Trouble with trust

[Dearprudence]

I am new to the community and need some advice.

I have been dating a wonderful man for the past 10 months. We are currently living together and he treats me like gold. We have fun together and I feel like we are completely in love. I honestly could not imagine my life without him. Unfortunately, though, he is not divorced from his wife yet (but is legally separated) and his divorce will not be final until early in 2018. Because of this, I have a hard time trusting him. To my knowledge, he has limited (if any) contact with her, but I still have a hard time believing that he is 100% committed to me. Because of this, I have turned into a person I am not proud of...I check his phone, I look through his texts - all without his knowledge. And I haven't found anything at all. This weekend while we were on vacation, he was pretty drunk and told me that he still loved her but couldn't be with her because of all the problems they had in the past. I asked him about the conversation the next day and he remembered saying it but didn't elaborate on it.

I am afraid my paranoia will ruin a good thing here. But then again, I don't want to NOT paranoid and there is a reason I should be. Is it normal that he would still "love" his ex after being married for 10+ years (and separated for 1 year)? Or should this be a BIG RED FLAG for me?

[madotnw_nihs]

It's very possible to love your significant but still need to separate. I don't think just because he still loves her that it should be an automatic red flag. My question is "does he love you?" and is he committed to your relationship? You can also re-evaluate once the divorce goes through. Certainly, once the divorce goes through and he is with you, he will need to let go of his ex-wife.

[Dearprudence]

Thank you for this advice. I am new to dating so this is all VERY uncharted territory for me. He has given me no reason to doubt his feelings for me - at all. He says he loves me, he talks about our future (including marriage and possibly a family), and we have a great sex life. I think the word "love" related to his ex just really threw me for a loop this weekend. He rarely, if ever, mentions her, but when I ask questions, I feel as if he gives me honest, truthful answers about her (now and their relationship in the past.) As I said, I definitely don't want to over-react, but I don't want to be blindsided either. I guess I just wish he would have elaborated more when I asked the next day. Again, thanks for your advice. You've put this girl's mind at ease ;-)

[TheEvilJester]

Obviously dating somebody presently going through a divorce is never ideal. Frankly, as somebody who has been through it, my personal advice to him would have been to deal with his marriage first before getting back into the dating pool. My personal advice to you would have been not to get in too deep with somebody still currently going through divorce. Not that I'd say you avoid them like the plague, just that you proceed with caution.

Though, it is a bit too late for that advice at this point as you two sound pretty close already. And that CAN be perfectly okay and CAN work out perfectly fine. I will say this, from what you share it certainly sounds like he is being 100% honest with you. I obviously can't know that, but it doesn't sound like he's one of those creeps who pretends to be getting a divorce but is really just cheating on his wife. It sounds like he is legitimately proceeding and does legitimately want to build a future with you. Especially when you consider your snooping has provided no evidence.

This advice also comes a little too late, but I would NEVER suggest snooping on somebody like that. That is not a good way to build trust. Trust is a two-way street. What you are going through right now is one of the biggest reasons that dating while going through divorce can be ill-advised. You as his new girlfriend.... how are you really supposed to know if he is being honest or if he is just playing you? You really can only take him at his word and hope that his actions prove his words.

The truth is, divorce CAN take a long time. It can be a long and painful process. On the other hand, it can be relatively quick, amicable, and as painless as possible. Hopefully he and his ex can come to an easy agreement and end things soon. But, you never know. Even if he is willing to do that, maybe she won't be as willing. Maybe she will make things difficult.

As is it, though, you two ARE together now. So, all you really can do is try your best to trust him and be there for him as a caring partner. At the same time, A LITTLE bit of paranoia actually CAN BE healthy in a situation like this. By that, I mean you don't want to completely let your guard down and just assume he is telling you the truth. You don't want to just trust him that he is proceeding with divorce only to turn around and realize you have been waiting 10 years and he never really intended to divorce her in the first place. So, you can offer him the trust it sounds like he has maybe earned.... but at the same time just have an idea in your mind of how long you can wait, or what in your mind will prove he IS moving forward with the divorce even if it maybe doesn't go as quickly as he and/or you may like.

And I will also add in that I agree you certainly CAN still love somebody, but realize they are just not right for you. And, furthermore, you can also then love somebody else and feel like they could be right for you. So, just the fact that he still loves her in some way doesn't necessarily mean he does not love you, or even loves you any less. As madotnw says, what is really important is does he love you? And does he love you as much as somebody should at whatever stage you two are at in your relationship? Does he show you that you are a priority to him. Right now, maybe proceeding with his divorce is a pretty big priority as well, but does he at least show you that you are on the list and rising?

When you asked sober him about what drunk him said, he honestly may just not have wanted to elaborate. It can be a sensitive subject and most of us guys aren't the best at sharing our deepest feelings. So, I wouldn't read too much into that. Good luck to you. I hope you can find a way to let go of your paranoia (or at least for the most part) and trust him.... and I hope he can wind up living up to that trust.

[Dearprudence]

Thank you SO much for this advice. I know (now!) that the timing of the relationship wasn't the best - but he assured me that he was ready, had processed his relationship with his ex, that the relationship had been over for years etc. etc. etc. I, too, went through a divorce a few years ago and waited almost two years before dating anyone at all. So I do understand the need to deal with everything from the past before moving on to the future. (In our state, you MUST wait at 12 months from your separation date before you can even file for divorce so we essentially have no control as to how quickly it really can proceed - but 12 months is certainly NOT ideal!) Again, I admit that the timing of my relationship with him isn't perfect, but I have a feeling that it can (and will!) work out.

I also appreciate your comments about trusting him. In all honesty, his actions DO indicate that he has earned my trust. He has given me no reason to NOT trust him. I am swearing off the snooping behaviors ASAP!!! You are completely right - that is not a good way to live in a relationship and I want him to trust me too.

It makes me feel a lot better to understand that him "loving" her does not mean that he doesn't love me too. (I would hope that the "love" would be different, but I digress!) You are also correct - he doesn't enjoy sharing his deepest feelings, and I guess this is no different. It certainly makes sense, and once again, truthfully, he has shown me nothing but the fact that I am a priority to him.

Thanks so much for the different perspective and showing me a different way to look at this. I feel a lot better and feel as if I can start thinking about the relationship in a different way... THANKS AGAIN!!

[Hooo!]

I don't get this
He is together with you
What does the legal status of being married and separated does have to do with it?
I don't understand your problem

[Snow White]

Dearprudence, you can count on TheEvilJester to give mature and sensitive advice. I agree that the snooping is a bad idea for everyone involved. I have found myself in your position, feeling insecure and snooping just makes us look ugly. I think it is almost nice that he still feels some sort of "love" for his ex. He spent ten years of his life with her. I think that should show you he is a kind and sensitive man. People who get divorced can be very hateful towards each other and just want to hurt each other. Would you really want a man who could behave that way?

[TheEvilJester]

Dearprudence, you can count on TheEvilJester to give mature and sensitive advice. I agree that the snooping is a bad idea for everyone involved. I have found myself in your position, feeling insecure and snooping just makes us look ugly. I think it is almost nice that he still feels some sort of "love" for his ex. He spent ten years of his life with her. I think that should show you he is a kind and sensitive man. People who get divorced can be very hateful towards each other and just want to hurt each other. Would you really want a man who could behave that way?

Shucks. Making me blush over here. Thank you, Snow. I will echo the sentiment that I've always thought you give very good and heartfelt advice. I think you do your namesake proud. Heck, maybe secretly you actually ARE Snow White. LOL!

Prudence,

Glad to hear we were able to help you somewhat. And again, yes snooping was wrong of you, but I don't mean that to sound too harsh. You shouldn't beat yourself up too much over that. I can certainly understand why you were driven to that. Of course, though, your newly found resolve to end the snooping is definitely for the best.

I hope that things go well. Like I said, divorce CAN take time. Hopefully his continue to proceed well and hopefully as quickly as possible. I hope very soon you will be able to come back here and tell us about how great your relationship has been and how his divorce is final and you have been two have been able to move on. Good luck to you.

[Slumpy]

So let's review some admissions from Peter himself about his mistreatment of female social workers, shall we?

"Anyway, in more recent years, I lost two females due to accidentally crossing the thin line between a client and care worker. One was a Latino woman, from Spain. She was my 'key worker' and at first. she was really nice and had a good smile, nice personality and etc. They took the first lady off my team, for asking her on a date, then lied after promising me more shifts. This was after I was being used by the girlfriend I eventually found after nearly 7 years. So anyhow, they did give me one shift with her again but then started to lie and because I suspected this, I talked about her on Facebook once and they banned me from working with her."
Source: dealingwithdepression[DOT]co.uk/showthread.php?10472-My-heart-has-been-crushed-by-my-caregivers

So basically he asked out a professional care worker on a date inappropriately then started talking about her on social media, most likely berating her for turning him down even though she was only supposed to be there for him in a professional capacity. Just one quick example of Peter crossing the line with the opposite gender. Let's take a look at a few more gems.

"Around the same time period in late 2013, I had a crush on my key worker and then I leaked this out to a male worker I trusted. Well she was told this behind my back and then gave me a telling off one day once I slipped up, but before that she played games with me by saying she was moving to South America then later denied saying that."

You can see Peter's attention to focus on strange details here, talking more about being lied to about some small comment than the fact that he once again crossed the line with a female social worker, even going as far as revealing this to one of her coworkers who clearly reported it because of ethical concerns. Meanwhile, Peter is here believing he's been wronged and lied to even though he has a pattern of doing this to women, to the point where he was jailed and these companies won't send women to work with him any more at all.

"Months later, I went to jail for the first time in my life to be remanded before a court hearing after I contacted the women saying nasty things after at first being arrested for going nuts, after my ex key worker stood me up in front of others last July, and then I stalked one of the other women near her house in order to try to say sorry."

Hmm, the pattern and story is starting to emerge here.

"A few nights later, I was having a lunatic meltdown of sorts and contacted Joanna through her Facebook profile, telling her I wanted to have sex with a model from England. She said she would call the police, so I freaked out and went to her home, or rather, I went to hang around in her area. I told her a while back I got her address on 192.com and like Sara, she turned against me after having been sort of okay towards me for a long time. Since I emailed people my plan and I sounded suicidal, they got the police. Officers found me in the Granton area of Edinburgh just yards from her flat. They pretended to help me, then detained me for an interview, but later arrested me for stalking. I was bailed in court the next day, but then sent Sara similar messages and also made racist comments. I wound up arrested and remanded in prison for 2 weeks from 29 July up to 12 August. I was held in Saughton, in Edinburgh."
Source: wrongplanet[DOT]net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=268075

Wow! Some more admitted examples of this lunatic's way of thinking towards women. Remove this poster immediately so we can stop all of this.

"Just to clear up some stuff - I did not assault Joanna or Sara. That day I broke the bottle, I hit another support worker who was with Sara in the street and she made Sara leave. I took that as interfering, plus my mindset at the time was pure anger.

I really doubt I could carry on my support with that company as they all got some nasty emails and while they never responded, they probably think I was abusive. The reason I never gave up my flat sooner is because I know it would be 100% goodbye and I cannot stand people I care about being extracted from my life. Plus, flats like that are not easy to get into. The attraction nowadays is those female support workers.

I just wanted my life back, with all the support workers I love and miss back in place. It is different if they one day leave and nobody could stop them deciding this, but I live in fear of that because I just wanted to make things right in case I never get the opportunity to show it was all a misunderstanding that could have been talked through. Maybe if I had never confessed to anyone I had feelings for Sara or Joanna, then they may not have known as I would have done my best to ensure my feelings would never shine through and I could have kept them bottled up, as it would have been a smart and professional thing to do instead of blurting out how I felt which was relationship suicide for us. I feel I have a big mouth and who is the one left being the fool when the smoke has cleared? Not those women, the other workers or the man who blabbed, but me!"
Source: talkaboutmarriage[DOT]com/physical-mental-health-issues/232706-i-cannot-get-over-losing-my-support-workers-should-i-move-out-my-flat-4.html

Well, there you have it. He even broke a bottle out of anger when dealing with this issue. A strong, self-admitted outline of Peter's abusivebehavior toward women. He still believes he never wronged these women and that he's been mistreated by social workers, a judge, and everyone who's tried to intervene to help him in a professional capacity. We need him removed from advice forums like this so he can focus on his own mental health. This man should not be here giving love advice to anybody. I believe we have made our case here very clearly.

Remove Peter A (aka My Coffee Cup), the stalker and woman-abuser, so we can all carry on and hopefully he can get some help. He has refused to voluntarily stay off of the forum even after a ban. Time's up or relentless spamming shall ensue once more!

[Dearprudence]

Hooo! - I think that it's not so much about the legal status of his relationship - for me, it's more that he admitted that he still loves her. I think you make a good point too - his actions DO speak pretty loudly - and I appreciate you putting it in such black/white terms for me. I guess I had just hoped that he didn't still "love" his ex...but, playing into my own insecurities and difficulty trusting, "love" for her *may* indicate that he would go back to her. But for now, you are right - he is with ME, and that's what counts.

- - - Updated - - -

Snow White - thanks so much for these thoughts. I have successfully stopped all the snooping, and I actually feel less nervous now and somewhat more trusting. That is SUCH a good point - it really should be a positive that he is still concerned for her and "loves" her in some way. It would be almost bizarre if he could just turn off all feelings towards someone he once loved (and married!) and does speak to his kind heart and loving nature. I really appreciate your help...I hadn't even begun to approach this situation from that perspective!!

- - - Updated - - -

EvilJester - thanks again SO much for all your help. I have been able to stop snooping, and I certainly did not think you were too harsh (I *know* it was a bad idea!!!). I actually feel a little better now that I have stopped going through his phone etc. I certainly hope you are right - I am trying to be patient with this process, patient with him, patient with myself. I feel as if I have a really REALLY good thing here and am more than willing to put in the work to make it work!!! So I will keep everyone updated, and as you said, hopefully with lots and LOTS of good news!!

[Snow White]

Oh my God!!!! How can those posts even be allowed!! That is shameful and disgusting!!

[Dearprudence]

I agree. I have tried to get them deleted and reported, but I keep getting a message that says I must have been a member of the forum for 30 days before I can report items that have "links" to the web in them?!?!?! What on earth!!! So I will keep trying...absolutely disgusting!!!

[TheEvilJester]

EvilJester - thanks again SO much for all your help. I have been able to stop snooping, and I certainly did not think you were too harsh (I *know* it was a bad idea!!!). I actually feel a little better now that I have stopped going through his phone etc. I certainly hope you are right - I am trying to be patient with this process, patient with him, patient with myself. I feel as if I have a really REALLY good thing here and am more than willing to put in the work to make it work!!! So I will keep everyone updated, and as you said, hopefully with lots and LOTS of good news!!

Oh believe me.... I can most definitely understand not being able to trust a good thing when you have it. The life I have led... I find it near impossible to trust it if/when anything good actually happens to me. It so rarely does, and even when it does it eventually blows up on me. ...But, I tell you what.... it has at least allowed me to better appreciate the good things when they DO come along. It has also taught me an important balance of being able to enjoy the good things... but also not let my guard down TOO much and allow myself to make the mistake of confusing the good things with the ones that just SEEM good on the surface.

Not an easy balance, but you get better with practice. Some of us, with way too much of it. I hope, for you, this will be the last time you need to practice that. At least as it relates to love. Good luck.

[madotnw_nihs]

Ignore the users, then the body of the posts won't show up in threads.

[Hooo!]

Well I want to see you loving someone for a decade and then feeling nothing for them months later.

The question is wether he can and is starting to love you too