In too deep?

[Twinkle]

I'm 25 and been with my man for 6 years. We've been living together for the past 4 years and I feel that it's that time in our lives where we need to make some serious decisions about our future - i.e marriage.

Recently I have been having all these doubts about him. As much as I love him, I feel there are a lot of things that he needs to change about himself before we take the next step. Some issues that I have raised with him concern his lack of independent. Much of his life revolves around me. He doesn't hang out with his friends much, he's a yes/no man..basically he's willing to do anything to please me.

My issue is that for me to move forward in our relationship, I want him to be more independent. but he lacks the motivation to change his life. I don't wanna be the gf that nags for him to change. I'm at a crossroads in our relationship and I am willing to give up 6 years to find someone who will challenges me.

It makes me so upset that I have invested all this time and effort building my life with him only to think i could throw it all away. To make matters worse, he is a genuinely nice guy...any girl would be lucky to have him.

Please give me some advice.

[Hugo Pickle]

Ahh miss Twinkle, I am so glad that you have decided to post your concerns about this here with us. When I was your age I would simply dump people when I found things out that I didn’t like. At one point I dated 13 different people in only a 3 month period. It was then that I began to feel that it was best to simply find one I got liked a lot and then tried to change her. No good, she (and all the rest I tried this with) resented my attempts and constantly came back with statements like, “I want someone who loves me the way that I am” After that I was at kind of a low period in my dating life and gained a lot of weight and only saw people out of reluctance and sexual desire really. But it was during this low point that I realized that people tried to change a little when I seemed unhappy with them. I didn’t care at that point and the changes never stuck but I learned something.

It was then that I tried a kind of experiment. I tried to manipulate people to do what I wanted them to do. It was successful to some degree but not fulfilling and in the end backfired as people thought I was just using them.

But now, I have learned the best way to do things in regard to your sig other. The best way to do things is to simply totally control yourself. Get what you want out of your life. You will be amazed how much other people will want to follow in your footsteps. A woman I was dating one time told me flat up, “Man now I have to work out too” I said “what do you mean” She said “If I don’t, then I’ll lose you” I have found that the best way to get your sig other to do what you want them to do is to do what you want to do and at the same time tell them gently what you would like them to change.

For instance, if your sig other has gained weight, then the best way to get him or her to get back in shape is to first get yourself back in shape and then say, “I wish you would work on your body more” They feel totally guilty and seem to understand instinctively that it is very important to you and if they want to keep you then they buck up and do it. If you help them to do what you want then they actually feel better about themselves. Its like you first take your life where you want theirs to go, then mention that you wished they would do the same, and then help them to do it.

You can’t just say what you mean most of the time, you have to demonstrate it as well. Like going out with friends and being independent. First you do that and then tell him that you wished that the “both of you did that more” He will understand that if he doesn’t go out with his friends and invite you along, then you will just go out with your friends without him. This will drive real fear and understanding on his part. Same goes for women.

More later

[Aveline_Rei]

Hi Twinkle,
Just a few questions from me. How many times have you actually talked to him about where the relationship is going? How long ago did you start wanting these changes in him or is something that after getting invovled with him you wanted from the start?
Maybe i'm wrong here but for the most doesn't marriage mean not being so independent because there is someone there in your life that you have concern about and generally want to talk with first before you do things. I don't think that it's such a bad thing that you are his world. Annoying at times, well, of course. As far as what you have said you're the one with the problem and he probably doesn't understand how much this is blocking the relationship in your eyes. He probably doesn't want to change because you've loved him this long for the way he is which begs what has changed? You've been playing house with him for 4 years and now it's suddenly not enough. I think you just need to ask yourself is he worth it? Do you love him enough to put up with for the rest of your life. We know that you are the center of his world. Is he the center of yours?
I think that you have a good thing here and just probably need to talk to him more about it. It is hard to find someone that places you above everything So, know what you're giving up and that you may not find it again if you do.

[shh!]

I think investing six years in the span of a lifetime isn't all that much when compared to spending the next 50 years with someone you don't really respect. When you marry someone, it is best to look at them as an "as is" proposition, and not a fixer-upper. If it is in his nature to be undermotivated, you either have to accept this quality or move on. I have yet to see anyone be able to "fix" this sort of thing in another person, and that which annoys you now will infuriate you in ten years.

Be careful, Twinkle. The rest of your life is a LONG time.

[Lloyd95]

"In too Deep" is one of my favorite songs by Genesis.

[Twinkle]

Everyone has raised many valid points. THANK YOU!

To answer Aveline Rei's few questions, I've spoken to my partner on several occasions about his level of independence. I guess I wanted him to change after I saw positive things happen to me. For example when I graduated from university, it was the best feeling in the world and I wanted him to experience that feeling as well. When I go out with my friends and have a great time, i want him to experience the same thing as well. He's got friends and so he should go out with them! He's also a big boy and even though I met him when he was big, I would still like him to lose the weight. I know I probably sound really cruel but i think the changes would be positive for him and not just me. I love this guy so I should accept him for as he is right?

[Bluevetteracer]

I think investing six years in the span of a lifetime isn't all that much when compared to spending the next 50 years with someone you don't really respect. When you marry someone, it is best to look at them as an "as is" proposition, and not a fixer-upper. If it is in his nature to be undermotivated, you either have to accept this quality or move on. I have yet to see anyone be able to "fix" this sort of thing in another person, and that which annoys you now will infuriate you in ten years.

Be careful, Twinkle. The rest of your life is a LONG time.

Great advice from our resident socialist (With love Vashti)

[Hugo Pickle]

I agree to evaluate someone "as is', but to tell me that people don't change is wrong. people change all the time and that is part of the problem, but it is also the solution.

You mean to tell me you’ve never bettered yourself? You mean to tell me that you’ve never followed a leader? It is true that you can't change other people, but it is not true that people will not change themselves because of the example that you provide them.

Think of Christ and the apostles. Think of any married couple who has gone through hard personal struggles and survived and only become stronger. I have had many people try to change their ways to keep someone else. but all too often they change in that they give up their life for someone else, instead of living their life with someone else.

She is the cause of her own complaint. She is the reason that he has changed. But she doesn't realize that. He used to be different, but now he is not the same person. She can fix this. Unfortunately she has taken control of the relationship, but is something that is taken, not something that is given. women will sometimes want to control the relationship, but if their man lets them then they get complacent and not content. The challenge is gone.

Do not throw this all upon your boyfriend. It takes two to tango and if you say you really love him, then you will change yourself and become a good example and pray like hell that he learns from it.

[shh!]

I think the fact that he is undermotivated is working for him, so he will not be motivated to fix the problem. It is too easy to find people who will tolerate this character flaw.=, if not you, then someone else.

[misombra]

"In too Deep" is one of my favorite songs by Genesis.

i prefer against all odds.

[Lloyd95]

i prefer against all odds.

That's Phil Collins, not Genesis, no?

[misombra]

like father figure was george michael not wham!

[Rosebud]

I disagree you should make someone feel guilty so they will change. That is manipulation and that is wrong. You cannot change someone else. The only reason someone changes is because they feel they need to or something isn't working right for them. So if someone tells them they need to change something about themselves and they don't think they need to, they won't no matter what you do or say!

My stand point on stuff like this, is this: You ahve invested a lot of time, commitment, and energy in this relationship. Both of you have gotten very comfortable with one another. When this happens, things get taken for granted. Sometimes even talking about this with them, they still will not see or understand what you mean or want. I understand you have reached another level where you need to move up and not stand still which is why you may be critiquing these things mroe closely.

If you really feel you just don't want to deal with any of this anymore, and you want something more then you need to move on. Why stay around if it's not what you want. But in all honestly I think there's always going to be something that we are going to be 100% satisfied with in that S/O. But that's where compromise and acceptance comes in.

[Only-virgins]

What you mean he is not independent? You pay for him? because if he doesn't have friends that doesn't mean he is not independent.

[Hugo Pickle]

I didn't say use guilt trips to manipulate people. i said that if you change for the better, (ie you do the same things you tell you sig other to do), then they will feel guilty about it. It is not your intent to make them feel this way, but when one partner starts bettering themselves then the other one will usually feel this way. It is the whole peas in a pod thing.

Either he will better himself to keep you and keep up with the pace, or he will simply let you go.