decent flickr), and walking out I get another message from Alice. "Hey you. Are you still seeing Ella?" I say that I think so, and she drops the bomb. "Okay, then I need to tell you that Peter just messaged me to tell me that Ella was there with Dave. Not only that, but she's living with him." By then I was almost not surprised, but thanked her for the info. I knew she must be telling the truth as she was six hours away and had no reason to lie, but it was still pretty incredible that someone could lie for this long, this bad. Alice says she doesn't want Ella in her house or near her children anymore.

The next day I had lunch planned with Ella, who was leaving that night for a four-day weekend back in her home country in Eastern Europe. An old friend had offered to do the 14-hour drive there, and depressed about her job and the rest she wanted to see her family. So we get lunch, and Ella's all smiles and kisses, wanting to know about the week, and on our second glass of wine I ask her if she was with Dave on Wednesday during the "job interview". Looking shocked again, she demands to know how I know that, who told me this, almost yelling, and I just repeatedly ask her if it's true. "NO!" she yells, "WHO TOLD YOU THAT?!".

I'm feeling sick but want to just back her into a corner so we can be done with this mess, and knowing that Ella was dead to Alice, I tell her that Peter told Alice who told me. Ella gets so angry that she literally crushes the wine glass in her hand. She starts bleeding, and has to go to the bathroom to clean up. Like out of a movie, the waitress comes up and says "So I expect you'll be wanting your check?"

Ella comes back furious, going on and on about fake friends, and has to go home because her phone is dead and all she wants to do is delete Alice and Peter from her life for lying about her, but she still wants to meet up later before she goes on her trip. We meet up around 7, and despite first looking like she was going to end everything, she gets emotional and touchy again, and says that all her friends agree that Alice must have developed a crush on me back in December, and was saying all of this just to break us up. Right right, I'm sure that's it, I say. Ella suggests that while she's gone we each write one thing we're gonna do to make the other person trust us more, which is so creative and positive I'm a little surprised. Finally she has to go get her ride and I see her off.

She leaves

All weekend she texts me: "I'm two hours from my home country!!", "We just pulled over for lunch, okay place!" "Just got in, so great to see my mom, wish you were here", "Can't wait to see my dad tomorrow". But she always has to go in a few minutes. Finally, because I need to know, I did a stalker thing and Monday morning I sent her a link to a funny photo I'd posted on my blog, to which she immediately replied "Love it!! ". I solemnly went and checked my blog stats, and yep... there's a visit from her iPhone... and she hasn't left our city... and she's at her ex's. She was staying with him all weekend.

Next day I got up, and sick of the games finally, sent her a quick message telling her I hope she finds what she's looking for, and delete and block her off my phone, Facebook, everything. She writes back by SMS that she wishes me well, I'll always have a special place in her heart, and then another an hour later saying "F#%&, I'm really gonna miss you. I hope you come find me one day and we can be friends."

Since then I've had no contact with her except for a mutual friend saying she briefly updated her Facebook profile pic to be a phone of her and Dave hugging, then changed it back the same day. It's now been exactly five weeks since the deletion, and I feel a little awful that I never told her that I knew everything, never unloaded all the anger, never found out why she needed to play this sick game and lie for two whole months while I was trying to adjust to life in a new place.

If you read that whole damn thing, thanks for your patience. I'm still not over this crap, and it's beating me up thinking the same thing might happen with the next girl. Why the hell would someone do all this? And how can I make sure I don't let it happen again?

[smackie9]

There is no manual for love and relationships....the shit just happens. One thing tho, when you see a red flag or two, follow your gut instinct not their lies. You had enough evidence to back off a long time ago.

You got off easy...that poor shelp of a ex BF of hers is the biggest sucker...who knows how many other times she has cheating on him and will cheat on down the road. Trust me she will end up very alone one day...just don't answer any of her calls when that happens.

[ChrisMac]

There is no manual for love and relationships....the shit just happens. One thing tho, when you see a red flag or two, follow your gut instinct not their lies. You had enough evidence to back off a long time ago.

That's what I keep trying to figure out... where should that breaking point have been if not there at the end? When Alice told me the first time? She was out of the country, her English was awful, and Ella swore up and down that it was over. And everything after that was indeed a red flag but it drove me nuts that I never had a definite "bail out" sign that would have made me pull the trigger sooner. Sometimes you want real, inarguable proof... and you just aren't going to get it.

[TeeJay19]

The first red flag was when she dumped you 5 days after you got the country. I don't really know why you'd take her back after that, but that's just me.

The next red flag was definitely when Alice told you the first time. Good English or not she made it pretty clear what was going on. And if there was any confusion you could have followed up with her, or asked one of her other friends what was going on.

Don't feel bad, people do stupid things when they're in love or infatuated with someone. It happens to everyone. Don't dwell on it too much. Just learn from your mistakes and move on.

[ChrisMac]

The first red flag was when she dumped you 5 days after you got the country. I don't really know why you'd take her back after that, but that's just me.

Oh, I get where the red flags were. But I was asking where the breaking point was. The reason I didn't walk away was because she never gave a reason, just said she felt "different... and you coming here was a lot of pressure for me at first!". When she came back, she was begging and crying and I had nothing to hold over her. I didn't cave and go back to her immediately but after three dates of begging I just couldn't find enough anger in me to say no when I couldn't find anything she'd really done wrong.

The next red flag was definitely when Alice told you the first time. Good English or not she made it pretty clear what was going on. And if there was any confusion you could have followed up with her, or asked one of her other friends what was going on.

She had one other friend in the city I knew and that was it. She had killed all her other relationships. (Another red flag.) This friend I only saw once, but she seemed happy for us. Supportive even. Right before we got back together the friend told me to "if you still care for her, just trust Ella and everything will work out". I think Ella probably lied to her too about what was going on, at least in the beginning, then later told a sob story where she "realized she had feelings for Dave all along, but need to see where it goes with Chris", and kept the friend still on her side. This friend and Alice later ended up having a huge public blowup on Facebook over "the nature of loyalty and true friendship". The friend loyal to Ella claimed a true friend never reveals their friend's secrets, while Alice said true friends don't make each other lie -- that lies are toxic and their poison destroys everything. This at least was amusing.

I still wonder if there wasn't a window in there somewhere where Ella might have really dumped the ex and committed to me but I blew it with the suspicion. But no matter, even if I'd won the competition and still had her today I'd know I'd be worse off than I am now alone, and at some point would be going through all this anyway.

Don't feel bad, people do stupid things when they're in love or infatuated with someone. It happens to everyone. Don't dwell on it too much. Just learn from your mistakes and move on.

Trying.

[Jason278]

Thanks for your post

[KingZ]

Good luck in Boston.

[Jason278]

Thanks for your post

[ChrisMac]

Good luck in Boston.

Huh? Where'd that come from?

[smackie9]

For me the breaking point would have been when she told you about her ex trying like mad to get her back and she response to that as feeling "confused". That right there would have been it for me, because with LDR's, by you not being right there all the time, she can pretty much get away with anything...he wasn't trying to get her back I bet money on it she was seeing him again. She wanted to cover it up by claiming she was a victim of him pursuing her and it was messing with her feelings. She is one great manipulator. Once you went along with her BS story she knew she had you easily swayed, so she took advantage of that....she played you......nasty. I wonder how long she would have been able to get away with it, if her friend didn't tell you.

[ChrisMac]

For me the breaking point would have been when she told you about her ex trying like mad to get her back and she response to that as feeling "confused". That right there would have been it for me, because with LDR's, by you not being right there all the time, she can pretty much get away with anything...he wasn't trying to get her back I bet money on it she was seeing him again. She wanted to cover it up by claiming she was a victim of him pursuing her and it was messing with her feelings. She is one great manipulator. Once you went along with her BS story she knew she had you easily swayed, so she took advantage of that....she played you......nasty. I wonder how long she would have been able to get away with it, if her friend didn't tell you.

You're dead on, Smackie. I was just thinking today that the best time to have manned up, said "good luck" and walked away was when she was "confused". When Alice told me she was living with him, she also said Ella had slept with him back then. I should have realised then what "confused" really means.

Sigh. Whatever hurts you makes you stronger. I should have had the confidence and pride to want better than that, but just moved to a new place, hoped too much my instincts were wrong, and paid the price. Won't happen again. I pray it doesn't have to.

[steviej]

Actually, everything went exactly for the best. To jump out of the relationship early would have left you with too many doubts, especially as she was so sincere with her lies. You had to find out the truth for definite in order to give you the strength to stick to your conviction to dump her.
Nice move by the way with the ip tracking
You were lucky that alice was on your side, this could have turned out a lot worse without her help!

[ChrisMac]

Yeah, I think it worked out as best as it could given my lack of experience with girls of this type. I can look back and know that at least at the end I handled it well deleting her without any more waffling or begging.

However, given how much it sucked to go through at the time, if I ever hear "I'm confused" again I'm simply going to say "Hey, that's cool, I get that you're dealing with some things, but I don't need to be around while you work out your confusion, so good luck with that. Give me a ring if you ever figure it out."

It's like your quote says. There are times to fight for the things you believe in. If I meet an amazing woman and have feelings for her I'm gonna fight for her with all I've got. But if the problem isn't her being sure about me but rather her not sure about me vs. another guy, I'm out. That's not a fight I'm intersted in. I hope that's fair.

[smackie9]

If I meet an amazing woman and have feelings for her I'm gonna fight for her with all I've got.

No because this is what got you into trouble in the first place. Fighting for them don't make you a challenge to them so they lose interest. If you make yourself less available you become more desirable to them. They will come chasing after you.....they should be fighting for you if you are worth it to them....if not them you saved yourself a lot of bull shi t.

But if the problem isn't her being sure about me

Yes that is still a problem. You don't want to go back to begging, turning into a wuss and get your heart trampled again on because that's what is going to happen. People's feeling will change and realize that are not into you like they thought.....don't push or force them into a relationship they have decided they don't want to be in. If they have uncertainty, then let them go figure it out on their own. If you don't start making yourself priority one, the same shi t is going to bite you in the ass.

[ChrisMac]

Maybe that was bad wording. No worries at all on finding the right push/pull balance. I've now had four relationships that lasted more than two months, and with the first three there was never a question of trust. We were in love, but things didn't work out for one reason or another. First one -- we were just young, but dated all through college and became different people and grew apart. Second -- she was depressed and after two years of counseling and trying to help I finally had to let go. Third -- she was foreign and after two years living together and two years LDR we finally had to break it off as I couldn't find a way to get back to her nor she with me.

With none of them, though, was neediness or "being a challenge to her" a problem. We were balanced, mutually giving, no risk of any cheating or doormat syndrome. This one just took me unawares since due to the LDR I didn't see what she was really like until it was too late. No worries, with the next one I'm not at risk to overgive again. If anything, I only worry that I'll be too reserved.