When should I give up fighting? (to get her back)

[jonas22]

So I''l try to be brief.
My GF left me in quite an ugly way - for various reasons - she felt I was'nt able to love her in the way that she needed or wanted.
We hav'nt been able to discuss the break-up. I was'nt able to discuss things when she wanted due to circumstances really beyond my control.
It was a fairly new relationship (although we were living together) and she interpreted certain situations as me betraying her.

The way she left me (and the way she was cheating on me) suggests that her behaviour was partly retributory - to show me - that I should have loved her in the way that she wanted.

But, again due to circumstances, not of my own making, there were things that I was unable to do, not because I did'nt want to.
She felt alone and desperately needed someone.

I was furious and angry. I sent alot of 'nasty' texts, hoping to make her realise her terrible behaviour and the ugly way in which she left me - this disturbed her very much - which was the intention - however in addition and after this period of 'furious' messages I've attempted to make her realise that I did indeed love her very much - but due to circumstances and my 'stupid' politics it was not possible to show this - due to being pyscholigically and emotionally drained

I underestimated her fragility and/ or lack of independence.

I've been sending her flowers - in the past week every other day - now you may think that this is not the way to get a girlfriend back - especially as she is seeing somebody else ( but this girl is terribly romantic) and the flowers and gifts, text messages explaining the situation etc are making up for all the time that I was away from her and should have been doing this, but did'nt.

She said some things in the past designed to make me fight for her - i.e. when she suggested temporary separation - i was like, yes, fine. In fact I was angry and irritated with her - but I was unable to fight, but not because I did'nt want to. But for a young girl, she was evidence that I did'nt care - even though she knew i was very very tired.

Now, I have full energy - I'm able to fight. And when she questioned me yesterday by text, "Are you serious, are you trying to get me back"- I felt unashamed to say yes, I have to fight now, what else can I do. I was'nt able to before and you know why this was - so forgive me for trying." using all the words of love and reason I can think of - again everything that should have been said before.

Her last text message "Why would you want to be with me after all those things we've said and done to each other"
I'm able to explain very easily to her all the reasons for any questions that she has.
(and previously in the day after receiving some flowers from me (the 4th Delievery in the week) - "The flowers were beautiful. Very beautiful. Thank you")

She has'nt said to me, 'Do not hope, its really never going to be possible, I'm in love with somebody else'

Obviously I'm not sure what she's thinking. She has a very stubborn mind. As I've said, she had reasonable justification for thinking that I did'nt love her enough or felt that her love was'nt being returned and her actions and she has partly admitted were (subconsciously as least) retributory and/or designed to give pain to me.

At what point do I give up fighting for her - how am I able to understand that she is a battle I cannot win?
Obviously my attempts to 'win' her back or at least have a second chance are causing her some distress - I would imagine that she would not like to prolong this pain for me past a certain point - as I never actually did anything so bad to her.
What signal or lack of signal should I wait for?

[kiwipiano]

i think sending her those nasty messages in the first place wasnt the best way to make her realised her mistake. Then the sending the flowers after that... If i was her I'd be confused at what you really want. All in all i think it's best if you guys could arrange time to see each other face to face and sort things out. Text message can be misinterpretated. If then when you guys talk it over and there's still no solution that's when you should decide whether or not you should give up. Sorry dont know if this advice helps but i guess its better if you give the talk a go, at least there'll still be that slim chance. Sometimes things just take a bit of time for us to realise what we want.

[jonas22]

@Kiwi. The nasty text messages were in the circumstances not unusual behaviour - i'd just found out through checking her phone that she had been seeing somebody else and then other things quickly fell into place - i.e. a message from her tellign me that,"I'm going to the beach with my friend, her brother and his dog Ill send you pics X" (you see I was away working for weeks), was in fact a lie. She was going with a new guy (a friend apparently at the time) and she did indeed send me pictures of herself, on a cold english beach - no sunbathing or anything - taken I found out by her new man. You see, the context and the message here, was to "Show me" and to presumably, subconsciously at least, to teach me, that I should have taken her to the beach on her "name day" (its a Russian/Soviet bloc thing if you're not familair with these celebrations. I did'nt organise it - partly because of laziness, tiredness and also partly bec going to the beach when she wanted wouldnt have been such a great idea - with the shitty weather, shitty beach (english beaches generally are) and bad traffic. As it was I did suggest something else which in my opinion would have been better and I also bought her something very nice. So im not a total moron about forgetting what for her was an important day.

The 'nasty" text messages, were sent because as I was angry with what I perceived her behaviour to be nasty, retributory and vindictive. I did'nt do lots of things for her that I should have done, not becuase I didnt want to, but much more because I was unable to.

The "nasty" text message period ended 4 weeks ago. although I'm over that period of fury. I'm still very angry and have been instead writing to explain the situation i.e. can understand why you thought I didnt care, how I didnt want to deal with her crying when I was away working, because although it was very difficult also for me to be away from her, I couldnt let it affect my work. She only had to wait just a few more weeks then I would have been all hers and I would have given her all the love and attention that she had been missing from me.

As it was, "I needed air"
She was more fragile than I thought and due to the whole situation that in many ways she has created for herself, she's taking a double dosage of anti-depressant and having therapy - and would like to blame me for this.
Point to Note - she was alone in a new city. I was away working - contracts that had been decided before I had met her.

She doesnt seem to want discuss anything. Although she is reading my emails. But very little response.

The flowers being sent are not in relation to the text messages, I dont regret what I said, thats how I felt at the time.
The text messsages can not be misinterpretated. I meant it at the time. And were sent to her as a consequences of her actions - which were partly designed to hurt me - as a consequence of her believing that I didnt care about her, or didnt loive her in the way that she wanted or needed.

As Ive said her behaviour was shocking, selfish and partly designed to cause pain to myself.

The flowers are being sent along other things and emails, letters are to show or make-up the time and to make her believe that I really do care about her - and to show her a love that I have for her that she started to believe wasnt there before - because I wasnt with her and in her mind, wasnt caring so much that I wasnt with her.

[jonas22]

No is not possible to meet and talk if she is seeing somebody else. However Im not entirely sure on the exactly dynamics of this relationship/ She probably feel into somebody else's arms who appeared caring and wanting to - for example - take her to the beach - I wasnt around to do this.

However, I have no good reason to belive that this new relatiiionship she immediately went into is so real and perhaps there are reasons to think that she is not so sure about it - obviously, I would want to destabilise the relationship she is in now

[cohen_girl]

First off, she was cheating on you! That's no way to get attention or get you to love her. If she cheated before and you get her back, who's to say that when things don't go how she planned that she won't cheat again. Sounds like you'd be better off without her.

[BeingAlpha]

First -- I apologize because I am going to be harsh and frank.

She was cheating on you -- yeah you took her for granted but she is a person who was unable/willing to break up with you because her needs were not met before being with someone else. I question her morals.

Have you re-read your post and notice that you keep making excuses for her -- for "being a young, fragile, girl?" -- stop it -- there is nothing that justifies her cheating on you.

Why would she believe you that you would ever change and treat her with the level of respect and love that she needs / wants. You treated her badly (took her for granted), followed that up with some angry nasty texts, and then tried to make it all better by sending her flowers...um...you can't buy her love with flowers every day, every other day etc.. its contrived.

Take this relationship as a lesson -- open communication, don't take people for granted, hold your tongue / fingers before you send that nasty-gram.

It will get better -- you will heal -- for right now leave the girl alone, shes been through a lot/put you through a lot...give you and her a chance to breathe. If you want to try to reach out in a month or so -- reach out -- but not right now.

[jonas22]

@being Alpha
yes, she was cheating on me, I hav'nt denied that. But she had some ideas that I was deceiving her - which is very very borderline and she felt undesired - BUT, this has to be seen context - FOR example - to give 2 - I come back from work (now my work involves being away from home from one week to 3 weeks - its intense - stressful - dealing with people (the public) making all kinds of demands on me etc. When I return, I'm really finished. I can hardly speak or do anything except sit and relax at least for a day or two. She's wanting passionate displays of affection (i.e. mad, passionate love) as soon as walk in through the door. Obviously I'm irritated that she would make such a demand and secondly, irritated that she should want to place a judgement on my feeling to her from a situation like this.

I did'nt take her for granted.
I did an awful lot for her - (this relationship was fairly young (from November 2009- was living with her very soon after meeting her in another country for 2 1/2 months - I gave up my whole holiday period to be with her - then a break of 6 weeks, after which she comes to live with me in London (April)- I had to find a place in a rush for us - as at that time I wasnt living with her). So I was doing all these things to make it possible to be with her - including to help her find a job.
However from April to, lets say - when I understood that she was seeing somebody - mid August - 4 1/2 months - but in that time I was actually at home for a total of only 40 days.
And its reasonable to think that actually she did not have anything sexual with this other person till she told me that she wanted (temporary separation (Aug 26). She asked me what I thought about this - and I was irritated that I should be confronted with this situation - as I was exhausted and not in a position to make a reply - and so said fine - although it was clear I wasnt fine with it. As I've said, I was unable to fight for the situation (which she later told me she hoped or wanted that I should do).

The reason she did'nt tell me that she was seeing someone before, was because she was concerned that it would affect my work. In fact she was plannign to tell me that she was seeing someone, after she had left my apartment and a few weeks in the future.
I accelerated the relationship with her new man by askign her to leave immediately and was forced to live with him for a few weeks(although now she is living alone). She accused me of throwing her out on the street. but I felt it was hardly right that she ws still in my apart (even though I woudlnt be there).

"Why would she believe you that you would ever change and treat her with the level of respect and love that she needs/wants"
Because she's seen how I can be - and the reason for not being able to give her the attention that she needed from the time that we started living together in London was, well, I wasnt actually there for most of the time - and as Ive mentioned the work contracts I had couldnt be changed and were organised before I had even thought I woudl be living with her. She also understood that these contracts would finish by the beginning of October - so she didnt have long to wait till i would have all the time for her.

The nasty texts, were as consequence to not necessarily breakign up with me but more to do with the way that she did this, which I thought to be very ugly.

"If you want to try to reach out in a month or so - - reach out - - but not right now"
But the separation was in mid-August. Its now October. From mid-August to beginning of October, I was unable to give my full attention to the situation due to work. Now i have full energy and can fight for her in the way that she wanted.

[jonas22]

@cohen_girl.
"First off, she was cheating on you! That's no way to get attention or get you to love her. If she cheated before and you get her back, who's to say that when things don't go how she planned that she won't cheat again. Sounds like you'd be better off without her."
She was seeing someone who was able to give her attention when I was not able to - because I was away. She needed to be wanted and loved. Yes she only needed to wait a little longer till things would be corrected in our rel. But, she had some complex issues. she was a 'self-harmer' - i.e been cutting her wrists since perhaps 14 years old (now if you're not familiar with this kind of behaviour - and I was'nt - yes, its partly for attention but also partly to ease the pain of other situations - mainly her parents relationship - and the abscence of love in that - the only reasons they stayed together was for her. she was on antidepressants. She hated and loved her mother. For the pain that she had caused her father and hated her for wanting her to be number one - for example - she was representing her country around the world in talent competitions - when very young - i.e. between 7 and 11 - kind of like a young version of Miss World. Now, what makes this more complicated is - perhaps you can only understand this if you have had actually experience - but her mother was Russian and also a little bit crazy (again due to her background) and her father Latvian. This can cause some problems in the mind.

[jonas22]

right then. So nobody really gave answered the question. The previous posters did not read the detail in my post.
The question was what signal should I receive or not receive from her which will unequivocally tell me that there is absolutely no point in trying.

Also please note that this girl often wants what she does not want or need. So just because she tells me not to do something, it does not mean that I shouldnt do it.

[basicsarcasm]

So, I'm going through this now. I spent 5 months dating someone and another 5 months chasing him. It never got better. I was in the same situation. Except it was doomed from the start. Please listen to what I'm saying and here me because you can save yourself from hoping for something that will never happen. Once we broke up and he started dating other women I kept myself around and tried to pursue him. He loss respect for me. He ignored me even worse than ever. I sent nasty e-mails and tried to break up his relationships thinking if he'd only see me we could be together, but it never worked. He never respected me and used me. Don't let that happen. Realize that if you walk away now beofre you start being pathetic or doing things that cannot be taken back you might have a future with her, but to be honest if it's bad now... It will be later. Don't hold up your life and feel like you're the one missing out. That's how she gets the upper hand. You got yourself thinking you can't live without her and you can. Change the way you're thinking. It will help you so much.

Right now you're in the guilt stage, feeling like you did everything wrong and she was the good one and you caused the break up, but a relationship never fails because of one person. You need to either talk to a friend or find spiritual peace. When you're in it you can't see the whole picture. You're probably feeling like a crazy insane mental patient, and she is the only one who can restore your mental state, but that's a lie. You control how you feel.

Listen to me. If you can't all the way. Atleast stop with the flowers/texts/emails/call/whatever contact. It's not helping. She will not respect you if she does come back and in the end you won't be able to be with her because of that.

[Agape]

The way she left me (and the way she was cheating on me) suggests that her behaviour was partly retributory - to show me - that I should have loved her in the way that she wanted.

+

I was furious and angry. I sent alot of 'nasty' texts, hoping to make her realise her terrible behaviour and the ugly way in which she left me - this disturbed her very much - which was the intention - however in addition and after this period of 'furious' messages I've attempted to make her realise that I did indeed love her very much - but due to circumstances and my 'stupid' politics it was not possible to show this - due to being pyscholigically and emotionally drained

You should move on . . . she cheated and you purposely tried to emotionally hurt her. . . it not going to work out

[jonas22]

@basicsarcasm

I spent 5 months dating someone and another 5 months chasing him. It never got better. I was in the same situation

Our situations our very differentr - the dynamics of the relationship, context and circumstances. I spent 2/3 days dating her. 6 weeks in online communication, then I decided to go back for her, spent a week or so dating, then I was living with her in her apartment for 2 1/2 months. I gave up my whole holiday period to do this. Then after a break of 6 weeks, it was decided that she would leave her home, family and friends and live with me in London. So and this was unavoidable really the important part of a relationship of dating and courting process was missing. We understood that this could be a problem, but could be rectified at a later date.

Except it was doomed from the start.

There was nothing evident in our relationship to suggest that it was doomed from the start

Once we broke up and he started dating other women I kept myself around and tried to pursue him

I don't think I'm keeping myself 'around' and I don't think I'm trying to pursue her, however I am trying to put my case forward, which i was not able to do at the time, either whilst we were living with each other, because I was just too tired, exhausted to do this, and was not able to do this at the time or shortly after she separated from me - because of work. The energy required to do this, would have been too great. It was not possible to give 100% in my work and deal constructively with the situation.
She attacked me whilst I was already down - or not in a position to respond as I should or as she expected me to, or as she wanted me to. You see she is a very impulsive, impatient girl, often making decision which, result in circumstances or situations that, would have turned out better for her (and us) if she had waited just a little longer.

I sent nasty e-mails

But were these justified? Was it a consensual break-up? Were you able to discuss the situation before you broke up. I was not able to. Normally if things are not working out in a relationship there is discussion and a attempt to find resolution. In our situation, there was actually nothing so seriously wrong. But because I was not able (due to unavoidable circumstances) to put her mind at rest all the time it became a serious problem for her.
I don't regret sending 'nasty' messages. Under the circumstances, they were perfectly normal. I meant what I said at the time and I felt it. She was slightly surprised at this, because she actually thought I did'nt care so much for her. Lots of times she put me through tests, to test my jealousy. But Im not a teenager and so don't react in the same way that she might have experienced before.

She needed to be patient and she would have understood that my love for her, was true and strong. Look she had some serious personality disorders - she was a cutter, very complex issues in regard to her parents relationship which was spilling over into how she behaved to me. She would cry at the way her mother would had behaved to her father, wanted them to be together, but also wanted them to be apart. They were apparently only together because of her. And as I've said 50% Russian - a side she did not like, but it started to take control. All the things she complained about not liking in regards to her mothers behaviour - hysterical jealousy, beheaviour designed to hurt her father, deep issues of not feeling understood and loved she was displaying.
Another reason for wanting to think that all is not lost, is that, she'd done something similar before, i.e. cheating on her long-term boyfriend, (sub-consciously) as a cry to him, a message, that he should take more care of her, treasure her more. They got back together I think, but the damage was done, he was incredibly hurt, never really forgave her and the result was that he then cheated on her as retributory tactic.

He ignored me even worse than ever.

She's not ignoring me worse than ever. Obviously she found it difficult to respond to a stream of accusations. Which was a natural reaction.But that's not the case now. I'm not accusing her, I'm having the time now to explain the situation(s). And she's reading all of this - although so she says. She has'nt had time to respond to this - as I only started this a few weeks ago - as I didnt have the energy or time to do this before.

...thinking if he'd only see me we could be together

No I don't think that if she'd only see me we could be together. I don't want to see her - before many issues have been resolved - everything that she had wanted to be resolved before but was'nt possible. Its not fair to blame myself for not being able to resolve before - I mean it really was'nt possible - due to my work and also not physically being there.

He never respected me and used me

You mean during the relationship or after you had broken up and he was seeing other people? But why do you think he needed to reconsider to getting back together with you. Was there good evidence to suggest that discussion as to the various differences in your relationship were needed? You see I didnt have the chance to discuss the issues. In relationships we all use each other to a certain extent, perhaps to resolve various psychological issues in our past. Its not yet confirmed to what extent she used me. There is no denying that she was loving me very much - there was alot of respect - but her behaviour, as I've explained was very disrespectful, but it also has to be it into the context of her perception that I had disrespected her - which if the whole picture is to be seen is not actually true.

Realize that if you walk away now before you start being pathetic or doing things that cannot be taken back you might have a future with her, but to be honest if it's bad now... It will be later

Well I could'nt 'walk away' previously, before I had 'discussed' and explained everything that should have been explained before. When it actually needed to be. IF i had full prescence of mind, when she came to me on the balcony and put my arms around me to ask 'what happened to us', I would have been able to reasonably easily put her mind at rest. That's the frustrating situation. I was suffering from chronic fatigue and was under strong psychological pressure, from my work situation (to come home after 3 weeks of this pressure, 21 days of not more than 5hrs sleep a night - to a young girl who is suffering from depression, self-harming and needing therapy - well yes, if i had known her mind was so unstable I would not have taken the all the contracts that had been agreed). If I had full power, I would have been able to fight for her, when she wanted to me to.
I'm not sure that my behaviour now could be considered to be pathetic.

Don't hold up your life and feel like you're the one missing out.

Well as much as I feel I might be missing out, although to be honest, life would possibly much more simple and less complicated, less stressful without her, but then again, life without women few would disagree, would indeed be easier. But then we don't live our lives for them to be easier. At the same time, I believe she is missing out, by not wanting to continue the relationship to its natural ending. Which is a break-up after understanding that our differences are irreconcilable or life together, happy forever. She decided to pull the plug, before things were really broken.

That's how she gets the upper hand

Its difficult to see how she would think that she has the upper hand. She's created a situation which has, left her in a more difficult situation and more psychological problems. Its unfair to suggest, that I have helped to create these problems by making her realise the disadvantages of ther impulsive, impatient self-destructive behaviour. As result of her behaviour, she's in financially not in a good situation, she's on a double-dosage of anti-depressants and is under-going pyscho-therapy. Yes, she feels bad. She is in a completely unncecessary situation.

Right now you're in the guilt stage, feeling like you did everything wrong and she was the good one and you caused the break up, but a relationship never fails because of one person.

Yes, its true, I should have done things in a slightly different way, but she is also to suffering from a great deal of guilt, but her actions - the way she broke up, was becase she was breaking down. She acted out of self-preservation - but it had the opposite effect.

You're probably feeling like a crazy insane mental patient, and she is the only one who can restore your mental state

Well, perhaps. I'm feeling a passion for her, that I was unable to before, that she was complaining I was unable to show her - but that was, as I kept telling her because of work.
I'm able to see the situation and the dynamics of our relationship with a greater lucidity that I was able to before. And, gosh, no, she would certainly not be the one who can help my mental condition.

Atleast stop with the flowers/texts/emails/call/whatever contact. It's not helping

The nasty texts being sent, were under the circumstances perfectly normal and natural - and doesnt now happen.
The flowers, a total of 5 /6 delieveries were sent over a period of 10 days (every other day). They were never intended to go past this period.
I dont think this disturbed her. And I received responses from her, that gave me the impression that she appreciated them. I mean they were chosen carefully and also they were not intended as I explained to her, to get her back, but more to make-up for all the time that I was away and 'ignoring' her, or not having time for her..
The emails and explanations are important to explain in order put my case forward and to discuss things that were not possible to do before.
And I don't call her now.

Hey, thanks for your input, but our situations were I think very different.

[jonas22]

Part of the orginal question has still not been answered, which was, what signal from her should I receive or not receive to understand that I shouldnt try anymore.

[jonas22]

@Agape

You should move on . . . she cheated and you purposely tried to emotionally hurt her. . . it not going to work out

You mean in the same way that Tony Blair kept telling people to do so after the illegal invasion of invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and after lieing to the British Parliament in order to justify action. i.e. what's done is done, rightly or wrongly, it serves no good purpose to discuss the legality of the process (not to mention the great waste of public funds spent on legal enquiries).

Are you saying that I should move on BECAUSE she cheated on me, regardless of circumstances.
There is a disagreement between me and her, as to the extent to which she cheated on me. For example, she did'nt have sexual relations with this this other guy, before she says that she had officially separated from me, although for me she was cheating on me by even involving herself with another guy, whose intentions were not platonic. My girlfriend had the idea that i was cheating on her, by involving myself in online communication with an ex-girlfriend even though it was clear to see that there was no indication that that there should be any threat from her to our relationship. However she gave me an ultimatum to never contact her again - which I disagreed with at first, but finally relented - but I apparently broke this, by responding to texts or online chat to her.

Are you saying that people have cheated on each other should break-up?


I purposely tried to emotionally hurt her?
Is that reason for to think that the relationship cant work out?
First of all, its not so unusual in relationships to say bad things to each other or to deliberately hurt each other emotionally and under the circumstances, with the 'nasty' text messages, it was a fairly normal reaction.
In addtion, the main thrust of my communication with her, is not intended to hurt her emotionally (I should have been more clear in this), but to make her realise and reconsider a few things in regard to the dynamics of the relationship and her, what I believe to be be rash, impulsive, impatient, irrational, partially vindictive, retributory, self-destructive in contradiction self-preserving and ulitmately not well thought out or considered.
Undeniably the results of this would, its fair to presume cause her emotional distress, but not the intended result.

"..its not going to work out"

Because she cheated on me and the results of my actions created emotional distress?

Thats rather a rash judgement I would say.

[Poetic_Partner]

I'll reiterate the other posts' advice to move on. The time to fight is over (just like Iraq, eh?).

If you insist on fighting, what are you fighting for? "Fight for your love", to me, means "fight for your love's happiness". That likely means the fight is internal - a fight against your jealousy and insecurity. It means wish her well in her new relationship.

-PP