Fiancee vs. everything

[anis_matar]

It is quite complicated so in short:

I love my fiancee, we had great plans, at least I thought of "we", now after we engaged she is trying to change all of them. Before she was supportive of my ambitions to continue postgraduate studies in another country, now she doesn't want to leave unless its for money and to return back.

She used to say she loves my family who live away, now she refused to let me visit them (she says we'll visit after marriage), she refuses to live in their country and wants me to stay in her. She also considers any advice from my family to be intrusion in our lives (so my mother is afraid to pick up the phone and talk to me about anything).

We agreed before to pursue our future together and forget countries issue and live in third country. Now it must be eventually her country.

My question is:

Despite the love, can she really be so worthy, worthy for me to abandon my ambitions, and practically (not in theory but in practice) to abandon my family? Or will the resentment be so painful that after marriage and kids I would eventually explode into divorce? Is love really that strong to make you compromise everything in exchange for her even if she doesn't compromise a thing and only accepted answer is 'yes dear'. ? Am I right to be frightened to continue or maybe I'm just paranoid and bad in commitment?

[shh!]

Well, let me just say that I think you ought to be very careful about marrying someone whose future plans do not coincide pretty closely with your own. I can't say how "worthy" she is, but let's just say that little problems before marriage tend to become BIG problems later. I can't imagine it being a good idea for you to distance yourself from your family (unless they are objectively heinous or somehow harmful) and obviously not your educational goals, either. These are things she should WANT you to have.

This girl - assuming you have portrayed her as she really is - sounds like she has issues. You'd better think about laying down some boundaries now. Perhaps you ought to have some pre-marital counseling. I think most religious denominations require it nowadays, and if not, you can get a secular therapist. Be sure you are really honest with them about your feelings, or you could end up stuck in an unhappy marriage. Be sure you address all the issues you mentioned, plus things like money, child-rearing and religion (especially if you are of different faiths, and even if you are not particularly observant because these things become very problematic during life cycle events). Good Luck.

[shh!]

BTW: I just re-read the title of your thread "Fiancee vs. Everything" - and it occurs to me that a spouse is supposed to ENHANCE your life, not replace it entirely.

[COAD]

Shh! Covered everything I guess...
You got a huge decision infront of you, and I really hope you will make it right.

Heres a little example for you
You need a plug for a CD player, you buy one - But first you check if the volts are not too much right? It will play at first, but then too much voltage will kill it.
So you need to check for problems in the relationship (too high voltage ) first. If not, the marriage will work at first, but then..


Took my a while to make that up lol, but it work

[anis_matar]

Yes it work Coad, crystal clear example

To be honest shh!, I should add she is usually very gorgeous girl, very faithful and home oriented. But even that now made problem between us, cause unlike her I am somewhat liberal and she is completely conservative. She even refuses to go for a karaoke or somethin.

In details I can compromise, when she asked me to abstain from alcohol I agreed, she is really more important to me than having some beer (although wine on greek beaches, hmmm). But now it is about life itself. As for money and kids issues, we already have those problematic discussions. In order to marry her (party and gold) I should take credit and be in debt for the next 4 years (her attitude is generally take it or leave it).

As for kids she does'nt want me to interfere with their upbringing, since I am too much soft and leniant in her opinions. Of course, she built the opinion from her observation of my conduct with my sisters.

I am not forbidding my sisters to have boyfriends, as long as they can be honest about it and share things with me, so can I give them a hand of help or advice if any problem happens. In her world, its unheard of and unacceptable, and if my friends there didn't know that in my mother's culture where I was raised it is a normal way of life to let girls choose their future partners, they would have probably labeled me as a pimp and subhuman.

So up to now its:

Fincee vs. :

- Family
- Ambition
- Finances
- Culture
- Kids

[COAD]

Did you spoil this girl?
Cause it seems her expectations are a bit too much...

[anis_matar]

Oh shh! I forgot about religion, we share the same religion, but to different degrees of subordinance. She wants me to become very religious and she even said to me that I am not afraid of God, and whoever is not afraid of God people should be afraid of him.

Well I believe in God but I classify my feeling of him as a respect and not fear, I believe he loves us although we make mistakes and definitely he doesn't hate us.

[Junket]

Well I believe in God but I classify my feeling of him as a respect and not fear, I believe he loves us although we make mistakes and definitely he doesn't hate us.

That's similar to the way I view God.

I can't respect a God that sees me as a speck only worthy of being squished.

[anis_matar]

Well Coad, I don't know, maybe.

Let me give you an example. In my life I had some easy going relations, and intimacy and sex always meant a world to me. When I met my fiancee she insisted on abstinence and that her principle is not to be touched before marriage. I literally respected her principles and decided that giving up my pleasures is easier than making her giving up her principles, I literally didn't touch her until we got engaged.

The example is meant to show I only wanted harmony in most humane way. If this way is so wrong then I believe my whole inner structure is somehow inadequate for survival

[shh!]

To be honest shh!, I should add she is usually very gorgeous girl, very faithful and home oriented.

I know it is hard for men to get past a girl's beauty, but really: it eventually fades, so I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor. The home-oriented bit is okay, depending on whether or not she genuinely minds you being the opposite. Careful there, we girls kind of tend to play down our preferences in this area, and then complain about it later. Also, I don't know that in 10 years or so you won't resent attending outings on your own. You probably should have some level of similarity without being joined at the hip.


[/QUOTE] But even that now made problem between us, cause unlike her I am somewhat liberal and she is completely conservative. [/QUOTE]

Well, this would be a problem for me, although I know it isn't for everyone. The way one views politics says a lot about their moral values (how one views war, poverty, money, etc.) It should be clear to Americans after the Bush election that politics can be very divisive. I would be hard pressed at this point to date a Bush supporter, let alone marry one, because I have a negative prejudice associated with them. However, we are at a time of extremely divisive politics. It never used be so bad.

[/QUOTE] As for money and kids issues, we already have those problematic discussions. In order to marry her (party and gold) I should take credit and be in debt for the next 4 years (her attitude is generally take it or leave it).[/QUOTE]

I know a lot of females are this way, and I admit it is hard for me to relate to because I tend to be very practical. I think weddings SHOULD be tasteful and pretty because they are important events, but they should NOT be considered a theatrical event. I wouldn't consider breaking the bank for an for an extravagant affair. This is normally done to impress the guests, anyway, and if you know good people, this should not be the concern. Perhaps you should start setting a few of your own boundaries by firmly stating how much you are willing to spend (and be reasonable) and tell her she can have the rest when she has saved for it. Don't accumulate debt over this.


[/QUOTE] As for kids she does'nt want me to interfere with their upbringing, since I am too much soft and leniant in her opinions. Of course, she built the opinion from her observation of my conduct with my sisters. [/QUOTE]

I am not understanding what you have said about the role you play in your sister's lives, but there seem to be some cultural differences I can not intelligently address. However, I have to ask: are you really willing to give up your right to have influence over your own children?

I don't know how old you both are, so let me give you a bit of insight I have observed about relationships. This girl sounds very strong to me. I do not say this in a critical way, it is merely an observation. Strong girls tend to pick out men who are softer/sweeter to balance themselves out. This is okay for a while, but eventually a strong girl will begin to resent the very quality she valued in the beginning . Whereas once she thought he was sweet and nice, he now is weak. Same goes for the men. He might once have valued her strength, independence and determination, but now he sees her as controlling and bitchy. Why? Because I believe each has spent too much time at the opposite end of the pole, stuck in their respective roles.

You really ought to experiment with being a bit more assertive with this girl, and she should experiment with being a bit more willing to negotiate with you, as far as I can tell, before you seriously consider marriage. Marriage lasts a lot longer than one can imagine, and both people need to be equally willing to give and take.

Wow - I think this is my longest post ever.

[anis_matar]

Well Frasbee, I agree on that.

Crying for support from real strangers. it seems funny but I wanted some neutral advice. To be fair she is gorgeous amazing girl, but I feel stuck. I know its my life and my decisions, but I needed to speak of pain. Thank you guys for your support . And if you wish to make it intellectual, answer me how far are you ready or not ready to give up for love.

Love is something that can be granted or revoked, so what is your definition of girls/guys deserving to keep the love granted, and where are the red lines when it should be revoked ???

[anis_matar]

shh! you really amazed me. Call me a schauvinistic pig but I really just now discovered you are a girl and I'm amazed how logical you are. Usually girls I know (cultural difference maybe) are much more emotional and much less realistic. So you are 100% great person. I've seen some of your replies and I know this is the bigger one till now

Anyway, I am 30 years old, my fiancee is 25. I am currently in Jordan studying Masters degree and working in IT in Royal Jordanian Airlines and my fiancee is also in IT working for Royal Scientific Society. My parents advise me to go back to Europe and continue my Ph.D. there (Austria or Germany).

As for me mentioning my sisters part they are my family, and I do not wish anybody to hurt them as long as I can advise them, we guys know lots about each others intentions although I try to stay away from interfering in their private life, I encourage knowing their boyfriends and getting involved in their lives and being there as transparently as I can.

The whole sisters issue was mentioned for an example of me wanting to be part of my kids life. I belive total pressure means total resilience, this is the reason I want my kids to have joyful life yet not be afraid to share with me their life. I don't wish my daughter or son to hide from me she/he is seeing someone, and to pretend she/he is not human but some kind of celestial being. I want to upbring my kids right and to let them face the life with no fear.

And shh!, as for strong girls issue, my fiancee is maybe the weekest one that can be found in Jordan. I assume you are in US or similar. These girls here can sell a sand to bedouin, and water to sailor. So I actually encourage here emancipation not as the mean to free females from male dominion, but to give them goals of equality in careers in life to distract them of assuming all the control in their households. After all, its a small world, and its center is your home, whoever controls it, ultimately controls the world.

[shh!]

I am a stupid American! It never occurred to me you might be from the Middle East, and now I understand (and respect) your relationship with your sisters in a whole new way. Here in America, we are so focused on asserting our individualism (and expecting others to assert theirs) that we sometimes become a bit negligent in our responsibilities to familiy, and frankly, a little haughty about them "interfering" in our lives.

Ahh, but back to your issue. Your goals and ideas about relationships between parents and children are very sound, and your observations about Jordanian women demonstrate (in addition to your being very funny) a sense of practicality. You strike me as a lovely man with good, sound judgement and thinking. This leads me to believe that you may be hearing matrimonial "warning bells" for a reason.

I notice your parents are encouraging you to go abroad to study. Are they aware of the other conflicts between you and your beloved? What insight do they have for you? You see, I know that despite Jordan being one of the more "westernized" countries in your region, there may be cultural differences between us which I may not be addressing.

I take it that she is Jordanian, and you are from where? Are you both Muslim, and if so, are you both of the same denomination? (Is that what they call the different types there?) Because it is my understanding that there are some significant differences between the Suunis and the Shiites, for example.

BTW: Thanks for noticing I that I am not prone to emotional thinking; I take pride in being rational. Funny thing is, though, that MOST females actually believe they are rational beings, and it makes me wonder if I am just kidding myself. I have to say that I sometimes feel real sympathy for men; it can't be easy!

[mhussain]

anis_mater , where are you from?

Hussain