Long story and atypical situation...

[Geico Pig]

First post. I'm not even sure where to begin on this...

Basically, I met this girl about 13 years ago. We were both young, but it was clear that there was an attraction/chemistry between us from the beginning. However, after dating very briefly, we were forced to stop due to job-related issues by our bosses. We both went our separate ways and went on with our lives, both eventually finding someone else and other jobs.

A couple of years later, we ran into each other and both of us were again single. We began dating and soon, we were starting over again and things were wonderful. I don't think we ever had a real fight. I've dated many, many women, and I can honestly say that this woman was everything I always wanted. Beautiful, intelligent, funny, etc. All of my other girlfriends paled in comparison. We were so very happy.

So, it came as quite a blow when she got diagnosed with breast cancer. From there, things went a bit downhill. The first round of chemotherapy and radiation did not work and her psychological well-being deteriorated. In fact, rather than deal with everything, she just pushed me out of her life altogether and refused to speak with me... or anyone, for that matter. For a long time, I thought I had done something wrong, but eventually I came to realize that it had nothing to do with anything I did. So, after trying for months to get her to see or talk to me with a random phone call now and then, I accepted that she was gone and went on with my life. I had no choice.

About a year ago (three years later), she contacted me. We talked for a long time one summer night and it was almost like not even a day had passed. She explained that she had emotionally shut down during the treatments and deeply regretted the way things happened and that she was sorry, but missed me and wanted me back in her life. However, she had ended up getting a double mastectomy and her self-esteem had plummeted to the lowest of lows. She had a new boyfriend, but described the relationship as "toxic" and he was consistently verbally abusive to her. She wasn't really the same person anymore, but I felt she could be...The things is, I was still angry and bitter about the whole thing and started ignoring her when she called. She got upset with me and eventually gave up on trying to talk to me.

So, this past summer, my anger had subsided and I didn't want things to end on a bad note, so I sent her an e-mail telling her that I was sorry for treating her badly and wished her luck in the future. She still wanted to talk, so she got in contact again. After an obligatory hashing out our differences and our very first fight, we've regained our friendship through forgiveness. She's still in her "toxic" relationship. At first, that didn't bother me, but more recently, old feelings have been starting to surface as with me back in her life, she seemed to be getting her self-esteem back and was resembling the person I fell in love with...because, according to her, I always make her happy. I informed her of how I felt and told her that I was going to back away until she decided she wanted to get rid of him or I find someone new. I told her that we could always be friends, but that I'm not going to accept the way things are now. She still wants me around...but hasn't changed anything. Nothing's awkward, but she just seems confused.

Since then, I've been out with several women, and just as before, I can't seem to connect with them. People have suggested "no contact", but that's not a viable option for me. I just don't see that working. Both of us were pretty miserable before we reconnected and people on both sides have said that we both seem happier. There's a long history here and other factors which I didn't mention. So, what do you guys think, outside of a "no contact" scenario? Should I just be patient? Just continue to search elsewhere even though I'm tired of dating? Or just resign myself to just being her friend when I believe she still feels more?

[smackie9]

She has gone through a lot and it has mentally as well as physically scared her for life. She has lost her self esteem and self worth. That is why she has gotten into this toxic relationship.
I'm guessing she is feeling unworthy of your friendship, but does desire something positive in her life. She is quite mentally fragile still, so your support is very much needed. As for a future relationship. well who knows. It could go either way. I wouldn't put your dating life on hold for her, that would be silly.

[Geico Pig]

Yeah, I know she needs the support, which is why I ruled out the "no contact" scenario...and honestly, I was unhappier without her in my life than I am just being friends, so although I have a bad day every now and then, for the most part, I'm keeping busy and spending time with others.

I know better than to put my dating life on hold, but truth be told, I've always been the type of guy who only dates when he finds someone interesting enough to ask out...not just to date for the sake of dating, which is kind of what I feel like I'm doing. Shouldn't I just be doing my normal routine rather than altering it because I'm trying a little too hard to move on?

But, thanks for your answer. I didn't know if I was stupid for hanging around and trying to be friends or not when I know it's going to hurt me at times.

[carlosaugustine]

Hey Geico,

I can't say for sure what is going on from just reading your post and not having all the information, but I've seen situations similar to this many times.

Many women tend to be attracted to toxic men because they display a certain "machismo" that is very magnetic to women. Sadly, the really nice guys get passed over because they don't know how to portray the kind of masculinity that women are attracted to. As a result, the most obnoxious men have no problem finding women because they are competing with guys who have been metrosexualized and feminized by the culture.

I'm not saying this is you. What I am saying is that you need to figure out how to make yourself attractive to her.

I think there is definitely still a chance for you to get back with her. The toxic relationship she currently has is likely based on a certain "chemistry" she has with this other guy. Sooner or later, this chemistry will explode and she will look for another "macho" guy who is also toxic. You need to change this pattern.

It might be time for you to assess yourself in a constructive way to figure out what you can do to appear more attractive to her? Some of the most impressive men in history have an incredible charisma. You might want to try to learn more about them and how you can apply their characteristics to yourself? I don't know. That is what I would do.

The first thing you need to do is to stop being an amateur counselor to her every time she has a problem with toxic guy, or everything else in her life, if that is what is happening.

If you love her, you have expectations for her. And she should have some expectations for herself.

Require that she live up to at least some of them.

In particular, make it clear to her that she would not have so many difficulties if she would get rid of the obnoxious asshole that seems to be dragging her down. And leave it at that.

Then, don't be available to her at every whim. She's using you for the relationship and support and using him for the sex and entertainment. Stop playing that game.

You don't need to disappear, just learn to be firm and confident in everything that you do. Stop letting toxic guy make you do all the heavy lifting for her.

Expect her to live up to her value as an extremely important person who has an unrepeatable role to play in life. Be her support for that and nothing else. Don't feed her need to complain to you about everything that is wrong.

In particular, you need to take control of the situation until she can get un-confused. Don't be too concerned if she gives the outward appearance of not liking you telling her how it is. This is what she needs right now.

Be bold. Try something like this.

You: "Hey, I want to catch a movie with you tonite, so let's go to the 7pm flick at the Tivoli and then go for a nice dinner."
Her: "No, I can't. I'm supposed to go watch toxic guy play in his volleyball league at the local tavern where he makes an ass out of himself with all his douche bag friends."
You: "Well, I'm going to the movies and dinner and I want you to come with me. Tell toxic guy he can play ball on his own. He will get over it.
Just in case...
Her:"No, I'm supposed to get with toxic guy and I don't want to go to the movies."
You:"Okay, suit yourself. Barb (someone she doesn't know) said she was going to the movies too, so I'll hook up with her. See ya."

See what happens.

Inevitably, if she goes with toxic guy, she won't have as good a time as if she went with you because the spotlight is always on......you guessed it....toxic guy. She'll wonder how you and Barb are doing.

I'm on your side.

[Geico Pig]

I get what you're saying, but I don't really think the problem is that she's not attracted to me. After 4 years, it was her who came looking for me, not the other way around. I had moved on with my life. There's still feelings there. She's admitted as much. To be perfectly honest, I think she's gradually coming around as I have been playing a few games with her (I don't see any other option - don't hate the player, hate the game), i. e. disappearing at times for weeks, etc. I feel that in order for her to want out of the relationship, I have to let her live in it for a while in order for her to be miserable and realize what she's missing when I'm not around...but she already had four years to think about it, too...

While I am a nice guy, I don't consider myself one of these guys who is a doormat. I have never had any problem getting women to be attracted to me. I do agree with you about the counselor thing. A month or two back, I told her that if she needed an emotional tampon, she was looking in the wrong place. I have made it clear what I want and I think it's going to take some time for her to know that I really mean it. Yeah, she disappeared on me and broke my heart, but I played some games a year ago myself when she came back. I have every confidence that I'll get her back, but it won't be an overnight deal. It may take months or even longer unless I find someone new in the meantime. They briefly broke up recently (so close, yet so far) and when she went back to him, I cut her off of any conversation for about a month. Since we reconnected after that fight, I informed her that we wouldn't be discussing him anymore. I know her friends don't like him and are trying to get her to get rid of him....I think they're doing for me what I need to be done...but I can't be sure because we don't discuss him...and to be honest, he didn't come up much before, just one bad time when I called at the wrong time while she was crying. She broke down and told me the whole story about the relationship during one convo. When we talk, it's usually fun conversation and just like old times unless one of us is having issues (and we both have had family problems lately having nothing to do with Toxic Guy).

I've been doing things like girl name-dropping and hanging out with other girls, and while I have no intention of dating these girls because they're just friends I'm not really attracted to, she doesn't have to know that Besides, it's not a pattern thing with her. She usually goes for nice guys, but feels like after the illness and losing her breasts that she is being forced to settle for whatever she can get. I think my big problem is differentiating between actual support and emotional tampon. There's a fine line there and I believe I should be a friend, too, but not involved in some portions of her life. Please tell me if I'm wrong. Like all confident guys, I do have my bad days, but I've been using those days as "no contact" days...Patience is key, IMO...