To be, or not to completly be...yourself

[Bonovox40]

Thanks William for the title.

Anyway, my thoughts are these: When getting to know someone through dating, should you just screw the give and take-keep a little mystery about yourself games, or should you just attept to be YOU and hope that's the person she really feels is who she likes/loves?

It's not that I don't believe you shouldn't do this, it's that i'm not sure how realistic it is to live that way. I feel that everyone hides somethings, and that everyone puts on a charade at least for a little while initially to raise attraction and interest levels in each other.

Like in my case, the woman i'm seeing really seems to like just who I am. I haven't hid behind a guise like I did with my ex. (My ex, I came out acting all cocky/macho and she dug it. When I started showing the sensitive "nice guy" side of me, it gradually turned her off and "bye! i'm going back to my ex who at least acts like a 'man's man'. ")
I've just been me and open and expressive and nice, but never boring. Like when I came to visit her at the camp. I came to see her but I helped for hours and hours with other projects and with others to prepare for the kids arrival. She said how special that was to her that I was the kind of guy who would do such things without wanting something in return, or without complaining that "This isn't what I came for."

It's that I FEEL she is being honest and real and that she really does like the "real me". I'm just afraid from my past expereinces that the "real me" will drive her away like everyone else. But I know it both situations when I wasn't me, I just wasn't happy. It's like a two-edged sword. It might work either way, but both sides can cut you back if you let it.

The other thing is, I don't know what she loved so much about her ex that she stayed loyal. If I knew, I could use those traits to understand if I had similar qualities/behaviors. (but not the asshole, abuser ones) Like, she told me that he didn't have many friends, and was incessitly jealous and would ALWAYS want to be around her, and didn't want her to be around anyone else. Well, I don't want to be like that. I DO want her to know that I enjoy the times we spend together and that she is free to live her own life. I honestly hope that the respect I give her will attract her more towards me, then say "Oh, he doesn't really care that I talk with other guys so I guess that means I can do what I want with them..."

Like the other day she told me "I was talking to Chris (another counselor) at the camp about me and you." and said "Yeah? What did he think about it?" she goes "You don't mind that I talked with him?" I said "No, why would I? It's not like you're going after him for kisses or something." She goes "No, never, it's just that I was always told I couldn't talk with other guys by HIM. I never had the willingness given to me by someone." I said "I WANT you to have friends and be able to live your own life. I'm not going to control you." and she goes "I am so happy. I'm glad you are not like that."

But I always wonder about things somedays and that if the understanding that i'm a nice, respectible, accepting guy will have EVERYONE take advantage of me. Which makes me think I should do the "frame my relationship" thing with Betty, that I did with Joy. I told Joy in the beginning that I would not date her unless "You understand that I EXPECT X + Y + Z, when dating me. No exceptions. If one of those doesn't exist or is broken, then I walk away, no questions asked." Joy said she really respected me for having those standards and said "I hope I can be the one to live up to your expectations." Of course we all know that it didn't work out and when I dropped the cocky/macho BS, that she didn't like what she saw.

That's why I just want to be ME! But it's so hard to accept that without worries. I KNOW that the right person for me SHOULD accept me for who I am. I was a jerk too with Joy and tried to change her and tell her what to do in some cases and she felt lessened and controlled which helped her to feel I wasn't worthwhile. I know I need to be more respectful of who i'm with even with the flaws I find. God knows I have my own! One thing Joy told me was "I could never stay with you, I see that now, if you become a cop. I couldn't live every day not knowing if you were coming home." I told her "You could work at Burger King and get run over in the parking lot one day. Every job has a potential for bad things, just because i'd be a cop doesn't MEAN i'm going to die and leave my partner a widow!"
But a big part of me thinks she said that as a reasonable excuse to all her other BS excuses of why she wanted to leave.

The main jist of my ramblings is this: I feel something really incredible with this woman i'm dating. Something I haven't felt before, but similar to someone else in the past. With my mistakes and pain and lessons learned from both, I feel that she is more REAL and HONEST then the others and actually HAS a good heart. (Joy gave time at a nursing home, but she was so young and still had the high school mentality and that everyone's opinion mattered to her) It's just i'm afraid to really ACCEPT everything I see at face value because it seems too good to be true. (yes, even with the emminent prospect of long distance dating, i'm not concerned with that holding me back) I just keep thinking, what did I do to deserve someone like this? I don't feel like I did so she must be a serial killer or an ex-prostitute or something. Of course I don't REALLY think those are possibilities of what she is, I just wanted to give an example. lol
I do know that she technically cheated on her ex-bf to be with me. I don't see that as a good trait EVEN though I was the one who supported her. I guess i'm as guilty as her in a way. And I know one red flag is that she was with the guy, was abused/unhappy, but would not leave because she was AFRAID to hurt anyone. (sign of low self-esteem/worth which is never good. Of course HE may have helped drive that into her, but unconfident women sometimes can't say no to a guy, even when they're in a relationship they're happy with. It does happen sometimes)

So i'm just not sure what to believe/expect out of all of this. She tells me that she really does love me for who I am and how I make her feel. Can she really know this in less than 3 weeks and only 3 days of physical contact? I mean, sure who wouldn't want to be with me? No seriously, I've felt that "I love you" vibe with Robin but it was really lust and joy that she was my first and made me feel like a million bucks.
Betty says that she never knew she could find someone like me who has the traits I do that make her feel special inside. That it was more than a coincidence for her to travel like 16,000 miles across the world and find me. She said that she's had other guys at home hit on her and try to date her and show their interest, even when she was unhappy with her bf, but she never felt something so strong about someone till she met me. Can I really believe this? Is 8 hours of face to face conversation all it takes to turn someones heart to yours? It just seems like such a lucid dream that I don't know if i'm following my heart, or something made up in my mind.

I am really totally lost in what steps to take with this. This goes beyond anything i've been a part of or understanding about from others. Bottom line: I'm lost!

[squirrley]

Geezuz Bono-good thing I have some time this morning! First always be yourself man. Its amazing what it can do for your own self. Dont change who you are to appease anyone. YOure you for a reason and Betty likes you for who you are!

People come into our lives for a reason...and somehow she has made you realize you dont have to put on a fake you-that it is true you can be yourself and find someone whose attracted to you for who you are and not someone else.

Go with the flow on this one and dont overanalyze it-hell gets me into trouble. Have fun with her and whatever shes telling you trust in it you dont have a reason not too!

[Bonovox40]

Thanks Squirrly. I like to think i'm usually confident, but when a good opportunity arises, that voice in my head says "You're going to mess it up, just accept it and start to worry." I have to remember to bring duct tape for that damn voice. lol.

If anyone wants to see a pic of Betty from her Hungarian university home page, go to:

[url]http://www.kfrtkf.hu/index3.html[/url]

and scroll almost halfway down. They go by date so look for the one dated, 2004.04.05 That's her in the striped "referee" looking shirt. I have no idea on reading the page as I don't know Hungarian, but I translated the title and it was basically a "poetry, or language contest" of some sort. Her name isn't on the list so I guess she didn't win. But at least she has her pic on the page. lol, there's another one about 2 pics down of her at the same place.

I also found out it's cheaper for me if I ever wanted to visit her, for me to fly out there. She has to apply for a visa and it costs $100 US which isn't cheap for her, plus airfare. I as an American, do not need a visa to visit unless it's over 60 days. So just so food for my own thought.

[squirrley]

[QUOTE=Bonovox40]Thanks Squirrly. I like to think i'm usually confident, but when a good opportunity arises, that voice in my head says "You're going to mess it up, just accept it and start to worry." I have to remember to bring duct tape for that damn voice. lol.

so true man! K-I couldve used some of that myself this past weekend. How come its easier to give advice and not take your own?
But I learned quick...no need for the duct tape anymore!

Just remember you had the confidence to get in this...she likes you for you!

[jslaughter]

As always - - I have to go with Ms.Squirrley in every way.

Bono - you are great, wonderful, awesome!!! You should always be YOU and if a girl doesn't appreciate you for who you are - forget her. Don't change for her as clearly she isn't worth it.

I also believe that every relationship is like a stepping stone - bringing us closer to marriage (if that's your goal). The expereince we gain shapes us and our expectations. I fear that most of us have to go through all the awkward high school relationships to learn what's acceptable and what's not in "real" relationships.

So again as the o so wise Squirrley said - - just relax and enjoy the ride!

[squirrley]

loves ya jules! I agree with you too on the whole gotta go through things to get what you really want in the end...marriage-k well someday I do want that-I want someone to share in my happiness and learn and grow with that person...oh you know Ive got to stop right here on this subject. Or I'll never shut up.

[Bonovox40]

"just relax and enjoy the ride!"

I keep trying to tell myself that! My friends do too. I'm not afraid to be me, it's knowing for sure that she's really into ME or a POTENTIAL of me. Do you ever think it's good NOT to give all the details to someone even if you're being honest and open? Joy did that to me but she wasn't honest with herself and how she really felt about her ex. She told me EVERYTHING, even stuff that was red flags and she knew it. It was just that when she said she was over him, I believed her and she wasn't. If Betty is the same way, i'm just going to kick myself over and over for trusting again. I don't know how to approach that and be open but careful.

[squirrley]

Well you learned from Joy some things and you need to take it with you...but dont think that because it happened once it will happen again...you have to give Betty a try here you have no reasons to distrust her right now-and remember the age diff too! Thats gonna say alot too. Dont stop dating because you had one bad experience in one area of dating. Be open and honest with her! Its up to you in what you want to share-and in your own time. You'll know when things are right to bring up or not.
But in the meantime Bono-take those chill pills buddy-its all good...remove the duct tape and go with your gut...relax and have fun!

[jslaughter]

As always I am with Squirrley. . .

If she is in love with your potential, that will become clear as she will start trying to change you. Just accept that she cares about you as you are and IF things start heading south - you know enough to cut them off at the pass.

[Bonovox40]

Just accept that she cares about you as you are and IF things start heading south - you know enough to cut them off at the pass.

That's what I told myself LAST time. I waited till I was already involved in a stampede to cut my losses at boot hill.

[Dude!]

If you dont be yourself how will you find someone that would like the real you?

[Bonovox40]

At this point, i'm all up in being myself. It's the not knowing if she is being real or not, which freaks me out. But the same goes in her case. I could be a lying/backstabbing/pedophile/serial killer who just shows that he's a nice guy on the outside....wait a sec..did I say that pedophile/killer thing out loud again? Um...I gotta go somewhere or do something now......bye....

lol

No really, it's that I don't know if she's over him. I don't know if she really wants something with me or she'll convince herself it's just a fling. I don't know if she really is an honest person with good morals or that she's been a ho or something. I don't really know. It's all about taking the risk/chances to figure it out and I may or may not be hurt by doing so. I just cannot accept to NOT take a chance with her because it feels so good right now. Just like how I said that no matter WHAT happens when I go down to visit her, I HAVE to kiss her or i'll always regret it. And I did, and it was great and led to better things and stronger feelings after we opened up and had that out of the way. I think that sex is a good probability within the next 2 weeks, but i'm don't think that will change anything. Realistically, it shouldn't. Our feelings should grow from what we feel about each others personality/behavior. I made that mistake by "loving" someone more after having sex with them in the past.

But, does anyone here think it's ok that she has already told me that she really does love me so soon? I know in my feelings, that love is something that can grow or decrease, it's not just a snap of the fingers and "all or nothing" you know? I can accept that she loves me in some ways, but that it can be more or less as time goes on. But do you think it's actually wrong for her to tell me so early and that it isn't a crush/lust? Remember that her culture may look at it slightly different, but probably in a more respectful way from what I hear about euro-slovic nations. Not 100% sure though what is fact of course.

[Cuzoe]

Well, i'm green so my opinion can be taken lightly I guess. But generally I tend to be a nice guy too (consider myself a little too nice actually). And being like this is, i think anyway, is what got me my now ex-girlfriend. We were together for four years until last week, and we split because she took advantage of my niceness. Enough about me, I think it's worth the "risk" that you could be hurt later on because if you hold back, and she really does like you, then you risk not having her forever. I wouldn't trade my last four years for anything in the world. About the love thing, I think it's ok that she let you know she loves you, it's being "in love" with someone that I think is questionable if it comes too soon. My vote, be yourself.

[jslaughter]

But, does anyone here think it's ok that she has already told me that she really does love me so soon? I know in my feelings, that love is something that can grow or decrease, it's not just a snap of the fingers and "all or nothing" you know? I can accept that she loves me in some ways, but that it can be more or less as time goes on.

I don't believe in love at first sight - I believe when that occurs you have a picture in your head of what you THINK that person is like and that very rarely matches up with who the person actually is. However, this relationship has started with alot of talking and alot of getting to know each other so I feel kind of torn. You have been honest with her and shown her who you really are - therefore it would seem possible that you in all of your greatness could have won her heart. (Because you are wonderful Bono - we all think so.) However, I believe love takes a little longer to evolve even if there are long hours of heart to heart talks happening.

It seems like there is a great deal of pressure for you to jump into something or make a commitment, and I cannot help but wonder where the pressure is coming from - - from you or from her? If you feel like you are being pushed I will confess that I don't handle that kind of thing well - I feel like if I have to hurry towards something I suspect its so I won't have enough time to check everything out thourouhgly but that's just me. Anyway. . .

Should she have told you she loved you? If she feels it why not. Has she seen enough of you to really know who you are and to really love YOU - that's a question you have to answer yourself.

[Bonovox40]

I understand J and thanks for all those little things you say about me. Makes the day go by a little brighter. ;-)
And I did feel a LITTLE rushed towards something but NOW, I don't. We talked about things and we both realized that in a perfect world, we'd have time to learn and grow. In this case we don't exactly but we still have a chance to do so even apart and we're accepting of that. We'll make do with what we can and she's ok with taking things a day at a time as long as she can THINK of the future, and I can't stop her from that of course. I think she's seen most of my "loving/compassionate" side to know how that really is, but still needs to know "imperfections/flaws/doubts" part of me because that's still me. She sees the overall package of good things that I contain, of that i'm very sure. But it's the WHOLE package I want her to see and choose to accept or not. I think that will be known in time. So as for her saying she loves me, and me back to her, I don't feel it's wrong with what we know so far. We both love the people that we KNOW of at this moment. It's wether or not we will love the whole package after knowing that person which will determine our fate.

And Cuzoe, I have had some bad ending LTR's longest was 3 years, and I wouldn't take it back. I learned so much from the bad and the pain that i'm not the same person today. I know more and it has helped me grow. Sure, I wish it was easier and didn't hurt so much at times, but I know that if you open your mind to these things that it will help you learn and grow. Everything has a purpose, even pain and sorrow. Life wouldn't be the same without them. We wouldn't value things like "love" so much if there wasn't an opposite side to it. It's only human to think that way.