Women, please help me make sense of my situation...

[trashedteen]

Hey, my names John, I'm new the forum and I would like to know:

Why are you females so complicated? I used to work for my dad, during this time he hired this really cute girl to work behind the bar (he owns a pub). We got on really well, I used to make her laugh a lot and she started making some very tempting suggestions so I began to think it was going somewhere, then, just before I stopped working for my dad she got herself a boyfriend, this threw me off the idea of us two completely, I left the job and forgot all about her.

Now at this point I should probably admit that I am really bad at taking a friendship to the next level. I've got no problem getting the attention, I just tend to shy away when it gets more serious. Also, I think I'm going through some kind of social anxiety at the moment so it's difficult enough for me to get close to someone.

Then a couple weeks ago I went to the pub for my dads bday and she was there. I found out she wasn't with her boyfriend anymore and we started talking again and all the feelings started coming back. So I decided I was going to make my move, when I went to find her I found out she'd left.

Went back to the pub this weekend and there was barely any interest from her what-so-ever, a bit of mild flirting and thats as far as it went, once again she left without saying anything.

Now, being a bloke, I am completely at a loss on what to do now. Do I just give up or is this all part of the chase? Is she interested and is she worth it? Normally I wouldn't let a problem like this bug me but this is different for some reason. Sorry for the essay, tried to make it as small as possible.

Hope you can help.

[girl68]

doesn't sound like she's all that interested.

[azilin]

You can never, ever, take a woman's expression of interest as serious in the sense that it's an established thing that she'll never take back. Sooner or later some wind of emotion will blow throw her and she'll un-mean whatever she meant, at least temporarily.

There can be a lot of subtext too. She may have flirted with you to see how you'd respond, and found your response wanting in some arbitrary way. She may have flirted with you to try on the idea of being close to you, and after due consideration, said "nah". Maybe she remembered some other guy she's interested in and realized, hell, what am I doing here.

I've seen this cavalier attitude even in otherwise intelligent, wise, mindful, accomplished women. It seems to be inherent in their nature. The emotion of the moment seems to erase all previously held perspectives, opinions, and convictions. Women, in short, are oceanic ... there's a lot churning around in there, and us simpleton guys are never going to figure it out. Might as well not even try.

So ... my advice is, shrug and move on. Your only hope is to find a woman who does this infrequently enough that you can tolerate it. Since familiarity breeds contempt, I'd say, in practice, you want to find a woman who NEVER does this to you during the getting-to-know-you phase and not for at least months after you're together. Anything more than that -- you can extrapolate to a constant roller coaster ride.

"This is different for some reason" -- okay, I get that. Something about her appeals strongly to you. I'm not saying it's not real -- just that it comes with a huge, huge fly in the ointment. Look for that in someone else. You'll find it. Or not. It is what it is.

Of course -- and I shouldn't even say this, I suppose, but what the heck -- she may have simply decided to show some interest and then test you to see if you're assertive enough when she's not encouraging you. If so, then you are now a wuss in her eyes, and you're screwed anyway. Don't feel too badly about it, though, because you could just have easily been assertive and provided she was in the wrong mood, that would have turned her off too. Which raises the spectre that she was just in a bad mood in general that day.

You see how it is, now, don't you -- endless twists and turns and who the heck knows what, if anything, it all means.

[starbuck]

I think the best way to gauge a woman's response is to just ask her out. You can only attempt to read so many signs (and they can be easily misinterpreted.)

[babyjam]

Why will you give up when you actually done nothing yet?

Try to ask her out, then find time to know her more. It will be better if you have your quality time together rather than partying around with friends and colleagues.

[trashedteen]

Thanks everyone for your advice, especially azilin, I can tell you've had plenty of experience.

I think it may be a case of me not being assertive enough. I'd like to ask her out but the trouble is, I'm terrible at asking the question, and if I do get rejected then its just going to be plain awkward.

Its never been a problem before but I haven't long come out of a long-term relationship and I seem to have lost my mojo. Can you guys give me any advice?

[azilin]

I've never seen what's awkward about a woman saying "no thanks", or even, "bugger off". If she says "no thanks", well, it's a free country. It doesn't mean you're a worm, or that you are impertinent for having asked -- it just means she doesn't happen to be attracted to you. That's data, too ... just move on. If she says "bugger off" then she's a thoughtless jerk and you wouldn't want to be with her anyway.

Quit approaching women from such a place of sucking need. Ask yourself why it's such a big deal to ask a simple question and get a simple answer.

Of course women will not always give you a simple answer ... and it's up to you how much you want to play coy little guessing games. You aren't obligated to do anything other than take her at face value, though.

Your basic problem here is that you feel you MUST have a yes from this girl and that there must be some way to guarantee it. Neither thing is true. She's not that big a deal. Just ask her out. Get to know her. Don't have so much invested. It's not your only chance or something.

You're allowed a little more angst about opening yourself to her beyond a certain point, or moving in with her, or Popping the Question, etc. But this is just a preliminary feeler. Ease up already. You're way ahead of yourself.