A breakup story, that's all

[Petard]

I wonder if people read really long posts in forums like this. I'm going to post my story in case anyone cares to read it. I am not really seeking advice, but writing about it helps me wrap my head around it; I'm alone right now and I don't really have options at the moment to hang out with anyone, so writing to a group of anonymous strangers is the next best thing. This will not be a short read, although I'm trying to keep out the irrelevant details.

I met her about 3.5 years ago at a sort of annual holiday party my friends put on. She was seeing someone at the time long distance, so bravely I pursued her and after about 3 months, she had broken up with him to be with me. Keep in mind, she was seeing two guys at the same time, I mention that for purposes of moral high ground that will come up later. It was great for a while but somewhere along the line I started to take her for granted. I didn't really make an effort to, well, make an effort, and I was very selfish and even somewhat controlling. Not in a nefarious way, but more like if I made myself seem helpless, she'd iron my shirts or something. God, that sounds terrible to read that. Over time I'd find reasons to be irritated by things she did, and obviously she found things about me. But she really stuck with it, and tried to make it work. Ultimately though we decided to break up. And we stayed friends.

I rebounded with a former coworker, which lasted a couple of months. During that, I started to have feelings for my ex. So my ex and I had a heart-to-heart one night, and we went out, and talked more, and finally she made the decision to get back together with me. Of course I dumped the other girl so that I could pursue all of this.

Unfortunately I wasn't ready for this. I thought I was. I really wanted it at the time. But in retrospect I think I was just looking to fill the void back with what had been missing. I had been lucky to rebound so quickly with that other girl. But that gave me no time to really reflect or try a bona fide new relationship. So now back together with my ex, things were great for a while, and then of course the same problems began to pop up. The ones I promised her wouldn't happen again. I realized that I wanted to break up with her, but part of me wanted to try and make it work and also I didn't want to see her hurt; I also didn't want her to hate me. All considerations that shouldn't have come into play, but what can I say, I was weak. Really weak, actually, because one night after a very long day of drinking I almost slept with another girl. I confessed it the next day. I've read about how confessions are more about yourself than the other person, but again, I was weak. But although she was mad, she forgave me. I really did appreciate that, but sadly it didn't fix my feelings for her. I resolved to break up with her -- I was going to do it after this trip that she was unable to go on. I would have done it before, but it was not only around Valentine's Day but also the anniversary of our first breakup, I figured that was just being cruel. I might have been procrastinating too, who knows. Anyway, on this trip, I was feeling like I was kind of done with the relationship, even though it wasn't official. I made out with a girl there. I recorded all of this in a journal.

The thing about journals is, someone will always find it and read it. And naturally, she found it and read it. When she told me about that, it sort of instantly broke us up. She was angry about what she read, and I was angry that she invaded my privacy. So we were mutually angry at each other for a long time. I wanted to never see her again. After a couple of months I wanted to let go of the anger, and she did too, so we got together and talked. We calmly discussed the breakup, and both came to terms with it. We did not get back together, and I don't think either of us wanted to. I was ready from there to just have her as a peripheral friend. Then she drops a bomb that she has taken a friend of mine as her roommate. She wasn't sleeping with him or anything, but I had wanted clean separation. Isn't that kind of the expectation when you break up with someone? You want the new person in their life to be completely unrelated to you ... otherwise, it just causes problems. With them being roommates, that was very not clean. I was upset at her for this, and she knew I would be, but I figured, well, nothing I can do about it.

So months went on, occasionally I'd see her, we'd hang out, basically based on the friendship that we'd always had. We'd have less and less to talk about each time though, because it was just weird for me that she was living with a friend of mine. I started seeing another girl, and I thought, well now I don't need to worry about my ex seeing someone new before I did. While I was developing a relationship with the new girl, I started to think about all the things that I did wrong with my ex, and if I ever acted that way with a new girl, things would never work out. Some of my behavior with my ex was really reprehensible. So with this new girl I learned a lot about myself. I guess sometimes you don't have perspective until you're on the outside, in a different environment. And I'd find myself thinking, there are some nice things about this new girl that the old girl didn't have. I suppose that's natural.

The new relationship didn't work out, but I did occasionally see other girls after that, nothing serious though. I noticed over the last couple of months that e-mails and texts from my ex had really dropped off. I figured she was seeing someone, and I was actually happy about that thought. One time I asked if she wanted to hang out, and she said she had something to talk to me about. So she told me she was seeing someone. It was no big deal at all, it was a painless exchange. I had moved on, she had moved on, nothing wrong there. She had thought I was going to get mad about it.

Then one night I was at a bar with my friend, who is her roommate. I'm not sure what motivated him to tell me this, but he revealed who it was that she was seeing. Do you remember the holiday party that I mentioned I met her at? Well it's been at my place the last couple of years. And a few days before this party I met this friend of a friend, and although I thought he was kind of a tool, I generously invited him to the party. And I also invited my ex to the party, even if it would generate rumors we were back together, which I strictly had no interest in. So, it was at this party that they met, and they've been seeing each other for three months or so.

When I heard this, I was immediately enraged. I was more mad than I had ever remembered being. Part of it was the fact that she again did not go the clean-break route. She went for a guy that is loosely in my social circle, and concealed it from me knowing I'd have a problem with it. I was also mad that this guy went after the ex of a guy who invited him to the party ... in my mind, that's an epic party foul. But worst of all was the fact that I was responsible for them meeting! What a horrible irony!

I sent her an angry drunk text, never a good thing. The next day I was still mad and sent her another text. Still not a good thing. She didn't respond. I wanted to get down to the bottom of why I was so mad. I'm normally a very laid-back person, but man, I was in another world at that moment. So I just pondered and pondered and pondered. The realization I came to was that you don't get that mad at someone unless you care about them a lot.

So I had to figure that whole thing out, because for the year since we had broken up, I thought I was completely over her. I thought more and more about it, and I realized that all the little things that annoyed me about her, I loved those things. And I thought about all the ways I had been inconsiderate toward her, and how I wanted to fix all of that. I realized, well, I love her. And I imagined all the things that would happen if I committed to her and committed to the relationship, and my mind was in the clouds. I had all these great ideas.

I finally managed to get her to respond to me. I told her I had something very important to tell her, because when you tell someone you love them, it has to be in person. I was very insistent about this, but she said no, steadfastly. I had hurt her enough with my angry texts that she did not want to see me in person. There was a certain aspect to her phrasing that made me think she didn't want to give me the chance to sway her emotions in person, which I have done in the past. Eventually I relented because she was just getting more and more irritated. So I sent her an e-mail that I had written previously to vent my thoughts, it was just a very clear and concise explanation of what was going on in my head. I also had assembled a list of several hundred things I liked about her, because I had never really told her things I liked about her that much. I thought that might impress her. I mean, who wouldn't want to read hundreds of reasons they're a great person? She responded, and said a lot of what you'd expect ... I'm with someone I like, we're not a good match, all the things anyone in a new relationship would say. But one thing that stuck out was that she said it was stupid to think that we'd change. By saying that, at least she showed that she entertained the notion of getting back together. But here's the thing. I don't need her to change. But I want to change -- I have changed a lot already -- and I want to prove to her that I want to give her all the things I never did. This didn't come out of loneliness, this didn't come out of jealousy, it came out of a complete and thorough self-examination.

And that's essentially where we left it. I told her I love her, both in the e-mail and in a very heartfelt text (this was all transpiring while I was at work). The only complicating matter here is that I plan to take over her apartment when she moves out, so we still have to talk about that, completely outside of any of the above. But that's it, the final words really exchanged between us were about how much I loved her.*

But anyway, that's my story. I've never told someone I loved them, or that they're my best friend, but I did both those things with her, so it's quite painful to have to deal with the fact that that basically means nothing at the moment. It's also painful to walk through my living room every day and know that that's where they met. If I want even a slight chance, I have to wait until this new relationship expires. And who knows how long that will go on? It's dumb to hang on that long. I want to do all the things you're supposed to do ... I'm keeping no contact (outside of the apartment arrangement), I'm trying not to be alone, I'm walking a lot, I'm just trying to accept the situation and move forward. But man does that ever take time, and it really effing stings to think about those two together. It's mainly why I'm writing here. It's nice to see that others are having similar problems.

I still dearly want another chance with her, but I know what's going against me. If I had read the above, I might be inclined to think, jesus, you had two chances, you blew both of them pretty badly, and you really just need to give up and start fresh with someone new, applying all these things you've learned about yourself. I'm not the type to give up though. I will try and meet other girls, certainly, because that's the "healthy" thing to do. But I know I have a foundation with this girl that would be very hard to establish with someone else. I want her to be happy, even if that relationship she's in now is destroying me. I also accept that I get what I deserve. I've broken her heart twice, and it's probably time I take my turn. I can't justify moping about it. But I can certainly be pissed at myself for shooting myself in the foot so many times. I would be so grateful for one more chance.

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. I'm not looking for advice, but if you have anything you feel like adding, that's fine.

* I have another thread about a friend's theory on what this might mean.

[cmacattack1]

Your story isn't actually that uncommon, and there are many long posts to read. Mine included. It was a little longer than yours and I pretty much had a laundry list of the shitty things I did. Bottom line is the same for me: I took her for granted and realized how much I cared after she dumped me. This of course was in the first couple months of the break up for me and it came off as pathetic and desperate and I pushed her into the arms of another guy. There are still dating today 5 months later. You thought you shot yourself in the foot pretty bad, eh buddy?

That's why no contact is important, especially in those crucial first couple months after a break up. You absolutely have to be on your own to sort your issues out and really reflect on what went wrong and why. While you are beating yourself up for being selfish and taking her for granted (surprisingly common), she played a part as well. Then when you think you have finally figured things out and come to the realization that you do not need them to be happy but want them in your life because they can make you more happy is when you can finally make the moves to reconcile.

I think you both got back together because you both felt lonely and you both wanted to fill that void. Just not enough time apart and without contact to really be on your own to think and actually make the necessary changes. Sorry, I know you already know this, it's what came to mind.

The fact that you found out that this guy was dating her kind of set you off a bit? Do you feel like you are finally losing her and this is what took it to click in your head? What makes you think that you really have changed from the person that she's used to? Do you have any examples in your everyday life that show this change? Just a few questions to ask yourself.

Trying to prove yourself to her doesn't really prove anything at all. You point to yourself and say "look at me, I'm different" doesn't really say much does it? When you undergo that change, it will be noticeable, especially by your ex who knows you intimately and probably better than almost anybody else in your life. The kind of behavior you are displaying might be digging up the hurt from the past relationship and pushing her away simultaneously. And the relationship she has with the new guy is young and most likely in their honeymoon phase where nothing can really go wrong. It might be a tough time for that right now.

You are an important part of your life and you will probably always have a piece of her. At the same time, you might have to try and not bring up the old relationship as a gateway to the new one. The one in the past is in the past for a reason, it failed. You cannot build off those pieces, even if you have hundreds of things you like about her. I'm sure she is very touched by it but it might be coming off as desperate. You have to want to start a new relationship and she will have to rediscover who she fell in love with in the first place. That's where the time apart thing comes in. You are improving yourself while things with the other guys don't work out. If this guy is a tool like you say, then logically they aren't going to last right? When they don't make it, that's when you are able to shine.

The reason why meeting other girls is "healthy" is because it reinforces the belief that you don't need her to be happy. If you aren't with her, you will be with somebody else. It might be difficult to find somebody that can fill her shoes, especially with her up on your pedestal right now. I say this because you are idolizing her and what you had, you don't want her to change, but you need to and are changing. It took two to break up your relationship and she was not perfect too. Understanding where she went wrong along with you will help you be more aware of problems that could occur in the future. Where you can recognize them before they become unmanageable.

Another thing about the desperation thing. You want to be back together. That's jumping the gun a bit. Enough time has passed where she has changed and where you have changed. Who knows if the new two of you are compatible? You should want to take her out and see if you have that compatibility. If you rush things too fast, you may find yourself in the same situation you were in the first two times.

[Petard]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response. I am truly sorry to hear that your girl is seeing someone else and that you helped cause that. I really feel for you.

Having a forum like this helps a lot as far as no contact. I also just write things out and see if I even have a point to make, or if I just want to talk with her again just to make myself feel good. One thing that is complicating this all is the apartment thing. I need to be in contact with her about that, but I made it clear with her that we are done talking relationship stuff, I won’t try and get in the way, and the apartment thing is the apartment thing –- that’s all.

The fact that she was dating someone new isn’t what set me off, but it was related. What really tripped the fuse was when I found out who it was, and knowing that they wouldn’t have met if it weren’t for me. I’ve replayed the night I first met him many times in my mind. Just don’t invite him! If I don’t do that, then at least the next guy she sees is someone I don’t know, and I can kind of file it away in a corner of my brain. Of course I’d never realize how much I love her, as I’ve recently realized, but what you don’t know can’t hurt you.

And yes, I am dreadfully worried about finally losing her. What makes me believe that I’ve changed is, well, several things. An example would be how I told a friend of mine all of this stuff. I never talked about my relationship with anyone, before, during, or after it. I’ve been opening up in a lot of ways to people about a number of things, because I no longer care how people are going to judge me for it. This was going on for a while before I ever had the epiphany about her. Me even reaching that epiphany was the result of a change in my thought processes, about how I try and get to the root of things that bother me, and turn them around into something positive. I appreciate your question, and believe me I’ve taken much time to think about it. I’ve made enough mistakes in the past based on emotion to know that I truly believe everything I am saying.

I know that if we ever did get back together, there would always be the possibility of falling back into old mindsets. That happened once before. I won’t know until we’re actually back together, but I know that if I ever let myself slip back to the old ways, I would never be able to live with myself, because I’d have proven I really can’t change. That’s especially important to me. And it took me a lot to tell her I love her. I can’t just say that and not back it up in every possible way.

That’s an excellent point about how I was digging up the hurt from the past relationship. I had not considered that. The thing is, I can tell her I’ve changed, but it’s impossible to show her I’ve changed without being with her. I mean, I’ve now told her all the things I like about her, which I never used to do. The best way I can show it right now is just by limiting contact. One terrible habit I had was always continuing an argument. By not trying to prove my points, and just giving her space, she’ll realize, I hope, that I’m willing to let things drop. I never used to just let things drop.

You’re right, it was definitely the worst possible time to tell her all this, she is definitely in the honeymoon phase. I knew this too, I mean, I knew I had no chance of her just dropping him right then and there. But I had to tell her anyway. And now she knows. The last things I told her, relationship-wise, was how much I love her and how much I’ve changed. I know that has to resonate with her. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from being with her, it is how to subtlely push her buttons. I know how to say things that will bounce around the back of her mind. For example, I got in the last word when we broke up the second time, and the final salvo I launched was pretty powerful … when we reconciled, she admitted that she couldn’t get the thought I planted out of her head for two weeks. Now it’s the exact opposite situation –- instead of telling her she’s no good and leaving her in an emotional ditch, she’s in a happy place and I told her I love her. We’ll see how it plays out.

I’ve said my peace about the old relationship with her. You make a good point –- a new one would have to start on its own merits. I would accentuate all the good things that we have in common, because that’s the foundation of any relationship. Start with that, build from there with new behaviors and attitudes. I see it actually as a throwback to the early stages of our relationship, before it ever derailed. Kind of like getting a chance to go back in time to set things right because you know what’s coming in the future.

I said that the guy was a tool. By that I meant he was kind of annoying to talk to, and he’s very effeminate. But he didn’t strike me as a guy who you typically imagine would be the type to do a girl harm. He seemed a quintessential “nice guy.” How that plays out, I don’t know, but I just wanted to clarify that. This is an irrelevant but funny/sad side note … both she and I thought this guy was gay when we met him. That was part of why I got so mad about it … losing your girl to another guy is one thing, losing her to a gay guy is something you can’t even process. I try to imagine the reasons they might break up, but I really have no idea, and it’s probably a waste of time to even think about. Is he a little too effeminate (her best friend is gay, after all)? Maybe he wants to move forward too quickly? Maybe his job gets in the way? Maybe it’s the age difference? I don’t know. I’m hoping for any and all of these things.

I did jump the gun about the relationship. It was a little overwhelming even for me. I just was trying to show her how badly I wanted to fix things. As I said, I knew it wouldn’t work. But at least now she knows how I feel.

One point I did make to her was that it is clear she is not over the pain of our relationship. She’s not dwelling on it, but I know she hasn’t moved past it despite her saying she has. This is based on things she has said, things she’s done. For example, one time we were both at this bar we’d go to, and this girl I was seeing called me, and this was while my ex was seeing this new guy. My ex grabbed the phone and kept asking me who it was. Kind of playfully but still. Who does that? She wouldn’t do that unless she were not completely over me. Also, she refused to see me in person after the big to-do recently. If she were totally over me, she would not feel the slightest bit of guilt over seeing me in person. Another thing, she told me she was really hurt by the angry texts I sent her. As with me … you don’t get that hurt unless you care a lot. So given all that and more, I told her she was not over it, and given the fact that she knows that I’m the reason those two met, I will always be one degree of separation away whenever she thinks about her new relationship. And I told her if she’s ever ready to talk about it, she knows where to find me.

Thanks again for the post, you’ve given me much to think about, and it has made me feel a little better. Every day I feel a few percent better but it’s salt in the wound every time I think of them doing something together. The painful slog forward continues …

[Petard]

I've been doing great with the no contact, in fact, I renamed her on my phone as DO NOT CONTACT, but as I mentioned, she and I do need to talk with each other about the apartment that I'm taking over from her.

So in an e-mail thread we have going about the apartment, today she drops the bomb that she's moving in with the guy she's seeing. In no way did I solicit this information. It was completely out of the blue.

They've been dating for only 3 months.

In a way this was horrifying but also somewhat relieving because there's a certain finality to it.

But there's the obvious question. Don't you think 3 months is waaaaaaay too soon to be moving in together? I didn't tell her I think this though. If it turns out that moving this fast is a mistake, I'm going to let her make it on her own. And if not, well, I wish her the best. Sometimes relationships just are perfect from the get-go. I have many reasons to believe that that is not the case here, but I'm just going to let it play out how it plays out.

Yes, I admit I am secretly hoping this blows up and she comes running back to me. But I'm not so naive as to count on that, and I'm certainly not going to try and engineer it. I just have to try and move forward without her.

[cmacattack1]

She's fishing to try and get a reaction of you. The best thing you can do is not give her anything. It shouldn't concern you that they are moving in together. Yes, by most conventional relationships it is very soon. It puts a very different dynamic on a relationship that is still in it's infancy. Who knows if the honeymoon has worn off?

Anyways, allowing her to make her own mistakes is the best thing you can really do. They might also work out and you should be happy for her if she has found happiness with somebody else. Yeah, I entertain the fantasy of my ex not working out with her current boyfriend and wanting to come back and talk to me. It's selfish though and I always squash that thought with the fact that I deserved everything I had coming to me. It's not realistic to believe that her tainted view of you would certainly change anytime soon. You messed up too buddy. Did everything you learn so far come from getting more chances or from the fact that you got dropped on your face because you deserved it?

[Petard]

Yeah, I understand everything you said. I hurt her twice and now I'm hurt once, so I still have another one coming by that measure.

I'm mostly content in the current situation. On one hand, I am 95% sure it is not going to work out for her; she has a lot of other changes going on in her life right now and frankly I think it's too much to deal with for her, and a 3-month relationship in this case is most likely the weakest link, and thus the casualty. Have you ever had a situation where you know the person is walking into a trap, but you can't say anything because your advice would be suspect, and you don't want to say anything, because sometimes you need to let people make mistakes on their own? That's how I feel about this. It's a weird way to explain it, it sounds malicious, but that's really not the way I mean it. And I also don't mean it in a smug, superior sense either. She's young, only 23 (I'm 32), and when I was her age I made more than my fair share of mistakes, and I needed to make them to really learn and understand. And like you said, maybe it's not a mistake. Maybe I'm wrong, and it'll work out. That's the other part of it. It would be a while before they'd break up. That gives me plenty of time to move on. I've already kind of compartmentalized her into one corner of my head, so she's not dominating my thoughts all the time. It helps that I met a new girl recently, but that's another story. So I assume that by the time this theoretical breakup would happen, I'll most likely be with someone else, or I'll have created enough distance that if she wanted to come back to me, we could have that conversation.

To answer your question, I've learned a lot just by meeting new people since the breakup, and social experimentation. But it wasn't until this whole incident flared up that I went over every detail of the relationship and figured things out about it. Basically, we've broken up twice, but both times I moved on very quickly and thus did not have any time or perspective to really process the breakup and the relationship in general. It's like, a year after the breakup, I am only now going through all the emotions that would typically accompany that. Better late than never, I guess. It's one thing to know what you've done wrong (which was the case the first time), but it's another thing entirely to understand why you did what you did and actually fix those things, which I never did the second time. Whether the third time's the charm to get both those pieces right is anybody's guess, but even if she'll never benefit from what I've learned about myself, I can always carry that over to someone new.

[cmacattack1]

I think you have a great attitude and perspective on this. You are certainly taking it better than most and I think alot of that has to do with a year on your own. It is a good thing to go through what you have gone through because you realize and learn so much about yourself and you are a much better person for this. I just went through that self realization process and you literally feel like a better person. At the same time, it's not the same when you don't have them to share it with. You also still believe that with this new you and this transformation you have gone through, you will be able to get the magic back that you once had. That magic is what makes you want to try all over again, what makes you want to fight for it. And yet, it might not be possible to get that back. That learning about each other feeling that makes everything seem brand new and the feeling of clicking. That falling in love feeling that we get with infatuation that isn't quite love yet but seems like there isn't anything you can't do.

All you can do is push forward which is a difficult thing to accept but something that is necessary.

You see everybody else giving advice on these forums and they are more or less the same: forget about them and move on. That is more or less what she is trying to do.....

At least you have your self worth and respect and the confidence to get the job done.

[Petard]

Well I have some semi-interesting updates.

First, I was with friends a couple of weekends ago, and one friend who sort of knows my ex’s new BF, she “broke” the news to me that those two were dating. Thanks, welcome to several weeks ago. But the interesting thing is, my friend couldn’t believe they were dating, because she is absolutely convinced that my ex’s new BF is 100% gay and just hasn’t come to terms with it yet. Does this change anything? Not really, but it does lend a little fuel to my belief that this relationship is going to blow up at some point. And everyone seems to agree with me that moving in after 3 months is a terrible idea. We’ll see.

Second, today is when I might be seeing my ex for the last time for the foreseeable future. I mentioned the apartment thing, well today I’m planning on signing the lease and she is moving out throughout this week, so after this she’ll be gone. I’m bringing her some of her old belongings, and I plan to say goodbye. Not a permanent goodbye, but like a goodbye, good luck, who knows when the next time we’ll see each other is. It’s a good opportunity to firmly establish no contact. I admit, I’ve cheated on that a little. As long as we’ve known each other we’ve had little ways to make each other smile, and I’ve been indulging that via texts and e-mails occasionally. Basically to always end on a high note; to keep her image of me in her head a happy one, and not a mopey, negative, I-want-you-back one. And she has responded as she always used to. But I’m getting ready to stop that. If she wants to initiate, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it, but me continuing to initiate it will just keep me holding on. Plus I think I’ve kind of restored the balance I lost when I pissed her off with angry texts and emotional e-mails a while back. So in theory, she has a positive image of me right now, and that’s where I want to leave it when I go into a broader no-contact mode. I am going to make her miss me, dammit. But more importantly, I just need to stop thinking about her. I’ve had good days and bad days, and things are getting better especially with the weather getting nicer. I need to take another step forward and just tear the damn band-aid off this time.

It’s going to be hard living in her old apartment, but I think I can make it look different enough that it will feel like my own place and not hers. I’m not moving in for a couple of months still, but I needed to get the place before it went on the market.

Anyway, it just feels a bit ominous knowing that I'll be over there in only a few hours, and after that, everything is going to be different.

[cmacattack1]

It will always be different between the two of you, no matter what happens. She is on her own path doing her own thing and only she knows how she feels about it and whether it's right or not. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but it shouldn't be a concern of yours and try not to be tempted to keep tabs on them. If things don't work out and she breaks the news to you on her own terms instead of you swooping in, it makes all the difference and determines how she really feels.

Good luck. I hope it's not too spooky living there.

[Petard]

Well I went over there and signed the lease and everything. I only had about 45 minutes before she had to leave, so I had to make it count. Before I go on I should say that although I am trying to move on, I still want to lay the groundwork for potentially getting back together. I have no illusions that this will happen quickly, but I know her well, and I know things I can do to help my own cause as far as getting her back.. I may be breaking all the rules of how to handle these kinds of things, but I won her over in the first place through following my instincts and meticulous calculation, and sometimes I simply had to ignore other people's advice.

So when I got there I gave her a gift. I won't say what it was but when we were first dating she said, if I ever needed to apologize to her, just get her what I got her and all would be forgiven. I never did that over the course of the relationship, but now felt like the perfect time; it was basically my last chance to ever use this move. So I gave her the gift, and she was very, very happy with it. Later I asked if we could talk in private (her roommate/my friend was there, milling about), and she said yes, so we went outside.

We chatted a little bit about where her life is at and where she's going with it, etc. I explained to her that I needed to say goodbye, that communication between us was going to make it more difficult for both of us, that I just needed to let her go in her own direction without me being in her face at all, and that I felt I was doing the right thing by doing so. After pausing she agreed with the concept. But here's the thing. At first I thought she just wasn't getting my point, but later it occurred to me, based on various things she said, that she doesn't want me to stop communicating with her. She's going to need me for some things down the road (but I've already made it clear I'm not her doormat, and not to be taken for granted), and I think based on our past, she wants to still have me in her life in some capacity. And here's a quote that really threw me when she said it: "It's hard balancing a new relationship with a past relationship." Dwell on that one for a while, because I know I am. That's a pretty meaty statement.

I then told her that no matter what happens to either of us down the road, she knows I will always be there for her if she ever has a problem with something. This is blatantly an invitation to come back to me if she has problems in her relationship. I could have been more subtle about it but sometimes with her you just need to say it kind of directly. I wasn't 100% literal, but as is the trend you might be seeing here, I like to plant seeds and then wait for them to blossom later on.

Also, when I felt it was time to go, I gave her the signal she always used to give me when she wanted a hug. She first said she didn't want a hug, then she said okay, and I gave her a big, long hug. She of course broke it off after a while but it was more than enough to stoke the fires of her fondest memories of me.

And then right before I left, for the first time, I told her I loved her to her face. I know this had a pretty big impact on her. I could tell by the look on her face when I left that this was all she was thinking about.

There are a ton of details I'm going to skip over, but long story short, I did not firmly establish no-contact. But I'm fine with that. I'm not going to be texting her at all, or e-mailing her. It's no-contact on my end, and she pretty much knows this. If she wants to contact me, she can do that. Depending on what she says, I'll respond or not. I feel some bit of peace with where things are at right now. I feel like I've said all I could ever say, I've done all I can do, and now I really am just leaving it in the hands of fate. Yeah, I've been meddling up to this point, but now I feel like I don't need to anymore. I've pressed her buttons, laid a decent groundwork for her to miss me, and made sure my lasting impression was one of someone who simply cares about her no matter what. If it works out, it works out. If not, well as I said way up above, hopefully enough time will have passed that I will have moved on.

This was the conversation I've been wanting to have with her for a month now; it's done now, and I feel pretty good about it. I didn't say anything stupid, I didn't exhibit any negative personality traits, and I gave her a bit of what she had been missing when we were still seeing each other.

Anyway, I'm not sure how I gave the impression I was keeping tabs on them or trying to directly interfere with them, because I'm doing neither. As you can see, my approach is all about building myself up rather than tearing the new BF down. I don't bring this stuff up with friends, it just happened that my friend started talking to me about it that one night, basically because she doesn't know any other topic of conversation with me other than me and my ex (this being because this particular friend is my ex's former roommate ... this is a big soap opera, no?)

As for living in her old place, it's not as big of a deal, because we spent most of the time at my place. There are a lot more old memories here than at her place.

So to recap, currently I'm feeling at peace with this. I'm sure I'll have some tough days ahead, but I know that I have done all I can do, which makes it a lot easier to deal with. Still have an ongoing bet with my other friend about my ex having her first major fight and leaning on me for support (the bet is this happens by July; I bet $50 it wouldn't happen at all). And I also move into the apartment in July.

Hopefully we get back together and everything is how it should be. Wouldn't that be nice? We'll see. Or maybe I'll have met someone new and better. Time will tell.

[Petard]

NC fail. As I said before, she is DO NOT CONTACT on my phone, I figured that would be a good warning sign if I ever decided to drunk text. Well unfortunately on Saturday I had been drinking for about 11 straight hours (bachelor party) and my ability to think logically was completely destroyed. So when my friend brought up my ex, it made perfect sense at the time to text her during this conversation. I told her my friend was saying I should give up on her, and that I disagreed. She responded a few times, but I can't recall the rest because when I woke up the next morning (strangely, not hung over at all), I deleted her from my text history and erased her number. I did apologize about the drunk texts before doing this though. I was mad at myself for letting it happen at all. Oddly enough, she sent me a couple of texts later that morning, unrelated, as if nothing had happened (don't want to say what she said, it's just a kind of ongoing text thing that we only send to each other because only she and I would understand).

So for those following at home, the undercurrent of all our communication recently, at least from my point of view, is that she is not really making an effort to forget about me. It is my belief she has not sorted through the wreckage of our past relationship yet, and that her current relationship is a rebound ... a delayed rebound to be sure, but a rebound nonetheless. I read a lot of people saying that if she is still keeping you in her life, that means she still has feelings for you somewhere. I agree with this, and not just because it suits my interests right now. Even if this is not the case, she is at the very least guilty of sending me mixed signals.

So the plan is now just going back to no contact, acknowledging my failure, and fixing it going forward. It didn't turn out to be as big of a disaster as I originally thought, but still, I need to be better than that.

I might come across kind of cavalier about all this, and I don't mean to given this is a broken hearts forum, it's just that I am confident that this is all going to work out. I don't have a whole lot of facts to base that off (everything I've told you about her is biased toward my own point of view, obviously), and I definitely have my down days and moments, but I just have a feeling that she's not done with me yet. That's the bad part though, because the more I think about that, the more it makes me want to just sit and wait for it to happen, which is not only painful, but it will be doubly so if it turns out I'm wrong. Oh well, it's an organic process. I'm miles beyond where I was a few weeks ago.

[cmacattack1]

Except you are still tempted to text her when you are wasted. One minute you are confident and calm and laid the business out to her, the next you are texting her god knows what when you are wasted. Let's talk about mixed signals.

That's good though you aren't beating yourself up too much about it. It happened, you can't do anything about it now. Don't get too over confident that things will work out with her. Keep yourself open to any opportunity you can and you really don't know what where you will be. If you picked up on her and her uncertainty with her current relationship, they are bound to fail eventually. When? I cannot say.

It must be nice to be her and have a backup with you. I guess it does help to keep in touch to some extent with your ex. I haven't talked to my ex in 6 months and she seems very happy with her current boyfriend (who knows though I don't talk to her). Make me wonder if I should take a page from your book eh?