Friend/love accused of rape...troubled situation.

[HasteTheDay]

I'm kind of in a troubling situation. As the title explains.

I know I hate when I see people posting important questions on the internet and expecting significant help...I always think 'shouldn't they see (a lawyer, a close friend, a counselor, etc.) for this?'...but I really have nowhere to go at this point. I trust no one. I'm tired, I'm bewildered, and I'm alone. I have no one left to ask or tell.

To the problem...well. There are two. The first of which is the rather serious one.

To keep it short and simple: there's this girl. I know her, I've known her for years. And I know with all my heart and head that she is a LIAR. She and her mother will do anything for attention and sympathy. She was my friend...years ago. But not anymore. She's become something vile.

She's been pursuing a jackass who's way too old and frankly way too much for her. She finally got what she daydreamed about. But I'm sure it's not exactly what she had in mind. They went off to this other moron's house and had sex. I saw them going off together, groping each other. He apparently left her somewhere dazed and pantiless, of course. I should feel bad for her. She's only 15. But I hate her guts too much right now. I feel savage toward her.

Not even a day later, an old friend of my dad's...one of the few he has at least...comes knocking on our door. He's a cop. He's asking me about my friend. The girl...that retarded little tart...has accused him of raping her. They're going on her word alone. Of course.

When I told him persistently that he didn't do this...I wasn't much help. I tried lying. I told him he was with me at the time it supposedly happened. But unfortunately I wasn't very good. No one...at least not the adults...understands what a spiteful brat she is. Plus she hates him for reasons too complicated and drawn out to write here...but he hurt her pride. He told her what she was. She's vengeful about things like that. The truth cuts deep, I guess.

It's my fault. I wanted to tell them about the older guy. I really did. But every time I thought about it I hesitated. My throat went dry. He could see that I was holding back. That didn't help my credibility. To keep a long story short, I'm scared of him and his friends. He straight up groped me just last week. He's always making crude remarks at me, almost like threats. I don't know what he'd do if I pointed a finger at him.
It feels like a long, drawn out state of shock. I never in a million years thought he'd ever put his nasty hands on me. Every time I remember the smell of his breath in my face (like cheap booze and vomit), my head hurts. When he did it I at first wanted to sock him in the nose. But he had a look in his face...like 'I dare you to do it'. I'd seen him slap women before. Hard. I knew he'd break me, so I was just glad he got distracted and left when someone pulled up.

So when the topic came around to it...I gave up and withdrew. Things might have been different if I hadn't...but I doubt it.

She's already got the rumor spreading now. Everyone believes the 'victim'. She's got her little act on. It spreads like wildfire around the school. Her claims have basically become fact in peoples' minds. People throw me odd looks because they know I'm close to him. Neighbors are looking at me different. And so on.

I dunno what the police are doing right now. If anything useful. They're probably trying to get stories straight or something. Not everyone is in on her lie. But it's only a matter of time before this fiasco turns into hell for him. And for me because I lied. And will continue to lie if it'll save him. Because he's worth saving to me. It's not like they have any hard evidence...because it never happened. She just likes drama and trouble.

These last few days have been agony. I know he's been questioned and is getting the worst accusing glares... But I don't know the whole deal. He keeps things to himself. He's good natured...but quiet.

In spite of the surrounding BS...I love him. I really do. He's not like other people. Not to me at least. In fact he seems kind of aloof most of the time. Quiet. I never feel more at peace with anyone than with him. He seems surprisingly unaffected by the whole situation. At least outwardly. Like he knew something like this was going to happen long before. He can always predict these petty people. Always. And I don't particularly care what anyone has to say about that...but that's the way it is. He's a special boy.

I don't know what to do about this situation. My father is at least wary of him now (after all...why would she lie about something like this? And he doesn't 'know him well'...). He's the closest thing to a friend I've got: the rest are 'on' and 'off' friends whom I can't trust with this sort of thing. I just sneak off to go see him whenever I can.

I also don't know what to do about him. I guess this is the second problem. I think...it's like a 'heart-feeling'...that he loves me back. He looks at me different than he looks at others. Not in a sleazy way, but tenderly, I suppose. He tends to touch me more tenderly...again, not in a sleazy way, but like someone who loves me. You see...they're all 'subliminal' or something. I hate when people aren't literal and won't come out and say what they mean. I hate mind games and sarcasm. Does he love me like a future wife, or like a little sister? Or at all...am I just a friend? I hate looking dumb in front of him, because he's so smart. I beat myself up for it. So I really don't know how to approach this situation. I spent the evening in his arms before I had to come home...and still don't know. I don't know...I'm bewildered. Like I said. I've never been in any kind of romantic relationship before. I have no clue where to begin...or if I'm even worthy of someone like him half the time, you know? I'm a teenager...it's what I am. And I get urges. I want him sometimes. Sometimes I want him to hold and watch over me, like a second father. The obvious solution is to ask...but what if I'm wrong? I don't want to make him distance himself from me.

It feels like it's us against the world. And I don't even know what kind of 'us' we are. I just need some kind of help. I don't know what to do about this lying brat. About the guy who actually did her and scares the hell out of me. About him. I obviously don't even know how to speak.

[alison123]

honestly I think you need to stay out of it.. if you and this guy have a connection it will pan out down the road
be patient. this chick sounds like trouble and you want no association with him. If you're 100% the guy she
is accusing isn't at fault then stick to your lie to protect him. But if you have any doubts, I'd retract your story
to the cop and say, you mixed up your times/days and this girl is a liar and it's not fair for her to ruin innocent
peoples lives like this. Stay away from the groper as well, he sounds like a creep! best of luck to you.

[HasteTheDay]

I'm definitely 100% sure he didn't do this. He pities her because she's pitiful. He wouldn't touch someone like her. That poor little tart probably WISHES he would touch her like that.
But all she can do is lie about it...

She liked him once. Before he told her off and all. But that's a long story.

[MerryH]

Never lie to protect someone.

I'm definitely 100% sure he didn't do this.

How? In all fairness, you weren't there so you can't be 100% sure of anything. And she may be a liar and a terrible person, but that doesn't mean she's immune to rape. It could have happened.

Now, the guy who groped you and the guy in your last couple of paragraphs aren't the same guy, right? She had sex/was raped by the guy who groped you but is blaming it on your friend? Why would she do that? How old is everyone?

[80r]

Now, the guy who groped you and the guy in your last couple of paragraphs aren't the same guy, right? She had sex/was raped by the guy who groped you but is blaming it on your friend? Why would she do that? How old is everyone?

Yea, I'm extremely confused about this too. It seems like she's talking about two different people, but she never makes a clear distinction.

Oh I think I figured it out now. Yea the girl had sex with some old guy that the TC is scared of and then accused the TCs friend/love interest of raping her. TC knows the friend didn't do it, but is too scared to point the finger at the old sleezeball.

I say just tell the truth about the old guy. Pretty sure you can tell a cop in confidence.

[IndiReloaded]

Stay out of it. Your credibility is shot b/c of your lying, so you won't be any help if it goes to court. If she is 15 and and he's an adult then it is rape if they had sex. But if they didn't then it will be up to the prosecution to prove their case, which isn't easy w/o evidence or witnesses.

[HasteTheDay]

Now, the guy who groped you and the guy in your last couple of paragraphs aren't the same guy, right? She had sex/was raped by the guy who groped you but is blaming it on your friend? Why would she do that? How old is everyone?

Yes, 2 different people. Sorry about that...there was a lot of 'he' this and 'he' that. 80r's got it right. I can only speculate at why she'd accuse him specifically...but I think it's likely for the reasons I said. She's petty and vindictive and hates him. She's an attention-whore. She still wants the other guy (the nasty one) to 'love' her someday, I'm sure, so she wouldn't accuse him...but had to let her anger/shame out somewhere. I can't say with definite sharpness what her twisted reasons are but I think I'm spot on. Even if I wasn't completely right about her "reasons"...I wouldn't care a whole lot. Because he didn't do it...chances of him doing this are like...1 out of a hundred billion trillion. I'm not saying she's immune to rape...I'm more like saying my friend is immune to raping. Especially HER. It's an impossibility. I don't even know where he was at the time she said it happened but I do KNOW he never raped her.

My friend - 16.
That girl - 15.
The older guy - Anywhere between 18 and 20-something. I don't know his exact age. But I know he's probably the youngest of the thuggish dudes he hangs out with.

I'm going to try to talk to my father's friend about why she was REALLY all distraught when she reported the 'rape'...but whether or not he'll believe me is another story. He already thinks I'm just trying to protect the accused. And as far as I know nobody's even mentioned the older guy's name yet. I'm not feeling to confident my word will change a whole lot...but I have to try. I'm not feeling too optimistic about how well this'll go...I know I could stay out of it because it's not my problem...but what kind of friend would I be then? Or girlfriend?...god, I still don't even know that. But I DO know he didn't do it!

[VincenzoG91]

Are you Amanda Knox?

[HasteTheDay]

^Who is she?

Well anyways...I spoke to him today (the cop). I think I did better because it wasn't a surprise. It was frustrating. I told him everything I know but then again that isn't much. I only saw them going off together. Didn't actually witness them having sex (thank Jesus) so I don't know how well that'll work out. And of course other people (her snotty friends) are saying other things too. All I can do now is sigh and hope they won't be able to do anything without actual evidence. :C

well anyways thanks for trying to help. Appreciate it.

[vertical_sky]

You need to stay out of this situation, period. You are not a cop and you are WAY too emotionally vindictive against the girl herself... You do not have clear perspective on the matter. Do not lie again, because if he IS guilty (and yes, despite your hatred of the victim and your own analysis of the victim's motives) you could wind up being charged as an accessory, or as standing in the way of a police procedure.

I'm sorry but you don't know the situation. You may love him, you may hate her, but YOUR feelings do not constitute truth. You haven't heard her full story (unless you read the police report), you're emotionally entangled because of your feelings for him, you hate her... and I mean, you REALLY seem to hate her, not just a "Man she is not a good person" but a "Burn in a fire I am going to call you every nasty name in the book!"

Do NOT lie for him. I don't CARE how innocent you think he is. It will only make him look guiltier once the truth comes out. And I also highly, highly recommend you reach deep down, pull out every strand of maturity you have, and realize that 1) it's POSSIBLE she's telling the truth and 2) for as bad as it may be for him, it's also very difficult for HER. Women who file rape charges, even ones with hard evidence, must face an excruciating amount of scrutiny, social shaming, and prejudice. Your attitude is only contributing to the problem by immediately jumping to conclusions about the truth. However nasty you find her, realize that the next few months... YEARS... of her life are going to be very very difficult. Because either he's innocent, and she must face charges for filing a false report, or he's guilty, and she actually WAS raped.

So tell the police what you know, and BACK OFF.

One last bit of blunt advice: take a look in the mirror before you accuse another person of lying about a situation you are not a part of. You said she was attention-seeking, manipulative, a brat, etc... But you lied to the police, you stuck yourself into the investigation on purpose, for a guy you don't even seem to be dating. And now you're wanting to track down the cops just to tar the victim's reputation some more, perhaps because you assume they're idiots and can't do their jobs? How is this not also attention-seeking behavior? How is this not also manipulative?

[HasteTheDay]

Yes I understand your point (as in I don't know her full story) but I do know his. I spoke to him. To my knowledge...he's never lied to me. She has intentionally lied and once ended up getting me suspended. Of course I distrust her...and there's a reason for it. Experience. I know her. You don't. And to be honest...unless they've spent years knowing how she behaves around people like I have, living around her, then the police don't either. They only know what they're told and what they suspect. You talk as if law enforcement is perfect. I can tell you a lot of people who'd say different.

If she was raped by anyone is was probably the bastard she kept chasing. Why does 'she actually WAS raped' have to mean my friend did it? You don't realize the kind of people she hangs around. They're like a damn gang or something.

And just because I'm 'not a part of it' doesn't mean I'm not going to step in when I see an injustice. Consider that some girl was accusing your friend, brother, boyfriend, whatever...someone you know well...of this. And you what kind of person she is and know she lies for trouble. You'd honestly do nothing? You wouldn't even try because it's 'not your problem' and 'you're not involved'? And just because I'm not dating him does not mean he's not in my heart. Can friends not be close?

And no. I didn't track him down to tar her reputation. You're seeing things wrong. I tracked him down because I had finally gathered the courage to tell him about the dirty bastard who not only treats her like trash, but assaulted me. I tracked him down to tell him what I knew about the people involved, including her.

You also need to understand that her reputation is far from tarred. She's getting condolence hugs. All I hear is 'that poor girl'. If you think I'm acting mean to her...everyone else's smothering her with sympathy more than makes up for it. I'm a minority of one. My friend's reputation is tarred. And everyone is giving him dirty looks except myself and his poor, hysterical mother.

You obviously don't know what attention seeking behavior is. I wasn't seeking public attention. I wasn't seeking sympathy or praise. I just needed him to listen to what I had to say. Because something isn't right. I'm trying to save someone I love. I even set my lie straight with him. Even the most honest people slip up sometimes, especially in panic.

If that makes me immature and whatever else you've got to say about it...then fine.

[vertical_sky]

No, the police aren't perfect. But they've also investigated dozens, hundreds, thousands of crimes, in which I'm guessing the vast majority of people lied to them. The fact that you think you know better than they do isn't a red flag to you? They have experience, and they're actually hearing the whole thing... when I mean the whole thing, I mean her side, his side, the neighbor's side, his mother's side, EVERY side. If her story is inconsistent, they'll figure it out because they'll be able to see the holes. They have the experience and the training to investigate these kinds of crimes.

You, on the other hand, have your possibly-correct-but-also-possibly-wrong interpretation of him, and of her. The only evidence you really have is your evaluation of her character, and your evaluation of his. You see yourself as trying to "correct an injustice"... an injustice can only be corrected if 1) there's actually been an injustice done (he's not actually been arrested or found guilty by law, all the cops are doing right now is gathering evidence) 2) You have actual EVIDENCE that it's an injustice. You say you know he didn't do this because you've "never known him to lie to me." Do you really think, logically, rationally, that is good or even provable evidence?

Yes, she's lied before. Yeah, you have a long history with her. But ya know what, liars can be raped in real life too. Liars can sometimes tell the truth. Does it mean she is? Who knows. You don't. You are fixated on believing only his side of the story.. you are NOT unbiased, and furthermore, not even trying to be.

Would I step back if someone I cared about was accused of a crime? Yes, I would, because 1) entangling myself into someone else's business when I don't have any relevant information beyond character sketches is not helpful 2) people, even people I love, can have some pretty serious skeletons in their closets, skeletons I had no idea about. How many plays, novels, movies have been written around the idea that we never REALLY know someone else? Really never know what they are capable of?

My step-cousin was arrested for murder two years ago. The family was flabbergasted, his friends were appalled... He's such a sweet boy! He's an actor, he'd never hurt a fly! Friends collected money for his defense... and then it came out in trial that the main piece of evidence against him was his bloody fingerprints in her apartment.

Does that mean your friend raped that girl? Again, who knows... But it is not your place to say. It is not your place to call her a liar and glorify him when you don't know. You seem to see yourself as the only person who could know the truth, the only person who can right the wrongs against your poor, judged friend... when you might actually be the LAST person who knows the truth. You have a black history with the victim and you love/idolize the guy.... Because of this, your involvement in this is neither wise nor mature.

You can still be a supportive friend to this guy without rushing to the conclusion that the girl is lying. Be there to listen to him, give him an ear, and restrain your emotions. He has enough drama in his life right now... he doesn't need you running around acting the White Knight. Maturity is about seeing grays, about empathy and restraint. For now, reserve your judgment on both of them, and wait.

[HasteTheDay]

That's not a fair game. Seeing everything in 'gray' is as good as seeing nothing at all. You're taking an "anything is possible" approach, when the chances of some things happening are a lot slimmer than others based on circumstances and factors. Aliens could invade my house right now but I'm not counting on it. He could randomly rape a girl he doesn't like at all...but I'm not counting on it. Straddling the fence hurts: you've got to make a decision.

Yeah I could be in some Shakespearean play. Maybe I'm on a TV crime drama. Or...maybe he's just a boy, same as he's been, and she's just a drama queen...same as she's been. Of course he has stuff he'd rather not say, but we all do. I know the depths of his honesty with me. He trusts me with information he hasn't told anyone. And I trust him the same. Yet you say the cops can assess him better than his closest friend (now his proud girlfriend, BTW) and his mother because they spoke to a bunch of damn neighbors he doesn't even speak to? And a girl who has something against him? Come on, now. You can do better than that.

Actually, seeing so many thousands of cases more likely causes them (cops) to lump people into stereotypes. No one thinks it happens anymore, but if you look a certain way they'll be watching you a lot more closely. Does that mean it's accurate about the individual? No. *Everyone* is biased. I apologize for being human. So I don't care how many criminals they've dealt with: it can't substitute for years of interacting with this individual boy, or being the victim and former friend of this individual girl.

Teachers have plenty of experience with children, but compared to the kids' mothers, brothers/sisters, and friends of years, they don't know squat. Maybe their test grades or how to put them to sleep.

Yes, liars can tell the truth, too. But it's ridiculous to trust a liar with something like this with no hard evidence. That's why credibility is looked at. If they had his semen or something I'm sure he'd be locked up by now.

And I'm sure your cousin had some kind of motive for the murder. I'm not saying he was right. But a motive must have been present, even a bad one. My friend has no MOTIVE for raping her. And that's why it's so absurd...He detests her. If he wanted to do her he could have done it perfectly legal and without so much trouble when she was crushing after him like a mad dog. But no, he pushed her away. Yeah you can come up with the wild theory that he's a psychopath who rapes random girls but that's a wild card and you know it. I wouldn't go as far as to say he wouldn't hurt a fly. I've seen him angry on rare occasions. But I know he's not that stupid.

And by the way...how well did everyone know your cousin? I have cousins I haven't seen in many years and don't even pretend I know.

Did you spend hours and days alone with your cousin, talking? Did you spend time with him in silence? Did you openly discuss his faith or lack thereof, his fears and what he hates and loves with him? And why? And never tell a single one? Did you know what he thought about the world and the people, and his place in it? Did you sit in the hospital with him when his mother was sick? Did he tell you about very horrible things that have happened to him, and the best days of his life? Have you seen his scars? Did you sit for hours and watch him work at what he is passionate about? Did you feel like he was so familiar you could sense his presence with your eyes closed (I know how that sounds...but it is what it is)? Was he the only friend you had in the world, and all you felt like you had to know? I could go on with this but to end it, would you have trusted that cousin with your life and all your secrets? Yes I admit my absorption in him biases me. But how could I know him so intimately and then act like everything was a lie and he's really Charles Manson or whatever crazy thing you'd have me believe.

And furthermore...this is MY post about US. She's getting all the help she needs. You don't think I haven't heard from people who think she isn't lying?... It's practically all I've heard.

I don't know how the cops see it: they can't tell me. But I know how the people see it. And they believe her and her only. They basically scoff at him. Yet I'm so wrong that I need to look in the mirror? I at least know both people involved on some level. These people don't know him. He interacts with very few people...he's extremely introverted. He's difficult to get to know well.

Even if the legal authorities decide not to take this case any further there's still the social atmosphere left in the wake of these things. Being accused of rape carries a stigma. And you know it. Everyone knows it. It takes a long time to wear off. If it ever does. So even if nothing happened legally, he'd still be quite as screwed as he is right now.

Does it mean nothing to you that in the eyes of all the surrounding people he is guilty until proven innocent? Is that an imagined injustice? Have you desensitized yourself to that extent?

With all that being exhaustively said...I say with complete confidence yeah, I believe him. If he said he didn't do it, he didn't do it. That girl can either get her story straight or burn in hell.

[IndiReloaded]

All you can do is support your friend by listening if he wants it. Otherwise, you should stay out of it.

I've sat on a rape jury. Its awful. I will tell you that if it goes that far he will not be convicted unless there is solid proof. If she's underage and he isn't, then he's in for some trouble. Either way, you weren't there, you don't know what actually happened. Your feelings about the matter don't matter. You already showed your bias by lying (to a cop--dumb) so stay out of it. Is there an echo in the forum?

[HasteTheDay]

I never said I was without bias...No one is. I can only see the truth through my own eyes...just like everyone else.

And I set the lie straight with him as soon as I possibly could. I knew that was a mistake...I panicked. He knew I was lying in the first place.

I've already done my part as far as the cops go anyway...Now there's just him and me again. But it is a comfort that in your experience he wouldn't likely actually be convicted in any case without solid proof, so thank you for letting me know that.