Freind's fiance and me

[Rossi]

There is a girl that I really like, one problem, she's engaged to one of my best friends.

Here's the story. His name is Carl and her name is Laura. They've been going out for about 2 years, been engaged a year, and not planning on getting married until 2008. I first met her about 2 years ago, and she came out a few times when we had nights out. I spoke to her a bit, but not a lot. We got on reasonably well, but I used to find her laugh (very loud) quite irritating.

Carl organised a trip to Amsterdam a couple of months ago. 7 of us went. The first night on the ferry, we all went to the bar and got quite drunk. When that closed, me and Laura decided to stay up, and we talked and drank until about 6:30am. Carl was in a bit of a mood, and went to bed at about 2:00am. We had loads of fun, and still talk about that night. We got talking to someone who, after a while, told us that he thought we were a couple, by the way we acted around each other. He also said that while I had been talking, Laura had been staring at me, licking her lips. Something that she reminded me about the next day, then laughed off.

From then on, we've been much closer. For the 3 days that we were away, we stuck together a lot more. Carl obviously felt left out as we were both having much more fun together, but he has never said anything about it.

After Amsterdam, I emailed Carl a few photos of the weekend, which he passed on to Laura. She replied to me, thanking me for them, and we've been emailing each other since then. She often emails me when she is bored at work, and we'll send emails back and forward until she leaves. Some of the emails are quite flirty (both ways), but she's always like that. She also got my mobile number off Carl, and has sent quite a few texts and rang a few times.

For a few days after Amsterdam, I was feeling really depressed and was missing her. A couple of weeks after Amsterdam, we had another night out, just 4 of us, Carl, Laura, Me and another friend, Gary. A similar thing happened, me and Laura spent most of the night together talking and drinking, and that left Carl and Gary together. I found out later that Carl really wasn't enjoying the night, but me and Laura didn't even notice. We left one bar about 15 minutes after the other two, as we hadn't noticed them leave. Well later on, we went to get something to eat, and what seemed like it came from nowhere, Carl lost it with me. Telling me to F*** Off, shouting at me, then finally throwing a can of coke at me before storming off. We didn't see him again that night. Gary went looking for him, leaving me and Laura alone. She was really angry with him, and I jokingly said, "Yeah, well you're marrying him". She made a face that seemed to say "I wish I wasn't", so I asked "Do you really want to marry him?", and again, she made a disappointed face and said "hmm". Anyway, Gary couldn't find him so we ended up just getting a taxi without him. He phoned me at about 5:00am and left a message on my voicemail apologising for "acting like a complete dickhead". Laura also text me the morning after asking if he'd apologised, and saying what he did was "totally out of order", and added, "I don't think he likes it when we talk, but I think we get on well. It's not as if we were shagging or owt". She has said in an email that his moody behaviour wont spoil our nights when we are out together, and that she has a lot of fun when we are together. He wont tell either of us why he threw the can, but the rest of us agreed that he didn't like us being as close as we were. Even now I don't think I did anything wrong, we were only talking. Anyway, me and Carl are still friends, but he acts slightly differently now.

For the 3 days after, I couldn't stop thinking of her. I couldn't concentrate at work, was feeling really down, and was missing her loads, even feeling physically sick. Over the next couple of weeks I thought about her less and was feeling a bit better, although, for over a week, I started waking up regularly during the night. We still emailed each other a lot though. I had tricked myself into thinking I was over her, but knew that really, the next time I saw her, it would all come back again.

Anyway, one of Laura's friends was having a 21st birthday, and Carl had asked me if I wanted to come along, of course I said yes. She had also emailed me, asking if I was coming. There was me, Carl and Michael at first. We didn't meet up with the rest till later. When we did meet up, she came over to me straight away, squeezed my arse and said Hi. She stayed with us for the rest of the night, while the people she was with at first went somewhere else. We went to a club and she stuck close to me for most of the time. Carl left earlier and by himself, and Laura had told me that he was in a funny mood, and that he was acting weird. She is usually totally honest with me. She was being very touchy feely after he went, and ended up hugging me and putting her head on my shoulder, and I just put my arm around her. We left the club (me, Laura and Michael) and I asked her to give me a ring when she got back home, so that I knew she got back safely, which she did. On the way to the taxi, another random person asked if we were a couple, presumably because of the way we were both acting. The day after was the same as usual, missing her quite badly.

Today, he text me asking if I was going out next weekend, where I know she'll be out again. I also have plans with him on Tuesday and Wednesday.

When we're out, she seems to prefer my company to that of her boyfriend's. When me and Laura are talking, Carl just goes in a mood, and ends up leaving (it's happened 3 times now), but he always makes up some excuse the day after about why he left. I've also get the feeling that he's lying to me more now, about insignificant things. I'm also pretty sure she doesn't tell Carl that she emails and texts me.

A few months ago, when we were both drunk, he opened up to me about things not being great, and that he didn't think their relationship would last. He's also told me something that if she found out, I would imagine it would cause problems in their relationship. He told me that he has £14000 in savings that she doesn't know about, and that he doesn't want her to know about. The thought has crossed my mind that he is testing whether or not I'll tell her, but I don't think so. I don't think he fully trusts her, but she also gets jealous if he talks to any other girls. We also occasionally have a poker night, and last time, he told me he wasn't inviting her this time. I forgot about this, and in one of the emails to her, I asked if she was coming to the poker night. She seemed a bit pissed off that Carl hadn't invited her. If I'm honest, I probably knew that it would make her mad at him.

I'm 23 and haven't really had any proper relationships, but I've never felt this way about anyone before. I'm often quite quiet and shy, but with her, I'm totally myself, and I feel like I can tell her anything. I know she really enjoys being with me, but i don't know what she really feels, each time we see each other, we seem to get closer and closer. It's possible she just likes being with me, as a friend. She says she was a tomboy when she was younger, and still has quite a few male friends. Her best friend at work is a lad, but she tells me things that she doesn't tell him. It's not even about sex, she's stunning (although she doesn't believe it), I just love being with her. I really don't want to lose him as a friend, but deep down, I know I'd rather be with her. Me and Carl do a lot together, like going to see football matches and drinking, but I don't feel as though I could ever tell him something in confidence, I just wouldn't trust him to keep it to himself.

In total I've felt like this for about 2 months now, and I've really wanted to tell someone, because at the minute, no one else knows. My closest friend (Michael) has revealed everything to me about his problems, and gets annoyed when I say I can't tell him about mine, but he is also friends with this girl, and her fiance, and we often go out together. I think subconsciously I want him to figure it out, just so I can talk to him about it.

I've read similar threads on here, and the general advice seems to be, "don't see her" and "stay away from her". That's not really possible unless I just stopped having a social life, as most of my friends are very close and do a lot of things together. I don't know what I'm expecting people to say, but it definately feels better to have written all of that down. I'd like to know how she really feels about me, and what other people think she feels, and I suppose I probably want people to tell me that I'm a bad person, because honestly, I don't feel bad about it at all. Up to now, I don't think I've done anything stupid, and I think it's unlikely that I would. Ideally I would like him to break up with her, but still on good terms, then for her to start going out with me. Somehow, I doubt things would be so simple.

[Converse]

He's your best mate simple answer: No.

[Tiay]

could you summarise that please?

also, i've noticed, the longer the original post, the shorter the reply, and vice versa.

[Kiechi]

The first line pretty much sums it all up.

[Alex Nova]

Dont be silly, avoid her.

[Converse]

Also I think if she's not happy in her relationship she might be using you as a distraction. I'd stay out of it, the consequences arnt worth it. No offence but I don't think the feelings are mutual on her side.

[Rossi]

Thanks for your replies. Avoiding her is easier said than done. For example, next weekend, Carl has planned a whole day out, where we'll all be drinking from early on. I didn't go to the last one, and he's virtually told me that I have to come this time (I do want to, and not just to see her). All of my closest friends will be there. Am I supposed to not go? Also, what about the emails and texts? Should I ignore them? I think that she just thinks we're good friends, and I'd rather have that than no contact at all. There's more people going this weekend, so there'll be more people to talk to (and distract me). Thanks Converse, I hadn't considered that. I'm not going out of my way to see her, and I do make a conscious effort just to be sociable. Is that so bad? Is completely not seeing her really the answer (I probably already know the answer to that)? I do appreciate your replies.

[Junket]

Also, what about the emails and texts? Should I ignore them? I think that she just thinks we're good friends, and I'd rather have that than no contact at all.

No, that's where you're wrong.

You think you want that, but that's just as bad for you as cocaine.

You want no contact.

You may not like the idea of it, and initially it'll suck because you've grown dependent on it for happiness and peace of mind, but in the end, it'll make everything better.

[Rossi]

You think you want that, but that's just as bad for you as cocaine.

You're spot on, when I wrote that, I didn't really believe it. So basically, I have 2 options.

1) I don't respond to her emails or texts, and I don't go anywhere where she might be.

2) I don't respond to her emails or texts, and I do still go out, but ignore her and talk to other people. (I still need a social life. She is always out with my friends, so it would really mean not seeing my friends if I didn't go out.)

I prefer option 2. Obviously it's not perfect, but I'll get the chance to try it out next Saturday, and if it doesn't work, I'll resort to option 1. Does that sound reasonable? I can get over this.

[Rossi]

Yeah, I'll say hi and that, and not act too weird, but I think I know what I need to do. (Sorry about the first post, I probably did go into a bit much detail, it was probably mainly for my benefit, just to get everything out.)

[vashti]

I didn't read your entire first post because it was too long, but why is she emailing you? Why don't you tell her it makes you uncomfortable and to knock it off?

[Junket]

I didn't read your entire first post because it was too long, but why is she emailing you? Why don't you tell her it makes you uncomfortable and to knock it off?

I was gonna say the same thing.

You're at a point where you need to step up, draw the line, then make it known to her that it's there and she is not to cross it.

[Rossi]

I don't think the emails will be a problem. They are mainly when she is bored at work and wants to chat, so if I just don't respond, or respond a couple of days later, that'll end that. I might have to say something if she starts hanging round me. She knows that it pisses him off, so I can just explain that, and tell her we shouldn't stick together like we usually do. Thanks for the replies.

[vashti]

Tell her you value your friendship with the guy, and therefore the emails and one-on-one ocntact must stop. period.

[Gigabitch]

Pick one. You can't be friends with both of these people, and you know it.