Matters of Marriage and Prenup

[Rowen]

Hey, everyone, I think some of you might recall me mentioning my brother and his fiance on the forums before, particularly how to handle talking to him about their relationship. But for those of you who have never heard about this, I'll try to give a very, very short background:

Basically, in my opinion, she isn't right for him. Yes, he's my brother, and it's his bed where she'll be sleeping- not mine... But, she's incredibly inconsiderate of him and very rude to my family. She's been inconsiderate and rude to us while leaving messes around the house. On top of that, my brother has been changing emotionally and has become increasingly defensive about his relationship, making it difficult to even joke around with him anymore..

HIA suggested talking to him about his relationship...and now, I can say that I've tried. One day as my brother was getting ready for work, somehow the subject of his fiance's mother came up. Now, keep in mind...this is the same woman (Let's call her Patty because I forget her real name. My brother's fiance is named Megan) who pulled my brother aside at his college graduation away from everyone else and looked to be having quite the serious conversation with him... Only my brother and her know what they discussed, as he never mentioned any of it. But from his demeanor afterward, it seemed like it was his plans. She's also the same woman who has yet to bring up any matters of how much cost each family will shell out to make this wedding happen..and they've been engaged for over a year, I believe.

Anyway, we're talking, and then the subject started progressing into tension with her mother... My brother never came right out and said that things were rocky, but from his words, I got the general feeling that things were off. I thought it was the best chance I'd ever have to try to get my feelings across to my brother that I personally don't think this is the best idea. Please don't misunderstand; I was in NO WAY trying to break up their engagement...but I was trying to speak my peace because the last thing I want for him is to get hurt. So...I went for it, indirectly. :S I told him part of my view- that from all I've seen it doesn't seem like Patty approves of him and wants this marriage to happen. I tried to word it delicately so we wouldn't fight. However, he surprised me by not trying to retaliate with some heated comeback- he just asked me why I thought that, and I told him nicely. For a moment then, he stood there in silence looking like he was actually considering it, shrugged, and then he left for work.

So, since I successfully expressed some of my feelings about this...we now come to matters of prenup. My brother owns his own dairy farm of almost a hundred cows, and he has literally everything tied up in this business because, if any of you have never knew this, farming in general is tricky. You have to know what you're doing- especially with dairy farming (50% genetics and 50% business management, my brother's one professor said). And a number of us (even my grandfather before he passed last year- he actually brought up the idea of a prenup first) are afraid that if this doesn't work out for him that he will lose absolutely everything. And that would truly devastate him...

But, at the same time, I don't want to be the asshole who ruins someone else's happiness because, in the end, it's still his choice...so what do I do, everyone? :S How can I- and should I- put something like that out there as an idea for him to consider? They can't even decide on a last name for chrissake...and I know she wants him to take hers (which would be a royal pain to change over all the licenses and organization applications). His dog doesn't even like her- literally. :S

Any advice/feedback would be greatly appreciated. :S Again, I'm not trying to control him, but I'm trying to give him some thoughts to think about. Sorry it's so long.

[Sonrisa]

If he's got any balls he'd never take a woman's name, and a prenup is an absolute MUST.

[michelle23]

I understand he is your brother and you care but sometimes you have to let people make their own mistakes. I dont think you should get involved if I am being honest. It could sabotage your relationship with him. My two aunts hate each other because one of them tried to split the other up (never liked her husband) but they have been together 30+ years and seem happy..

[chinagirl]

Can your brother set up his farm as a corporation or business owned by the whole family so just in case he gets divorced (which I hope he doesn't get to that point), the future wife will have a problem going after that asset?

I agree with Michelle, this is a very sensitive issue and if your brother is crazy about this girl, he may take offense if you asked him to have a pre-nup agreement.

[pcmaster]

Well he have 100 cows already, if he wants another one its his choice. I think there thats sexual attraction that you cant see, the bad that happens during the day is compensated by night.

[somehelp4me]

Dogs can sniff out evil, rofl.

I hope he doesn't take her last name, she can keep hers and add his too. WTF on him even considering otherwise and taking her last name.

Get your dad or parents to discuss the pre nup, not you.

[Rowen]

I understand he is your brother and you care but sometimes you have to let people make their own mistakes. I dont think you should get involved if I am being honest. It could sabotage your relationship with him. My two aunts hate each other because one of them tried to split the other up (never liked her husband) but they have been together 30+ years and seem happy..

Exactly, you understand what I'm trying to get across... Obviously, if he's going to make a mistake (which I think it will), he has to do it on his own. And I don't dispute that- I'm not trying to control him or split them. My only desire was that he might have something to think about so he looks at it from all angles and then decides rather than just jumping in. But, like you said, doing that is a bit controlling too, and I agree with what you're saying.

Can your brother set up his farm as a corporation or business owned by the whole family so just in case he gets divorced (which I hope he doesn't get to that point), the future wife will have a problem going after that asset?

That's another part of the situation that's a bit sticky. My Dad and even my grandfather have a way of being overbearing when it comes to farming. My grandfather also has a farm (but a different type of farm- this one is a grain farm and now has become more of just a holding area for some of my brother's cows that he either just bought or is looking to sell) that he doesn't contribute to and my Dad and brother run. However, he takes advantage of it every chance he gets to drain the farm bank accounts to pay for personal things like his cruises and operations. And my Dad makes asinine business decisions which lose more money than they gain, so...my brother would rather not be tied to either of them in any way. He wants total control, which I can understand.

Not to mention, everything is already set up under him. He did at one time have a partner, but that's only because he started out working on the farm as a hired hand. The partner (who was the owner and his boss) told him that as soon as he got his degree in Dairy Science, he'd take my brother on as a partner for a year so he could start slowly relinquishing all control to my brother (and then eventually retiring from it entirely, leaving my brother as the sole and only partner). Now, my brother is entirely in control with everything set up under him. :S

Dogs can sniff out evil, rofl.

I hope he doesn't take her last name, she can keep hers and add his too. WTF on him even considering otherwise and taking her last name.

Get your dad or parents to discuss the pre nup, not you.

Yeah, Marley (the dog) doesn't really like it when she's around. And, honestly, I think she knows this. Haha

As for her taking his and keeping her, there's one more sticky part to this.. She's in graduate school for Vet Science Research, and she's going to be a doctor of it. Needless to say, it's been questioned whether or not she's going to be Dr. (insert her last name) or Dr. (insert our last name). She expressed that she wants it under her last name (which I think would be smart of anyone single, only because of the "what if"), but she also expressed that she doesn't want to hyphenate or have both for the married name.. And, as I told you, she doesn't want his...so this doesn't sound good.

And, true, that might be the best idea, if it needs to be discussed at all. I think my Mom wants to talk to him about it when it's just the two of them but that she is in the same boat as me with not wanting to upset him or come between them- just give him something to consider with marriage. :S It's just pretty sad that this is all so messed up, especially because my grandfather (the one that brought up the idea of a prenup) was the kind to hold his tongue unless it was incredibly important... So, the fact that he brought it up, to me, doesn't mean anything good, rest his soul. :S

I think all of you are right- just have to stand back and watch...maybe handle things incredibly delicately by leaving it to my parents if ever absolutely necessary. :S Thank you, all, and I didn't forget to thank the last two posts- my Thank You button has been acting up lately. It came back for a tiny bit when I was reading through your posts, but it didn't accept it when I tried to thank the last two. :S I promise I'll do that as soon as it comes back- already owe Basil one in another thread.

[chinagirl]

Put your name as a business partner???? :-)

[pcmaster]

Rowen I think you did everything you could. You made your brother to think and that was brave step from you. You can rest assured that bro knew what hes doing when get married. Also if he divorces you will have this "I told ya !" phrase in your pocked lol. I think you should write your biography and include family in it cause this is enough interesting to read already.

[Rowen]

Pffft, his farm would probably blow up if I got involved. hahaha I don't really know much about a lot of the stuff he needs to do- just the basics.


EDIT: Thank you, PC, but honestly, if it didn't work, I'd just try to be there to listen instead...assuming he'd need to talk. I don't think saying, "I told ya so" would be right, but as for the part about the family, I could write a trilogy of everything going on with them because of how screwed up the family is. Haha My brother and mother joke that it's kind of like a tame version of Game of Thrones. lol

[chinagirl]

^^^^Funny!

[pcmaster]

That phrase was actually a joke but if seriously you was risking to scroll up relationship with your brother already when you mentioned marriage. You know you have this protective vibe about your brother. Just like your mother was protective about you when you started seeing Dave. When she wanted to see his drivers license or something. Because she didnt liked the idea when you are seeing twice older man but she was helpless and would look actually silly if she tried to stand against you two.
So you in pretty much the same situation. Even if you think bro is about to make mistake you have to trust him like hes right even when hes wrong because its his life, his rocky road to happiness. You know many people have failed their first marriages - thats not the end of life, people recover and get married again, find happiness again. Besides you are family and you are there for each other so he wont be alone in sadness and happiness.

[Rowen]

So you in pretty much the same situation.

Okay, PC, I'm not really in a situation quite like that...and let me specify why because you have your details wrong.. That wasn't even with Dave. Yes, my mother did not like Dave when I first told her about him. But as soon as I further explained our relationship and what kind of man he is, she relaxed a little and eventually grew to accept it. She would even ask how he was doing and when I was going to see him again.

The guy that you're talking about, though, was when I was 16. That guy (Don) was 24 and was working as a security guard. She wanted to see his drivers license and proof of insurance because I was getting into a car with him on the date...and I was 16. But she also vocalized her disapproval a number of times with Don. I have not said one thing to attack him or his fiance. The only time I spoke up was the above mentioned time, and that took me a year to do. So, no...not really the same situation because I'm keeping a lot of thoughts to myself. Yet you have a point that I am protective about my brother- yes, I am. I think anyone should be protective of their family to an extent (at least in their thoughts- not their actions unless it's dire)..

But, as I've repeatedly mentioned in this thread, I'm not looking to break them up. I'm looking for my brother to think things over clearly and make a sound decision no matter what his decision is... Would I personally be relieved a little if they decided to split up? Yes. I admit that- yes, I would be relieved because I don't think she's right for him.. But if he's going to marry her, that's his decision, PC. As I've said repeatedly, I'm not looking to control him and make him split up with her. But I am looking to give him some things to think about so he's careful even if he does marry her. Yes, I admit that it was risky talking to him about it..which is why it took me a year to actually speak up. So, I guess I'm just going to keep to myself as you've all said...and if things get incredibly bad, I'll step in and/or have my parents step in... But again, that's only if it's extremely bad..

[Exeter19]

i'm going to join the bandwagon and say you shouldn't discuss pre nup with your brother at all, if he thinks the idea is good he'll do it but if his fiancee has him by the balls like you seem to say in your post, he won't rock the boat and bring it up to her ever. just be there for a shoulder to cry on when it all goes to hell.

[Rowen]

Thank you, everyone, I think that's exactly what I'll do. :S Thank you all for your responses!