The Racism Thread

[nomas]

Okay....*cracks knuckles*

Go to the bathroom, grab a snack, do what you have to do now..this one has the potential for some LOONG posts and while I'll do what I can to break it up or try to organize my thoughts as best as I can, knowing me, it can still be a novel sized post. Besides, I'm really excited about this one because I'm sure there will be some strong opinions and even some personal experiences or things we've heard of to share. So for this excitement I may think too much and try to type too much and end up loosing organizational control at some point…

Were we go…

First of all I’d like to say that I have NO clue as to what people in other parts of the world will think of this issue or if they will be able to relate to the varied opinions I’m expecting from people in the US which is where I live and while it is a big country and will have diversity in responses, we are still somewhat connected by the media and may be able to find common denominators better than those outside the US..but again, I don’t know this.

I live in the Southwest of the USA. Have pretty much lived here all my life. I was born in L.A. and lived there till I was five. The way my mother raised us, at this point in my life it’s safe to say I was totally in a bubble.. totally sheltered by my mother. After this we went to live in Mexico (origins of my parents) for 3 years. After this we came back to the States, but close to the Mexican border to where we could always go back to the old motherland and “mothercity” in a moment’s notice should a family emergency occur. Also, in this part of the States, every other person speaks Spanish without a problem. There is a fresh influx of immigrants everyday and I know plenty of illegals living and working here with limited to NO English skills, but the area lends itself to be able to have such a population of people still being able to be part of society.

While I have been brought up in traditional north-mexican values and traditions, I have lived in the states for all but 3 of my 26 years of age…but really, the first 8 years it’s just as good as if they were all spent in Mexico..the way I was at home with my Mom for the first 5 years (as I explained..I’m being redundant already..). In any case..I got plenty of Mexican, but school and the media, and more recently, college and work, exposed me to “the American way”, so to speak.. In this manner, you can say that my experience with american traditions is very, VERY limited. It’s all consisted of TV dramas and comedies, movies, and just a little bit of exposure to actual white people.. As stated, in the area where I live there is a heavy dose of Mexicans and especially in the neighborhoods where I grew up. All Mexicans, almost. School was easily 90% Mexicans. Maybe 7% White and we had a total of less than like 10 black people…they were so scarce they were like celebrities..everyone knew our few black people by name…(as a side note, one of them has got a roster spot in the Atlanta Falcons defense, albeit 3rd string: Sideeq Shabbazz…look him up!)

One more thing I want to mention: Although I speak accent-less Spanish, my physical appearance not being “traditionally mexican” (I’m not that dark in skin) has caused some to mistake me for Caucasian.

I give you all of this information to give you an idea of where I come from with my observations and to, hopefully, be judged as ignorant as opposed to naïve should you think I’m seeing things through a heavy filter or completely blind to the true size of the issue.

Bottom line: I have never experienced racism.

I have never, not seriously, been or seen anyone blurt out a racial slur with the intent to offend.

This does not lead me to believe that the issue is dead and does not exist. By no means. I know it’s out there.

I was going to continue, but I want to open it up at this point and get your perspectives...this way I can reply and break up my posts in this manner..but I will say that from my standpoint, my sheltered standpoint I know it exists..but I don’t see it as something that is systematically killing minorities. Like “the system is out to get us” or anything. But of course, sitting here, free and happy in the southwest, never being bothered under this fair skin, never being pulled over because my skin is dark..anything like that, I’m only seeing the injustices as a select few cases in which people make enough noise to get media attention when in all actuality I only see the tip of the iceberg..as can be the case in media coverage.

Here’s where you people in bigger cities can help me identify how you see it.

Pour out your emotions on this one, guys, and let me ask us to not insult each other, please..and also not to be as sensitive if you feel attacked?? The best communication is sometimes to say things bluntly and I'd like us to exchange a whole bunch of good opinions freely without feeling attacked or afraid to use what you think are the best words in fear of having someone feel hurt. Let's through political correctness out the window for this thread and not take it personally if you think you're being attacked. These are just ideas we're defending..not individuals. Let's all learn a little something.

Freddie

[BillyGalbreath]

Hello. My name is Blake. I'm 22 years of age. Caucasian. Born and raised here in Pasadena, Texas. (starting to sound like an AA meeting already - lol)

Ok, So I've lived in Pasadena all my life with the exeption of 6 months (my pot head days where i left home and went to live with friends). Pasadena is a neghboring city to Houston, and if you weren't from around here you wouldn't know where the city lines are. We are just as heavily populated as H Town. We have every race known to man here. And yes. There is a shit load of racism in our cities here. I've grown up with it. I used to be it.

Like Freddie, I too was raised in a sheltered world only to see what my father wanted me to see. I grew up seeing things the way he does. I didnt know back then, but i do know now.. My dad is a hardcore racist. Just like the rest of my family. I was raised to be a racist. Sad but true.

I'll try to start from the beggining.. before i was born..

When my dad was born these cities were mostly, if not all white. The perfect place to raise a white family. And as times went on, more and more people came here. Whites moved in, mexicans moved in, blacks moved in, chinese moved in, indonesian.. **** man - you name it, they're here. All of a sudden I am born in 1984. These times were mostly white, then next came mexicans, then blacks. The cities were kind of divided. Blacks had their part of town, mexicans had their's, and the white's had theirs. Eventually these sectioned started growing too close together and gangs formed. BIG gangs.

Chaos started to hit the streets. White feared the other races. Mexicans feared the other races. And blacks just didnt give a ****. If you got in their way you'd know it. Eventually the whites moved from their part of the town and started to build a new section in town. The mexicans then moved into these old houses that the whites once lived in. The blacks kinda migrated away to Houston for some reason. Not many blacks left in Pasadena, but some are still here.

ANYWAYS - now times are in the 90's and there are just as many mexicans as whites. The whites started to back off land and bunch up together in the new areas. New mexicans moved in and took over these old white homes. My grandmother's being one of them. She moved because she was the last white person on the block.

My dad moved kinda in the middle of the white and mexican sections. I like to call this the "nutral ground". But in fact it is far from nutral. this area is fille with as much hatred as all the rest. but I was brought up in it. I was brought up with mexican friends and white friends alike. Blacks were a rare thing, and still are. This nutral ground is a peace place. There is racism, but no one acts upon it. Everyone keeps to themselves and things are fine. Someone steps in someone elses yard or cuts down a tree in between two houses and hell is raised. I know i saw my dad fight our mexican neighbors over a stupid tree.

As i got older, I started to realize just how divided this city was. I started to notice all the hate going on, and in some cases I was part of it. I've never started anything racist, but i have been yelled at by mexicans just because i am white, and i have been chased down streets by blacks because i am white.

Ok, so I graduate high school and I'm no longer racist at all. I learned to accept peoples differences and it doesnt bother me. I became comfortable with it all, and i had many friends of many many races. After i graduated I moved in with some friends in houston. We were all white and we lived in a black neighborhood. I was scared shitless living there. I hardly ever went outside or anything. So the racism is gone, but the stereotyping wasnt. To this day you wont catch me alone outside of a white area. I've been jumped many many times just because i am white.

I remember living at those apartments with my friends, we didnt have a phone so we always used the payphone at the store down the street. I would walk there all the time and all the others around were black. I remember walking down the street having mothers and little children step off their porches to watch me walk don the streets and sometimes i would get yelled at and i remember once i had something thrown at me. Scariest times of my life.

If you've ever seen a movie where there is a neighborhood in a crowded city and everyone is black, then you know what i am talking about here. I would be on the payphone and the bums wouldnt come near me to ask for change because they were scared of me just cause i'm a white guy in the middle of a black neighborhood. Lots of people hated me, lots of people were scared of me. things were crazy.

I am going to end this post for now just because its so late and i need to get to sleep for work. I'll continue this another time.

I hope I stayed on subject here, and I hope I've gotten a good image of what I've grown up in. Come to think of it, its more of a nightmare for some than a picture... but for me, this is everyday life i live with.

(To Be Continued...)

[sfalexi]

I'm not a racist. I'm hispanic, and I look hispanic. I don't believe I've every experienced racism, but I tend to be a very easy going, joke-cracking kinda guy and so have gotten along extremely well with anyone.

It's funny, and I bet you never stopped to think about it, but if you look around whatever college you go to, you'll probably notice the 'black' tables and 'white' tables at lunch. For some reason there's never really a well mixed table.

I however, would be the guy that would be invited to sit at the 'all black' table. Or be invited to the 'all white' table. Whoever asked me first to go to dinner. I guess I'm just easygoing enough that they all felt comfortable around me and I felt comfortable around them.

So I'm not a racist (I'm about as far from it as you can get on the scale) and I don't believe I've ever experienced (or at least recognized experiencing) any racism.

I also live in northern NJ where it truly is a huge 'melting pot' as far as racial diversity goes.

Rod Steele

[squirrley]

I am NOT a racist either. I have moved about 45 times in 34 years. Mostly lived in the south or the midwest. As a child lived in the south:Florida mainly. As a kid I had best friends whom were black. And I will NEVER forget about the hate that existed.

My grandfather is extremely racist. And I have ZERO respect for him. On my 12th birthday, my mom threw me a birthday party at my grandparents home, we lived on the lake but they had the dock with the diving board. I could invite ANYONE I wanted but Sharkika Williams. (she was black) and she was also my VERY VERY BEST FRIEND. I couldnt understand at 12 WHY this was such a big deal. And it truly hurt my feelings. I obviously have NOT forgotten it. From that day forth, as time went on, and I grew older, I began to see the hate, and for the life of me, STILL do NOT understand.
In that town, people were divided. There was and still is a section called the "Quarters" where the black people live. Homes are trashed, they sit around by barrells drinking, this is an area white people do NOT drive through. It is known white people do get shot. It was that way in the 80's. I rememeber being in HS as a freshman and a cheerleader and one night after a game, one of the basketball players gave me a ride home, he was black, and his black friends needed a ride home too. We went through the "quarters", and even though I knew, I didnt give a rats ass, I still had best friends who were black. Yes it was an area that I heard about, and it was true, the area was really torn apart. I didnt mind and I wasnt scared. They were people too. And they were my friends. Shortly after that incident, a very close family friend who worked the night shift across the street from the "quarters" was literally slaughtered with a hammer. And the guy was found guilty, he was black. I cant tell you what that did to an already hostile community.

These were the years when a person starts to form ideas, values, beliefs, and or opinions. What an era for me. To this day, I still find racism in that town. In Upper Michigan where its white, we had 2 black families. No one really cared, but whispers were around. Made me sick. And right now, currently I am surrounded by the KKK. YES they do still exist in the county I live in today.

It blows my mind how people can be so racist and filled with so much hatred. People are people. Its that simple. Like I said Ive moved alot in my lifetime, and with my son, I have exposed to him to cultures. While attending Michigan State, you cant get much more diverse there! Whites were the minority. Kyle has developed friends and best friends who are black, and they are welcome into my home, as well anyone he meets who are of a different race.

Its truly sad, that our country is still divided. Where some people dont see it or dont think it doesnt exist, come to old Homosassa. We just had this last year a white man who was arrested for having an arsonal damn boat full of guns in his home, and he plainly admitted it was to shoot the niggers.

God have mercy on their souls. I feel pity for those people who have racism in their heads, its sad. God made people equal. NO ONE is better than the other.

[KirstyM]

I was born in Scotland, UK, but I spent most of the first ten or fifteen years of my life living in Africa, Fiji and Vanuatu where white people were often a minority.

I am not racist at all, it is a subject I feel very strongly about. However I have been accused of being racist a number of times, which was not a very nice thing and difficult to defend yourself against.

Racism isn't so much of a big issue in the UK, or maybe I should say in Scotland. Yes we are mostly white here but that doesnt mean that there are any problems when others do move here.

[cbee]

I've never experienced racism either & freely mix with other races - which being in London was a good thing.

Actually, I lie. We went to Germany once and one of the girls in our year, who was Afro-Caribbean descent was placed in this family who were absolutely horrid to her. Initially they only had her as the exchange partner but then they asked if they could host someone else as well (unfortunately for them the other girl had a german mother and was fluent in German). Apparently they were unbelievably racist but I think what shocked me most was the utter and complete denial of all her other classmates (who were all white themselves). It was as if they couldn't admit to anyone being racist because the Nazi's were still casting a shadow over everything.

Fortunately another black German family, who was also hosting another one of my friends said that she could stay there for the rest of the trip.

While it's bad to be wrongly accused I think it's far worse to let it go unchallenged, by doing that you are condoning the attitudes of others.

Hmmm, thinking about it it sort of ends up in the same category as stuff like rape when it comes to accusations being made. To falsely accuse someone is about the worst thing you can do for people who are really suffering from it. THis is because it makes people automatically start to think that people who are complaining are "making it up" when if you are really suffering from racism then it must be awful to live through.

Also, on another note, Squirrely's thread sort of reminded me of "To Kill a Mockingbird". Boy do I love that book. Kind of a kids take on racism, the little kid who the book is written through the eyes of just can't understand what is going on. It's so sad, and yet from what people have written, exactly the sort of thing which goes on.

[BillyGalbreath]

Are you people for real ? Am I honestly the only one who's ever been jumped just for being the color they are ? Am I the only one that has walked down a street full of another color and be scared shitless that someone was gonna shoot you ? Am I the only one that has walked down a street or go to a store only to get yelled at by a differnt race JUST because I am what I am ?! Am I the only one that lives such a ****ed up life ?! Geesus - no wonder I am so weird compared to you all.

[Zekk_T_Strife]

I used to work at a mall where there was no white clientelle and most of those who did shop there hated white people. Great place to work. I see more reverse racism than I see racism against minorities. I've never seen firsthand any racism against any race minority, but I have seen a few instances of racism against white people.

I did, however, HEAR of this experiment where they took 50 black people (I don't say African American because they're just as American as I am, PC is foolish) with exotic names (Shaniqua, Tyrese, Juju) and had them fill out two sets of applications. One with their birthname and one with a more traditional name (John, Tim, Sam). They found that the original names never recieved any callbacks while the traditional names recieved a lot. Interesting find.

[sfalexi]

Are you people for real ? Am I honestly the only one who's ever been jumped just for being the color they are ? Am I the only one that has walked down a street full of another color and be scared shitless that someone was gonna shoot you ? Am I the only one that has walked down a street or go to a store only to get yelled at by a differnt race JUST because I am what I am ?! Am I the only one that lives such a ****ed up life ?! Geesus - no wonder I am so weird compared to you all.

Nope. But you live in Texas. Which traditionally is a more racist state than NJ so I never experienced it.

I did however joke around a lot with the black guys at my college. One day while walking back from dinner with my two black friends (both of them varisty football players and VERY big guys, one was my roommate) I was walking in between them. When I noticed it I stopped, let them get a little ahead, then stepped to the right so one of THEM was inbetween. When they asked me why I had did it, I responded, "Well, I figure it's dark outside...there's noone around...I'm walking between two black guys...I thought you would try to jump me and take my wallet. So I wanted to leave myself one side free in case you got any ideas to run away." Yeah. My roommate beat my ass for that one!

And they dished it out as well as I received it. When I got a haircut from one of my black friends, I asked to go a #1 all the way around (almost bald). He proceeded to leave a patch of hair in the back of my head in the shape of "mother africa" as he liked to call it and wouldn't clean it up for a few hours. So for a few hours I was walking around sporting Africa on my head.

I did, however, HEAR of this experiment where they took 50 black people (I don't say African American because they're just as American as I am, PC is foolish) with exotic names (Shaniqua, Tyrese, Juju) and had them fill out two sets of applications. One with their birthname and one with a more traditional name (John, Tim, Sam). They found that the original names never recieved any callbacks while the traditional names recieved a lot. Interesting find.

Interesting experiment. And I'm sure it's 100% true. The employers subconsciously were less receptive to their original names. It's like ANOTHER experiment I read in a newspaper....

They had applicants with all different accents fake interview for jobs, then the employers were told to rate them in order of hire. The applicants who were scored the lowest and sounded the "dumbest" (yes, the employers said that their accent was the one that made them sound the least intelligent/capable of handling the job), of course, was New Jersey baby!

I am SOOOO proud of my state! I just don't see what's wrong if I ask the boss how he/she likes his "cawfee" and if they have a "calculata" for me to "yuuuuse".

Rod Steele

[derek]

it took me 1 hour to read it

[sfalexi]

Are you people for real ? Am I honestly the only one who's ever been jumped just for being the color they are ? Am I the only one that has walked down a street full of another color and be scared shitless that someone was gonna shoot you ? Am I the only one that has walked down a street or go to a store only to get yelled at by a differnt race JUST because I am what I am ?! Am I the only one that lives such a ****ed up life ?! Geesus - no wonder I am so weird compared to you all.

Not really "racism", but I once did experience discrimination. When I was back at the military academy, as a freshmen you're not allowed to walk around town in civilian clothing. It's tradition that you walk around in your full service dress (tie, blouse, jacket, hat, etc). When I was walking down a hallway at the local mall, just hanging out with some fellas doing some shopping, we passed up a group of kids who as they passed us by said under their breath several times, "baby killers. baby killers". You know. Doing it the asshole way of disguising it in a cough and shit like that.

I was so pissed that my friends had to hold me back from turning around and going apeshit on those guys. I'm a very patriotic person. And when I know that our troops are dying so that our country can be free, I was PISSED at being called a "baby killer". ESPECIALLY in such an underhanded way.

I'm a very very patient and calm person. I've been smacked. I've been yelled at. I've been shoved. I've been called every dirty name in the book by drunken idiots. And I've never lost my cool. But that day I almost lost it. And for an idea of what that means, the last time I 'lost it', I smashed the offender's head into a linoleum floor knocking them unconscious and placing them in the hospital with such a severe concussion that it was the nurses duty to shake him awake every ten minutes to make sure he didn't slip into a coma that night.

Rod Steele

[squirrley]

damn Alexi, that must have been difficult. Some people are just too ignorant. Cocky sob's who dont know any better. Glad you nailed him!

I still give you a ton of credit for going to the academy.

[blue]

i was born in florida i have lived here alll my life my. I am hispanic. growing up i went to all catholic school, boys and girls thank goodness. in my school there werent any black people. i was raised by my grandparents . i remebmer when i was small we would drive through ceratin neiorhoods and my grammy would say lock all your doors i did not undesatnd this at all i thought that people were just people, but that was from all the fear and the news and just from the plain fact that there are alot of things going on out there in the world whther it be a black person beating up a white person or vise versa.FACT is there alot of ****ed up people out there no matter what color! i dont think thats a matter of color at all at least it shouldnt be. its ****ing ignorance and fear of knowing the unknown.

when i turned 12 i moved a little north of mia and my life changed, i went to public school and yeah there were alot of hispanics blacks and all kinds of everything yeah in middle school there were cliks of people but isnt it that way anywhere? in a white school whatever black school the cool kids the nerds the chearleaders and jocks. yeah it is that way.

i went to high school and there were all kinds of people, white girls went out with balck boys vise versa and all that. in school now and i have alot of black girlfriends and they are like family to me.

no matter what there will always be haters in this world, always be racsicm in some shape or form. blue

[nomas]

Something that I was expecting was indeed brought up.

I've already explained my background what the limits of what I've seen/experienced are. In this limited experience, I've noticed and have come to sympathize more with a lot of the whites on the matter. I think that the majority of people are basically good. Regardless of race..I'm talking about just people. So whites are a majority in the states..therefore there will be a greater number of white good people...as well as a greater number of white bad people, or racist people, than any other race. The good people won't make the news headlines because non-scandalous news is not what the people want to see. So you only hear of the racist white folk committing a hate-crime. Of course this is bad, but the messed up thing is that some will go on to paint all whites with the same brush. You don’t often hear of a minority committing a hate-crime and my speculation is: a) the numbers as I’ve said before..since minorities are by definition less in numbers, the total number of cases will be less. And b) maybe the press is afraid to make a bigger fuss over such a case lest they be labeled racists for reporting on minorities doing bad things. It’s like they have to walk on eggshells when referring to minorities these days.

About racism I don’t feel as passionately about. I know in some instances there may be little you can do about it and you can’t escape being a victim of someone’s hate. But for the most port, the MAJORITY of the time, I think you do have control and while there will be racists out to get minorities, these very people are a minority and should be dealt with individually. Even in the case where you live in a city where there is a considerable percentage of the people being racists, I believe in this country it’s easy enough to move.

I am more passionate, however, on the attitude we take on it. The making a fuss over the Taco Bell dog depicting Mexicans in a negative light on account of a talking dog with an accent is what I don’t agree with. I say don’t be so sensitive. I think people have evolved now and with each generation there are more and more educated people who don’t see the point in hating someone over skin color. But we as minorities add fuel to the fire and continue to separate ourselves from the rest of the Americans with these attitudes. Especially those of reverse discrimination. That’s just as bad! And I think it’s even more common because I think it’s a sociological matter of education.

As some people are posting, in other countries there is no racism issue. In Mexico, I know, there is none. If someone is different, you are not looked upon as better or worse..just different. No different than someone who is excessively fat or wears glasses or whatever..my friends in Chihuahua make fun of each other over their differences, but it’s all in good fun..like alexi’s example. Comedy is based on irony and exaggerations like that. But the point I’m trying to make is that the countries that don’t know racism are those who don’t have heavy immigration. Even at the city level..if your city does have a lot of immigrants, that fuels racism some. This is because usually immigrants are basically people down on their luck that couldn’t make it in their own country. Such was the case for my dad, for example. He didn’t have the benefit of an education, growing up in a farm in a third world country, he was not doctor, lawyer, or engineer. As a laborer he’d be many times better here in the States than in Mexico and for the sake of providing for his family as best he could he immigrated here. Such was the way America was formed. It has a long history of immigrants which, no matter how far back you can trace your ancestry, is how most of us got here.

People resist change…they don’t like it. This is why immigrants will group together in their own neighborhoods and try to conserve the old ways of the motherland. This is the case anywhere. Like-people stick together and while it’s not based on hate for other races, it’s twisted and sometimes pushed toward this view by these very divisions we create amongst ourselves. That is something that’s hard to change…but eventually it does. It takes a couple of generations, but it does.

I visited the Ellis Island museum when I went to New York a couple of years ago. Now this was the place where loads of European immigrants came into the states last century. Here you find loads of stories about how bad the immigrants had it, and how the Irish had their communities and the Italians had theirs and the Polish and the Germans, etc. etc. They all claimed to feel the oppression of “the man” much in the same way I see Hispanics complain about today.

Today you don’t hear of Italians being oppressed, or Irishmen, or Polish…at least I don’t hear it. Everyone just calls them American. This leads me to believe that after a couple of generations…once you get past the generation of, like say my dad who didn’t have a chance to climb higher than a very modest job here, I was able to receive an education and really feel the sky is the limit. It was in me, really. I was given the opportunity to study and I did. If I didn’t have the ease with books, here at least I have a greater opportunity if I was an artist or had any other talent. I believe I have every opportunity a white contemporary has. So like an Italian or Irishman I’m now assimilated. I DO believe that. But the argument against this may be that these Europeans are, at least, of the arian race and thus a black man or an asian may never pull it off because it’s an issue of race as well as education.

Let me shift and talk about the studies mentioned about how you can be stereotyped over an ethnic name:

The fact, I think, is not that people hate a race..but in business you want to make your best bets. In my personal experience..going to high school, there were mainly Mexicans. Many didn’t excel in school and this I attributed to the kids being fresh immigrants, sons and daughters of immigrants. They grew up at home with Mexican culture, Spanish language…in essence an entirely different world than the one at school. Having parallel structures to learn, I’ve noticed that many will adopt a half-assed approach and learn neither very well. I think that we are motivated to do good when we see we’re achieving something…it encourages you to keep moving forward..but if you cannot excel in anything, your motivation is killed and you settle for just getting bye. Thus these kids are not the sharpest at school and generally end up uninspired to become educated. So moving on to college you have many more white kids…majority in this setting. Hence, more white people are more educated. Now I’m in a professional setting. Whites are a majority. Most of the well educated people I know here in the states are white.

This may put it in our heads that your chances for a well educated, qualified employee may come from the ranks of the whites. Numbers alone favor this trend..that’s irrefutable mathematical probability. I showed my observations as to why this it, but maybe a more careless observer will just see the end result: white’s are more educated, minorities are less educated (i.e. ignorant), and just conclude that race has to do with education when in fact it’s just the societal issues and not the race.

I totally shifted away from what I was saying about our attitudes..our hostile attitudes as minorities to blame the white man…when you don’t realize you have more control than you think..I think.. In the meantime we add fuel to the fire by the reverse discrimination..often times against non-racist folk. We whine-whine-whine, march and protest, demand affirmative action, making ourselves look bad, in my opinion.

But I have many arguments against myself on this last paragraph too…but this is long enough..I’ll let you tell me why my thinking is flawed.

Freddie

[sfalexi]

Today you don’t hear of Italians being oppressed, or Irishmen, or Polish…at least I don’t hear it. Everyone just calls them American.

Which reminds me. Sometimes people get annoyed when I describe someone as "black". And they say, "Why don't you say "African American?" I tell them, "Cause I'm not SURE that they're african american. They could be haitian. They could be jamaican. They could be puerto rican. There's no guarentee that they're AFRICAN. But one thing I do know. And that is that the color of their skin, is black." Just a warning not to call every black person "african american". Just like you wouldn't call every white person "italian" or every asian person "chinese".

Let me shift and talk about the studies mentioned about how you can be stereotyped over an ethnic name:

The fact, I think, is not that people hate a race..but in business you want to make your best bets.

I both agree/disagree with you here. It looks like (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you're addressing the above study with the ethnic names versus names such as "Tim" and whatnot. In this case, the study DOES show unfair discrimination. Whether the company wants to make a 'best bet' or not, should be based on the QUALIFICATIONS of the person. Which does not include the 'name'. What if there was a white person named "Tyrese" who was denied employment. Then it's not about race anymore, but about judging a name.

However I DO agree that making the best bet is sometimes lost in this world. Sometimes people cry out "racism" as a way to protect themselves or as a way to ignore the fact that they are just not worthy. For instance, lets say a black man who was imprisoned for embezzlement 15 years ago has been out for five years and wants to get a job in accounting. And he is applying at the same time a white man with NO criminal record is. Given equal qualifications, which would you pick? Hell, give the black man a slight advantage and I'd STILL pick the one with no criminal record. However what's not to say that he doesn't cry out, "RACISM!!!!" to the local papers or anything and point out that he was more qualified? Some people use it as a blanket and so I believe that racism gets a little more of a bad rap in the news than it should. Yes I do believe it's honestly there, but I do think that it's probably exxaggerated somewhat.

This is also where people make a fairly strong argument against "reverse-racism" and they usually point to affirmitave action. Schools are required to save a certain amount of slots for people with certain ethnicities based on whatever 'quota' they have. That means that (and I'll use small, round numbers just to get the point across), if a school has to have 100 incoming freshmen, they may have to save 10 slots for 'african-americans', 5 for 'hispanics', 3 for 'asian' and maybe 2 for 'native american/eskimo'. Lets say that you have 100 'caucasian' applicants (who all very much exceed the minimum requirements to join) and you have 10, 5, 3, and the 1 of the respective minorities apply that aren't as good as the 100th caucasian, but DO meet the minimum requirements. That means that caucasians in the bottom 20 spots, although they are more fit to attend that school than the minorities, are rejected in order to fill that affirmitive action quota.

There are many arguments for/against this. You can say that minorities make less money and live in poorer neighborhoods and so usually get less quality of education than caucasians. But then you can argue that even though the quality of the education is worse, there's no reason why they can't work hard in their schools to maintain a high GPA regardless. The list goes on and on.

As for me, I'm against affirmitive action. I've been to a very bad school system. I've been to a very good school system. I was accepted to two and attended one top college in the US. I left and am now in one of the lower colleges in the US. I've seen/done it all. And personally, from what I see, anyone can make it anywhere if they try hard enough. I've seen in EVERY system, people that strived and succeeded, and people that didn't try and failed. I think it should be up to the person, not up to the race as to whether you land your job, your choice of college, etc.

Rod Steele