Are guys just naturally jerks or do women make them that way?

[soulsurvivor23]

I ask this question because for my entire life i've been considered a nice guy. Being a nice guy has gotten me dumped, overlooked, used, etc... many negatives and little to no positives. My gf of 3 years ago basically took full advantage of me until she got bored and then she just tossed me aside and hooked up with some other guy. And my very next gf after that one led me on and used me not telling me that she actually had a man long distance.

Right now, I have major trust issues due to all my past situations and i'm skeptical and paranoid about every girl I speak to. So as kind of an unintentional defense mechanism i've started to see myself develop these "jerk" qualities that I wasn't exhibiting before. On some days i'll approach a good looking girl and act like i'm interested, drop a few lines, sometimes ask her for a number if that goes well, and then just put in a bit of work until I can have her physically and move on. Or sometimes I just act like I have a legit interest in a girl when I don't at all but rather just like having many options. And as faar as all that nice guy stuff is concerned, I don't do it anymore. Wining and dining a lady, being sweet to her and listening to all her problems, flowers, gifts, poems, I don't do any of that shit anymore. And lately for the first time in my whole life girls have told me i'm a "player" or an "asshole.."

And I actually didn't think I was one because the change happened gradually, but in truth when I looked in the mirror, I am. I've become the very guy the girls used to complain to me about. Granted I don't take it as far as some people but the jerk/asshole qualities are there. Which begs me to ask the question from the thread title. Are guys naturally just jerks or do women make them that way?

[xxazurexx]

Some people are just born jerks, some people are not.

I think guys get away with 'jerkish' behaviour and because women allow them to.

If women did not tolerate such behaviour as cheating, alcoholism, physical/verbal abuse, etc, men would have no choice but to clean up their act....or else no woman would entertain him - he'd never a find a relationship.

Some men disrespect women, because some women disrespect themselves.

I guess many have been in your situation, become kinda bitter and felt that they had to become a jerk in order to succeed with women.

But I can say that at the end of the day, all women want a nice guy and a decent guy who they can trust.

[Aeradalia]

I believe it's a combination of temperament and environment. Another person could've went through the exact same treatment as you and may not have become a jerk... or maybe they'd be worse off -- that's temperament. However the experiences would've had an effect and have changed them somehow --- that's environment.

The question is, do you really want to be a jerk? If not, then you'll have to work to change how you respond to environmental factors.

For the record... there are women in similar positions who have been treated badly by men repeatedly who harden to become 'bitches.' So it does nobody any good to grow cold to one another... especially when so many complain about the scarcity of love.

[vashti]

If you watch kids on a playground, you will see some boys are little brats right from the beginning, and others evolve in to it (if they aren't very resilient).

[VincenzoG91]

Many women like assertive guys. You don't need to act like a jerk to be assertive, though there are some common traits. Women will often settle for jerks if they can't get assertive guys.

[Gribble]

I've found that being polite, generous and selfless turns women off. Women are like gay men. All they want are assholes.

[Sixpacj]

First off, this hasd been posted in the "ask a female" part. I am not one, so I hope all the ladies will excuse this little rambling on my part...

I hear you bro and am gonna give you some tough, but much needed, love.

You are forgetting one important, or THE most important factor, i.e. ... VALUE.

Value here means good genes and being a source of a wide range of emotions (good and bad), i.e. strentgh, decisiveness, resourcefulness, optimism, directness, a sense of personal boundaries, the ability to say no, etc. This is what they want, how they are wired from an evolutionary biology point of view. They need a strong man to be the source of good genes for the offspring, and who will protect, defend and take good care of said offspring.

Therefore, for a woman to be attracted to a man, he must be of HIGHER value than her. None of the actions you have described in your post meets the criteria of high value. Basically you think that if you put her on a pedestal, if you force HER to be the dominant one (something she never wanted and actually abhors!), she will like you... NOT!

Which is why JERKS are doing so well. They give women a full array of emotions, emotional highs and lows if you will, and they value themselves more than them. Perfect illustration of .... what... ? yes, you guessed it - VALUE ;-)

Of course, those women get treated badly, and then end up going back to the repulsive nice guys... all the while thinking "gaawwd, this guy is so NICE... why the fukk am I not attracted to him... I WISH I WERE... BUT I AM NOT..."

By the way, whan a woman is complaining to you about a certain type of men, she is telling you to what men she is ATTRACTED ;-) If they bitch about jerks, it is because they are attracted to them... Like "all my 10 ex boyfriends treated me badly.." hahaha

So... here is the solution:

1. Always RESPECT YOURSELF more than other people.

2. Figure out what behaviour you accept and which you do not, AND DEFEND THOSE BOUNDARIES!!!! ALWAYS!!! Women WILL test you on that, so it is important not to flinch, ever...

3. You can be a "nice guy" all you like, but do so from a position of HIGHER VALUE and SELF-RESPECT. Cause this is the BS you hear incessantly, "yeah, I truly need a nice guy", yeah, right, she only forgot to add the one crucial element. You see, when they masturbate at night, they do so to the thought of George Clooney or Brad Pitt being nice to them... yes, being "nice", but look at the value those guys have hahahahah

Value, simply put, is the PREREQUISITE for all the other stuff to work. But from your post it is clear you are starting to be aware of this...

Incidentally, try no tot ask women for dating/relationship advice. IMHO, it is a waste of time and will lead you nowhere. If asked, a woman will tell you what she THINKS is right or works (she is social conditioned via the media, movies, love songs, etc., and simply does not have the reference experience). She will not tell you what works for fear of losing the social "face", lest you should think badly of her...

Instead, ask a man who is successful with women. Look around, you will find some, befriend them, ask for advice, they will be surprisingly eager to help a brother out...

Also, part of the problem is some of us have been raised by women (single mothers) with no male parental figure around. No-one to model after, nobody to learn from... So we grow up thinking that what works in order to gain approval from mummy (being submissive, doing as she tells, being "sweet", being week and in need of protection, being defenceless) will work in order to attract and keep a woman. And it DOES NOT.

[LailaK]

Are women naturally crazy bitches, or do men just make them that way?

-_- Silly question.

My boyfriend is a nice gentlemanly type of fellow. I like him that way. If he started acting like a jerk we'd have to re-evaluate our relationship. Not all women are attracted to jerks. Now, some traits that "nice guys" stereotypically have that are not attractive:

- They allow themselves to be walked on by others
- They are clingy
- They are passive and don't actively go after what they want
- They seem scared of girls
- They have feminine energy

Now those are stereotypes. I firmly believe that a guy can be nice and a gentleman without any of the traits I've listed above. That being said a lot of my guy friends moan about not being able to find women and it's not because "Women don't like nice guys" it's because they exhibit something I've mentioned about. Those features are very unattractive.

Edit: Another thing. Being a jerk will get you laid. There are a lot of stupid girls out there. However, if what you want is a loving, lasting, healthy relationship with someone who cares deeply about you and wants to make you happy, have your babies, be your #1, etc you are not going to get that by being a jerk. Your caliber of women will go down as well. Quality women who are smart and beautiful have lots of options. Unless she's damaged she won't choose to be with a guy who treats her like sh*t.

[soulsurvivor23]

- They allow themselves to be walked on by others
- They are clingy
- They are passive and don't actively go after what they want
- They seem scared of girls
- They have feminine energy

Now those are stereotypes.

Yes, those definitely are stereotypes, most of which have not applied to me at any point.. I've never been someone who is clingy, feminine, or scared of girls. The only thing I can remotely say resembles me in any way is a lack of assertiveness at times. However I find that to be more of a personality trait than a "nice guy" trait. Once I know that the girl is really the one I want, I go hard at it.

As for my description of my current behaviors, it's honestly something that happened without me thinking about it. I was telling my closest female friend about a predicament I found myself in a few weeks ago and she called me a "womanizer." And that was kind of a shock to me. It was like what? Me? Are you serious? Then I really thought about it. What happened was that there was a girl that I had gone on 3 or 4 casual dates with. The dates didn't consist of much, going out to clubs or just staying in and watching a movie or having sex. I told her early on I wasn't looking for a gf and she's like it's cool cuz she's not looking for a bf either. So after maybe the 4th date she calls and tells me she loves me... So after that I didn't call her again for maybe a week because it scared me off. Then I called her again and told her I can't say I have those feelings because I honestly don't feel that way, so if we continue to see each other it can only be casual right now. So we did end up seeing each other again, more physical stuff, but no mental on my part. And she was still telling me she loves me with no response back from me. So I told my female friend "How is it wrong and how am I a womanizer, it's not like I told her I love her back. I was upfront unlike some guys who would say baby I love you to get in her pants." Then I thought about that and was like, wait a minute what am I saying? I know that females attach sex with emotions and that by continued actions like this, especially AFTER she told me she loves me more than once, it sends the message that i'm interested.. So I was like damn, I didn't realize my moral compass was pointing so far south, I didn't even feel bad about my actions until my friend called me on them. That's why I say it was more like a natural progression for me over time than it was a conscious decision.

[Gigabitch]

Yes, women are ultimately responsible for the jerkiness of men. Which women? Their effing mothers.

Every time I've encountered a jerk, it turns out his mother thinks the sun shines out his sorry ass. I will not be raising my son this way. He will have to be just as decent as my daughter.

[bluesummer]

I agree with Giga, except I tend to think it comes from both parents. Momma thinks the sun sets on his head, and daddy acts like "his boy" is a man and can do whatever he wants. They grow up self-entitled, misogynist, and narcississtic.

I married a jerk in round one and now I'm marrying a genuine nice guy. However, he's a nice guy but not a DOORMAT, there's a difference. You can be sweet and thoughtful and sensitive and still be assertive.

[LailaK]

Um, did you or did you not make the following statements: "My gf of 3 years ago basically took full advantage of me until she got bored and then she just tossed me aside and hooked up with some other guy." and "my very next gf after that one led me on and used me not telling me that she actually had a man long distance." IMO, these things happened because you let some b*tches walk all over you, not simply because you're a nice guy.

As for all the other stuff you wrote, as much as it scares you that she told you she loves you it also made you feel good. Just admit it. If it didn't you wouldn't have continued to sleep with her. "I don't want a girlfriend," loosely translates into "I just want to boink you". She was stupid to not listen to you and you were an a**hole for taking advantage of the fact. Whatever. It happens everyday.

I think you should own up to that fact that sometimes, you behave like a d*ck. Stop hiding behind the "I only act this way because I've been wronged by women" excuse.

[soulsurvivor23]

I'm not really justifying my actions as clearly they were wrong, but I can honestly say that about 4-5 years ago I was completely different than I am now. I was the guy that girls turned to when their asshole bf's treated them badly. The opportunities that I have now were there back then as well, but I wasn't really tempted by them.. And I don't think that change in me just came because of a random change in a mindset that I had developed throughout the course of my whole life.

[dewilliams2]

Yes, women are ultimately responsible for the jerkiness of men. Which women? Their effing mothers.

Every time I've encountered a jerk, it turns out his mother thinks the sun shines out his sorry ass. I will not be raising my son this way. He will have to be just as decent as my daughter.

My mom thinks I have a golden asshole...but she also raised me to be a gentleman.

[dewilliams2]

Honestly I have a problem not being a nice guy.

I think its always good to use manners, I'm classically romantic in many respects.

I don't call names or degrade ever.

If you ask me for help or I see you need help and I can help I will.

I rarely lose my temper, if I do then you have pushed me to a place few ever have and it will be the end of you...think Jack Nicholson in The Shining "I'm not gonna hurt ya, I'm gonna break your ****in neck"...I bottle it up and when I explode ****in run.

Thats just me though and if a woman doesn't like it well then I don't give a **** there are lots of women...I've never had a problem finding one to spend some time with me.

The way I see it why would I want to be with a woman who didn't like me because I didn't treat her like shit? She is ****ed in the head.

I'm not going to let anybody walk on me but I'm not going to walk on anybody myself.