"Girl Next Door" Syndrome

[FightorFlight]

Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum - I've been reading some of the posts for awhile but just now decided to join. I look forward to getting to know some of you and learning a thing or two. But anyway, I have a problem which has been confusing and frustrating me for a long time, but no one seems to be able to help.

I am 18 years old, in college, and have never had a boyfriend. I have never had a first kiss, never had any sort of "short" relationship (or even come close), have never been in a situation where me and a guy shared "feelings" for each other. I realize that this is not TOTALLY unusual (it does, in fact, shock the majority of my friends, but I'm sure there are plenty of you out there who are/were in the same situation), and I'm willing to accept the fact that - as much as I want one - I may not find a guy for another five or ten years. Many people tell me that I am still "young" and have "plenty of time." All right, that's fine.

But here is where the frustration comes in. I suppose I am fairly attractive (or so I have been told by plenty of people, guys included), and there have been NUMEROUS guys who - upon first meeting me - decide they are interested and try to flirt with or to "court" me (sometimes being plain out obnoxious, like shouting out of a car window). In fact, it seems that almost everywhere I go I run into this. I don't know if it's true, but I've been told that the best way to start a relationship is to become really good friends first and not to jump into anything too quickly. Yet for some reason, whenever I become good friends with a guy, somewhere along the way I end up in the "just friends" pile. This happens even with the guys I'm not interested in, or the ones who seem to like me at first and then eventually just change their mind.

I don't know what it is I'm doing wrong. I'm a fun, friendly person, try not to be too clingy, and I don't even think I do anything to turn anyone off. But somewhere along the way they assume we're just friends and nothing more. There is a guy who I really like and have been good friends with for a while now, and we sort of flirt (maybe it's in too much of a "friendly" way? -- I don't know, I guess I don't really know the difference), but I recently met some of his buddies and he told them we were "just friends," so they started hitting on me. So WHY IS IT THAT HIS FRIENDS ALL SEEMED TO LIKE ME, BUT HE DOESN'T?? He's known me longer, knows me well, and likes me plenty. So why can't he like me as more than a friend? I don't think he has any idea I like him, but I'm afraid to say anything because I don't know what his reaction would be or if he would hate me or think I was annoying or something. And saying that we're "just friends" - does that imply that he definitely doesn't like me or he just doesn't think I like him and figures we'll never go there?

Am I just not being clear enough to guys? How clear is clear enough, and what's too much? You know, to the point that it would be annoying and unattractive? I want to be subtle but not too subtle. Help?

Is it just my personality? Is there any reason why guys would love me plenty as a friend, but never be interested in anything more than that?

Sorry to go on for so long, but I really appreciate any advice you can offer. I'm so confused! :[ Thanks!

[ecojeanne]

it's probably really simple; body language. you are not sending the 'vibe' out to the ones you fancy with your whole idea of friends first thing. i agree being friends is important but so is body language and sending out the signals.

the lingering smile, the caress of your neck, and so on. then there will be no mistake, they will 'catch on' very quickly.

[FightorFlight]

That actually makes a lot of sense. But the thing is, most of my friends tell me it just "comes naturally" to them. Basically, they're telling me they just make it obvious without meaning to and the guys figure it out. Same the other way around, too (guys to girls). So why doesn't it come naturally to me? If I try to consciously give body language, is it possible it would go overboard and make them feel uncomfortable?

[ecojeanne]

it should be natural however i reckon you are over thinking when you see someone you like and that is what is preventing the natural behavior to shine thru

read this for more info

[url]http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Guide_to_Social_Activity/Body_Language[/url]

good luck

[miSSleepy]

I've read alot on this body language business and that's the first thing that popped into my head while I was reading your post. My friend's 24, and never so much as held a guy's hand... she doesn't know why, and she doesn't understand when i tell her that it's the signals she gives off. Her body language is very impersonal and withdrawn, so everyone assumes she's not interested.

This could be the case with you. You may not give off the signals and guys just end up thinking you're not interested, not approachable, etc.

Have you ever actually really liked a guy yet? My theory is that, when you do, you'll give off these signals and he'll pick up on them.

[Cbrider]

You are young and you do have plenty of time ahead of you. I was in the same boat you were, I was just into "guy" things when I was your age, I felt like a gf just didn't fit into my life at the time. Now I am 22, have been around the block and have a general understanding of how it all works. Don't feel pressured to find a boyfriend, I will tell you from experience that someone finds their way into your life when looking isn't your number one priority.

Body language is everything if you want to attract the RIGHT kind of guy. I suspect your misstep is in your approach is your body language. Its easy for a girl to appear guarded or for lack of better terminology, a "bitch." I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but you have to be careful about how you present yourself because its easier than you think to turn guys off before you even open your mouth.

For me, the best way to grab my attention is to smile and maintain eye contact. Its extremely easy to glance and shyly look away, you don't want to do that. Flirting is half confidence and half bringing down your walls. If you can look at me and make eye contact without looking away you will immediately grab my attention.

Another thing that a lot of people never think about is how you hold your arms. If you stand with your arms crossed you might as well walk around with a handgun in your bra. Its a complete turn off and presents you as someone who is unfriendly or anti social.

The best piece of advice I have heard regarding love was from an old co-worker of mine. He said "no matter who you set your heart on, make sure you marry your best friend." That is something that has stuck with me ever since. Being friends with someone prior to the next step is a huge advantage.

I met my first girlfriend where I worked. I thought she was cute, but she seemed shy. One day my friend at work said "you need to go talk to her man, shes been starring at you the whole time we have been moving this stuff." Well, low and behold I started talking to her in the break room as I was getting ready to go home. She tossed her pop tab at me and joked with me, so I asked her out to coffee and it went from there. While I hold no regrets and learned a lot of hard lessons in that relationship, the one that stands out the most is, know who you are really talking to. She turned out to be a much different person under the surface and things did not work out well between us. Like I said, no regrets, but do yourself a favor and save yourself a lot of unpleasant experiences by getting to know the person. Don't feel pressure to please or be someone you are not.

From what you described in your post, your friend may have never known that you have interest in him beyond being just friends. Did you ever do anything to convey to him that you liked him? Something you have to avoid is a routine with guys because we will quickly just file you under "friends." Hug him when you see him, pay attention when he talks, sit next to him, etc, etc. It all sounds stupid, believe me, I think it does, but its what works. Touching a guy's arm, his back or similar things when talking is probably the fastest way to let him know your intentions without saying it.

Flirting is just a big game, nothing more. The best way to learn how to play the game is to go out with a friend who knows how it works and watch them. You will pick up on the subtle things that get guys attention or reaction.

I wish I could explain this better, but its hard for me to organize this into something easy to understand. You could really write a never ending book about this subject.

[FightorFlight]

I am actually quite good at maintaining eye contact and looking interested when I talk to guys...or anybody, really. I rarely cross my arms when I talk to someone - usually I either have them on my hips, at my sides, or if I'm sitting down sometimes I'll rest my head in my hands. I also do, in fact, hug him when I see him and sit next to him and pretend to be interested in what he's doing. He just doesn't get it. And I do know friends who know how to "flirt," but unfortunately they are not fun and sweet about it. Rather, they throw themselves out there to the point that it's almost repulsive to me, and I don't want to be that kind of girl. Unless that's what it absolutely takes, but somehow I find that hard to believe.

Maybe the problem is the age thing, though. The vast majority of the guys who have taken a "liking" to me were twenty-two, or somewhere in that age range. But so far not a single one has really caught my attention.

This guy teases me a lot. He also has done things like kick me in the butt with a tempting look in his eye (like, "Want to go?"), lean on me when I'm busy doing something, etc., etc. What is he doing? Is this just playing the field, and do guys do that with all their female friends? Actually, they probably do...

MiSSleepy: Yes, I have DEFINITELY liked a guy...a few guys actually. And I liked them a lot. But yes, I do have a tendency to be a bit withdrawn from the guys I like, but I've gotten better about that, too. I am much more open and fun around them than I used to be, especially after I get to know them well. It has been very successful in getting me guy friends, but still nothing more than that with the guys I've been interested in.

[chump4u]

You seem to be like a lot of girls I've known, some of whom became my good friends-- but "friends only" friends, just as you describe.

I get this impression by reading (or, misreading) some implications of what you wrote: but it looks to me as though you make all of your guy-friends by a very slow and tortuous process of hanging around, being a "fun person" within your group, and then very slowly coming to like and trust some selected nice guy.

The problem with this method is that while you're feeling your way around trying "to become really good friends first" before you give a guy the time of day, there's something else going on at the same time: the guy is watching you react with others. And I think that maybe your reactions to some things may be a little off-putting.

For example, you describe your friend's buddies as "hitting on me." Do you mean that they grabbed at your breasts, or do you simply mean that they had the temerity to try to introduce themselves to you once they found that you weren't their buddy's girlfriend? I ask that because you also describe "NUMEROUS guys who-- upon first meeting me-- decide they are interested and try to flirt with or to 'court' me." Is that really the way it is, or is it that any time a new guy shows interest in you, you think that he's trying to seduce you? And if so, do you have the approved, modern-girl reaction to that? Do you reach for a police whistle and a can of Mace whenever some poor fool dares to walk up to you and say "Hi, my name's....?"

If that's the case, then the explanation of your "always friends, never lovers" problem is that once a guy gets an image in his mind of you sitting with a castrating knife on the table in front of you, that image stays forever. Even a guy who becomes friends with you, knows what a great person you are, and is certain that you aren't really a savage nut-buster, is going to have you on his "good friend, but no way a girlfriend" list; because in the back of his mind he's afraid that it will be an ego-destroying mistake to try to "girlfriend" you.

[FightorFlight]

Well the way I chose to word it may have sounded a little off-putting. I suppose I should have explained that no, they are not trying to "seduce" me, but are in fact nice guys who are simply showing interest in me. And I am never rude or standoffish to these guys - I'm actually quite friendly and smiley and outgoing with them. So I could have chosen to take a little more care in my wording...

But now that I think about it, the metaphor about the castrating knife makes so much sense! I never even really thought about it that way, at least not in the front of my mind. I often try so hard not to hurt my own ego and end up without a friend (I have a history of embarrassment in that regard, so I'm certainly not as open as I would like to be about my feelings)...that I never even give the slightest hint I might be interested. Even when I think I'm showing interest, chances are it's just in my head, because I'm constantly worrying that I'll be *too obvious.*

And I can see where they might think it would be a big crush to their ego to try to "girlfriend" me. Because I suppose I do have a tendency to give off that subtle "hands off" vibe, even if I don't mean to.

Wow...I've actually never had anybody explain it like that. What should I do, then? Should I happily date any guy who comes along and shows interest, even if I'm not interested at all, just to show guys I'm not totally unapproachable? Should I start being obvious about my feelings with guys I like? Do you think that would be a dire mistake, or that it's really not going to bother them as much as it bothers me?

...Help?

Thanks so much, though. Man, you guys have really opened my eyes! I just don't know how to change...

[chump4u]

You caught me off-guard by not only reading my diatribe, but responding to it. That's rare around here.

Trouble is, I'm more of a specialist than a general adviser. I mean, I'm expert at finding negatives. Show me a good situation, and I can tell you what is, in fact, wrong; show me a bad situation, and I can unerringly prove to you that it's much worse than you think it is.

I feel that it's my job in life to say "here's the problem, and it's really, really bad." When I do that, I've done my duty. I sleep well that night.

But when you ask me "what's the solution?" you put me against the wall, and make me think, which gives me these evil little headaches (just here, above the ear), and then everything gets sort of fuzzy...

......

But, I usually recover quickly.

......

So, to continue: I certainly didn't mean to say that you should "date any guy who comes along..." God, if I said that, your Daddy would probably track me down and shoot me. At least, I hope he would; if not, I'd have to shoot myself.

And I didn't mean to say that you're "unapproachable." Obviously, you're not. You seem to have a good pool of friends, guys and girls both. You also have a couple of fellows you like, and who seem to like you. Who needs more than that?

You're 99% of the way to your goal just by spotting the one tiny, insignificant flaw in your otherwise perfect makeup* (that "hands off" vibe you think you may give off). I'm sure that now you've recognized the problem, the solution will present itself. Just keep on with your friends and your life exactly the way you've always done-- except lose that "subtle vibe" around the guys you like.

And if you need any help with what I call the "mechanical" part of relationships there are a bunch of folks around this forum who should be happy to help you. I don't know why they haven't showed up yet with some what-to-wear and when-to-wink advice. But I'm sure they'll be here soon, if they know what's good for them, and don't want to start finding dead rats in their mailboxes, and having other tragic accidents like that, if they get my drift.






( * This is flattery, but it's sincere. It's obvious to me from your posts that you're a remarkable girl.)

[Gigabitch]

... I've been told that the best way to start a relationship is to become really good friends first and not to jump into anything too quickly. Yet for some reason, whenever I become good friends with a guy, somewhere along the way I end up in the "just friends" pile.

WRONG!



Girls end up in the Friend Zone too. That could be most of your trouble right there.

[olie843]

idk........

[FightorFlight]

Ok, chump4u, I got ya. So your real goal is not really to help out, but just to kinda hang around the forum looking for interesting topics that you can pick apart and yell at, in the hopes that the original poster will not actually read, listen, or respond to your message?

HAHA. JUST KIDDING. See, I can find the negative in things too, you know. ;D

And I am really trying to lose the subtle vibe. And things have gotten a little interesting in the past few days. That friend of mine I was talking about actually looked at me sincerely and told me he thought I could get a boyfriend if I really wanted to, because I was really pretty cute. Unfortunately, he now has a girlfriend...

I really was surprised by your post, though. I've never heard anything like it, and no one has ever explained it like that before. I guess I just needed a little "diatribe" to really help me figure out what I'm doing wrong. After all, the people that I know are always trying to be nice and to comfort me, and that's why I came here...not for sympathy, but the truth. So give it to me straight up. lol.