Inner Game

[IndiReloaded]

Honestly, tell me what you REALLY want, and we'll work it out..

Actually, GS, you're already doing it, all by yourself.

[Only-virgins]

Damn what have I missed?

Ah, hell OV. If you can't find a nice girl, move to Vancouver & become my poolboy. You can work in hubby's lab, hit on all the hot girls in there (he's got a truckload of them) & be a happy little camper. BlueSum knows lots of folk & I manage a dept with over 100 women all around age 20 - 30, many of them single. We'll make you forget Ms. Whatshername.

Stop kidding around, I might take you up on that offer! haha 100 20-30 women who most are single...damn, I live in the wrong place

Pool boy for Indi.....biology...pool boy for indi....biology.....tough choice.....I'll just be a pool boy. lol

OV, what might help you is the "cave man" (I.e. The way I get after a few shots and pints of amber fluid in a club) You act as if the world is part of your cave and is there solely for you to explore and play with. When you approach an attractive girl you approach with confidence and certainty as if she's already into you. Doesn't matter what she looks like or who or what she thinks she is. She's lucky, because you happen to find her attractive and grace her with your attention. Once you think like that, your whole attitude changes. You can get dozens of girls like her just like that if you want, but what the hell you're a nice guy so you'll do her a favour and talk to her. You no longer worry about right and wrong, you're no longer nervous or bound by your own consciousness, you just act natural with certainty that what you do is awesome. You project confidence, dominance, certainty that you are a master of your own domain , you are reliable and you can get things done. And most importantly you give everything a shot. This attitude radiates well and lots of girls seems to pick up on it and be attracted to it. Don't ask me why, just know that it works

I know, this is harder done than said. Acting confident and feeling it for real is different. I am slowly building myself up there. I can't just tell myself that she is lucky to be talking to me. The conversation just won't be smooth enough. Though you make really good points.

[GrkScorp]

why not work at improving yourself internally instead of manipulating people and situations???

Exactly! and if we had to name this internal improvement of ones self, and call it something a little more formal.. I don't know.. something different from manipulation of people and situations.. something distinct and seperate from "Outer game".. what would be a fitting name?

INNER game perhaps?

We've been in agreement all along! This was the point of this thread!

[Only-virgins]

I know it's a lot to take in.. but the first thing you may find interesting is that, the first person you felt hate towards was "him".. as you first started to feel a mix of frustration and confusion for why she would fall for someone like him.. at some point, you realized that it wasn't his fault.. you then temporarily felt hate towards her; that's understandable.. she was the source of those bad emotions at that moment.. but you eventually found yourself finally feeling hate for yourself.. unable to rationalize it fully and completely.. until now.. It's amazing how the mind sometimes speaks in code.. but it never fails to cry out.. and yours didn't.. you felt that hate.. and it felt very real.. but now that you think back on it, it's understandable how you almost can't help but laugh at it..

I'm only quoting this for length saving. I don't laugh at it. It has made me miserable for a while. I do feel better about myself. I am trying to realize if it has been some of the things you said or of it was the ego boost I got from seeing her ex working at a lame hot dog stand..not to put anyone down with a job such as that but you get my point. Something is missing still though, maybe just the moment or opportunity for me to really motivate myself to go for someone. Anyways, there is this cute girl I want to talk to in class and I am going to see if I have what it takes to approach her....hell, she should be happy she gets to talk to me right? I'm smart, intelligent, and I always have good advice ...

[GrkScorp]

Anyways, there is this cute girl I want to talk to in class and I am going to see if I have what it takes to approach her....hell, she should be happy she gets to talk to me right? I'm smart, intelligent, and I always have good advice ...

Slip a note by her one day as you're sitting next to her in class one day.. make sure you do it when class is going on..

"I'm bored, and if you're still reading.. so are you.. ok, no laughing or else no more notes for you..

I have a friend who uses cheezy lines on people.. He was telling me some of them the other day.. and yes, they're cheezy, but some of them are actually hilarious..

What's the funniest line you've heard?

- Hi, my name is (your name).. what's yours?
- Did it hurt alot? When you fell from heaven?
- Hey, i've seen you around before, what other classes do you take?
- Are you Jamaican? Caz Ja-makin-me-crazy!
- You're not ugly, so I thought, ehh, why not give you a chance..
- I have my library card, mind if I check you out?
- I'm bored.. I have a friend.. What's the funniest line you've heard?"

(It's supposed to be funny)

The worst that can happen is she laughs.. and you have a fluff conversation laughing about it.. (be ready to stack with stories and other funny/fun stuff).. and she stops talking or class ends.. (in which case you just broke the ice.. now you're this fun/funny guy in her class.. WELCOME TO HER RADAR!)

The best case.. she laughs.. you have a fluff convo.. you stack with stories, games, tricks (fun/funny/interesting).. she responds.. walks out of class with you.. (and like i've stressed, be the first to leave.. YOU tell her it was fun, but you have an other class.. that's it.. no need to elaborate.. you're going to see her again! She's not going anywhere.. she'll be there again next class.. where you can re-stack.. and get her # to meet up after class.. or tell her to come with you for lunch via "do you have class after this? I'm going to get some lunch.. why don't you come with me to get some lunch.. I have to show you this memory trick..")

If you do NOTHING.. then the BEST and WORST outcomes are the same.. NOTHING.. but you're better than that now..

Bonus: (Memory Trick - Peg System)

1. Tree
2. Switch
3. Stool
4. Car
5. Glove
6. Gun
7. Dice
8. Skates
9. Cat
10. Bowling
11. Goal
12. Eggs
13. Witch
14. Ring
15. Paycheck
16. Candy
17. Magazine
18. Truck
19. Golf Bag
20. Cigaretts

This is your list of 20 items.. She can make her own list, and you can memorize all 20 items in order, from 1-to-20.. from 20-to-1.. and any number at random she wants.. Here's how it works..

We represent things in our mind using systems.. For instance.. the number (1) is nothing but a concept.. and idea.. a notion.. It can be number or items.. or it can represent order/position.. The symbol we choose to represent this idea is "1".. Well, from now on.. when you think of the concept/idea/notion of (1).. I want you to visualize a Tree.. It stands alone, upright and tall, much like the number.. (2) is a Switch, it can either be ON or OFF, you only have two choices.. (3) is a tri-pod Stool, three legs.. (4) is a Car, 4 doors, tires, etc.. (5) the number of fingers on a Glove.. (6) the number of bullets in a magnum Gun.. (7) the most probably outcome with Dice.. (8) figure 8's with ice-skates, or 8 wheels on roller-skates.. (9) Cat has 9 lives.. (10) number of bowling pins.. (11) number of players in soccer, or you can visualize the two posts on a goal as the number.. (12) a dozen Eggs.. (13) unlucky number, think October, Halloween, Witch! (14) most common Gold standard 14k, Ring! (15) you get paid on the 1st and 15th of each month.. (16) Sweet 16, think Candy! (17) name of a popular Magazine.. (18) number of wheels on a Truck.. (19) number of clubs in a professional Golf Bag.. (20) number of cigaretts in a pack..

Congrats! You know your own list of Items.. But the object is to know hers.. In this memory representational system.. the tool of choice is "visualization".. each number is a concept/idea/notion which will be captured and represented by an image/visualization you can link to what you call a "number".. When she gives you an item.. you will take that item and associate it with your visual representation of that number..

Example: I recently did this on a waitress.. last Friday! Here's her list:

1. Table, 2. Phone, 3. Glass, 4. TV, 5. Hat, 6. Beer Glass, 7. Salt & Pepper, 8. Menu, 9. Trash Can, 10. Car, 11. Keychain, 12. Red Lipstick, 13. Tampon, 14. Sunglasses, 15. Stilettos, 16. Spoon, 17. Straw, 18. Condoms, 19. Diaphragm, 20. Boat

How the hell do I still remember? well.. that's because she's really cute.. but with respect to the Peg System.. When she wrote "table" for (1).. I visualized a Tree, and on that tree, it was growing instead of fruits, Tables! For (2) A lightswitch which had a phone as a cover.. for (3) A Stool made out of Glass.. (4) A Car with a TV inside.. (5) A gentleman putting on his Gloves to take off his Hat.. (6) A hill-billy shooting Beer Glasses with his Gun.. (7) Salt-Pepper shakers that looked like Dice.. (8) Hooters girls rolling on Skates to give you your Menu.. (9) Cats next to a Trash can.. (10) My ex-gf throwing a bowling ball through the windshield of my car.. (11) a keychain of a soccer Goal.. (12) A kiss mark with red lipstick on an Egg shell.. (13) A b*tchy Witch on her period, riding a tampon.. (14) A rap video with guys wearing gold Rings and Sunglasses.. (15) The waitress saving her Paycheck to buy Stilettos.. (16) A chocolate Candy spoon.. (17) Jessica Alba on the cover of a Magazine drinking from a straw.. (18) A Trojan Truck full of condoms.. (19) A Golfer needing to control his breathing via his diaphragm before each shot.. (20) my father smoking Cigaretts on his boat..

You then ask her to tell you YOUR list first.. 1-to-20.. and then backwards.. and then "what was #?".. She won't be able to do it.. (if she can, she's a keeper!).. You then give her both lists to hold on to.. And tell her all items on HER list, 1-to-20, backwards.. then let her ask you any number.. Until you get either a "wow, that's crazy!" or a "how the hell do you do that?".. You then tell her YOUR list, just for fun.. and make note that you memorized "in perfect order" 40 items.. from both lists.. (tell her you're tired now.. you're a guy.. you need at least 30minutes to recharge your batteries.. and you'll tell her later..)

Why later? Well, you're going to see her in class later.. Instead of OFFERING to tell her "next time".. you can now test to see "gauge" her interest in you.. If it's there.. she'll say.. "hey, you still didn't show me how to do that memory thing".. or "you still need to show me that memory trick works"..

[Only-virgins]

Fast post GS. but it is a piano class I decided to take. Kind of missed the classroom you know? Class is in 2 days. I will have time to read that tomorrow GS, thanks, I am so tired right now it is insane. Like being sober and yet drunk. Just wanted to throw the piano thing in....I already have one thing in common with her night people...till tomorrow. That memory thing sounds fun haha. First I have to work on getting her to lunch.

[GrkScorp]

Great!

You can re-edit the list on the note.. (no talking during piano class!).. and list the 1st and 3rd things as..

- You look like someone who likes music, I can tell you have great taste

- You know how I know you have great taste? Because you think i'm funny.. Let me take a wild guess here, but you strike me as someone who would like the piano

(Remember, it's supposed to be a joke.. it's supposed to be funny.. that's the object of the note.. it's NOT a cheezy collection of pick-up lines.. it pokes fun at them.. with a funny punch at the end.. the subcommunication of making fun of pick-up lines is that you're better than that.. you're more socially intelligent than that.. you see her as more than that and don't see her as someone cheap "how most women feel when they have guys use cheezy lines on them, and cat-call them")

Women in piano classes.. hmm.. interesting.. challenging..

Not really an issue though if you're willing to open before class starts, or after class ends.. (Recommend before class starts! and pick up again after class ends) But you CAN'T open with a note if class is not going on.. that just SCREAMS "weak, wussy, scared, shy, intimidated by her, feels like he's not worthy enough for her, etc"

[Mish]

Hehe, Scorp and his bag of tricks. Nice one.

OV, practice it well, if you stuff it up half way through you may crush and burn

[IndiReloaded]

And there was this other one where they created the perfect girl via a computer and brought her to life.. Really old movies.. I think 80's films..

I loved those films.. I forgot the titles of them though..

Weird Science, like Sphinx said. The other one was "Simone". Good movie, the latter.

[miSSleepy]

Exactly! and if we had to name this internal improvement of ones self, and call it something a little more formal.. I don't know.. something different from manipulation of people and situations.. something distinct and seperate from "Outer game".. what would be a fitting name?

INNER game perhaps?

We've been in agreement all along! This was the point of this thread!

so why are you also telling him to manipulate people?

HAS ANYONE SEEN 'SCHOOL FOR SCOUNDRELS'??

This is kind of worse.

[GrkScorp]

so why are you also telling him to manipulate people?

Because he was ALSO asking me other questions unrelated to the thread..

But while we're on the topic and waiting from OV's feedback on piano-girl.. a word on manipulation..

EVERYTHING you do, say, or don't do or say.. is manipulation..

Your actions, or lack of actions, shape the world around you, and the people within it.. If you choose to work, you will get paid, and spend that money on goods/services you want.. and by doing that.. you manipulate the demand for those sectors.. Similarly, if you DON'T work.. that money that could have been yours will stay with someone else, and he/she will spend it on things they wany, and will manipulate those sectors accordingly..

Now, you can take manipulation and apply it to everything.. so let's apply it to people, specifically, young men and women (boys & girls).. A girl gets dressed up and walks outside of her house.. (manipulation?) Maybe yes, maybe no.. How do other women feel around her? Next to her? How do boys feel as she walks by? Has she changed the world around her? Have her actions caused people around her to respond differently? To feel differently? Would things be different if she didn't get dressed up that day?

Now, to be fair, let's apply it to guys.. Guys go outside of their house.. They are offering all this fun to those around them, being funny, interesting, and having those around them feeling great.. (manipulation?) Maybe, maybe not.. How do people feel when these guys come around them? When these guys give them attention? When these guys look at them? Compliment them? Touch them? Have their actions caused people to feel differently? Would things be different if they took this all away?

Absolutely.. why? Because things (feelings) were different when these things were there in the first place.. In the normal course of events, a girl may notice that other girls aren't too fond of her if she dresses up.. while guys may respond differently.. she'll have to make a trade-off.. but such trade-offs are either made by accident "unintentional", or on purpose.. "intentional".. but in either case.. they still hold the same effect.. to change and manipulate the world and people around them..

From an early age.. girls pick up on a new lingo.. "womanspeak" or "womanese"..

- "Omg! That looks so cute!" (That looks hot and sexy you lucky b*tch, I wish that would come in my size, I hate you for all the male attention you're going to get now)

- "We're just friends" (I haven't explicitly told him that i'm not interested in him.. but he still takes me places and gets me stuff, but if he tries to lay a finger on me, that'll be the last time he sees me)

- "He's too cocky/shallow/an assh0le" (He's so fcukn' hot, but his confidence bothers me, I don't feel like I stand a chance with him, so just go along with me and agree that he's lacking in the personality department)

- "He's not BF material" (He's not fcukable.. but he's a nice guy.. and I can't just say that or else i'd sound shallow, so let's all pretend there's something about him that's a deal-breaker besides his looks)

- "Why don't you give me your number instead?" (There's no way in hell I want to speak to you again, so just give me your number so that you can leave, and when you're not looking I can throw it out)

But what's more fitting is what girls DON'T do.. that constitutes manipulation.. Sitting there, passively.. accepting dinners, lunches, nights out, gifts, favors, etc.. (given, the guys who do that are idiots).. even though they have nothing but "friendly" intentions with such guys.. leading guys on to get such things.. using guys for nothing more than a good ego-boost.. flirting with guys just to create jealousy plot-lines.. acting cold & unresponsive to maintain an informational advantage until they're 200% sure how the guy feels about them, then get bored, and move along.. etc

(obviously, not all women are like this.. I'm fully aware i'm writing to you miSSleepy.. but a comfortable 80% are.. by default & by nature.. put them in a circle of friends, let them share ideas and tactics, and years later they grow up to form the manipulation guild as the masters of manipulation)

Is what i'm suggesting manipulation? Yes.. is it any less dirty? Probably not.. dating tactics are kids games.. hardcore manipulation takes place on a negotiation table, where the consequences are really serious.. and can cost lives or millions/billions of dollars.. the issue of intentional/unintentional attraction and manipulation of the other sex can only "cost" the guy some days/a few hundred dollars (or months/a few thoudand dollars if he's really stupid) and a broken heart if he got hit with one-itis.. similarly, it can "cost" the girl days/sh*tty sex/and a broken heart.. (or a child, marrying a back-up dancer, and getting divorced and giving him half of everything you have.. if she's really stupid)

The all too common argument to this is "oh, there's no need for kids games, people should just be mature and be themselves.. blah blah.. negative adjectives directed towards men/women who use manipulation.. positive adjectives directed towards men/women who don't use manipulation.. blah blah".. To that i'll say..

When 80+% of women are using manipulation so naturally & fluently, and it can cost guys serious time and money and heartbreak to fall for such crap.. they're almost left no choice but to throw that same crap back.. Not because they want to be mean, or because they like to immitate women or anything like that.. but because they don't feel like taking on the role of the longtermprovider or emotionaltampon for every woman they like.. The minority of women who don't play games (not the ones that "claim" they don't).. are largely at ease with the 95+% of the male population who doesn't have a clue about manipulation.. The majority of women love these guys.. the more of these guys, the more free stuff they get.. it's the 5% of guys they don't like.. because it's like you just made a better version of MS Word! How do you think Microsoft would feel for someone to come in and invade on their copyright? Manipulation is almost patented by these women.. and now these guys come in and take away that feeling of control and power? Not cool.. What can women do? Besides b*tch and nag at it and try and throw negative adjectives and symbolism in an effort to associate it with these guys.. the majority is now interested in a guy they feel they can't control, it's a challenge, how rare.. the minority is simply creamed and taken unfair advantage of if such a guy can't realize that she's not playing games..

Good news?

Yeah, eventually.. down the line, this minority of men will become the vast majority.. to the point where women realize female games are inferior, and they stop.. eventually men will stop aswell, since they only use games to counter games.. then the vast majority of both men and women don't even bother using them anymore.. And, in an effort to complicate our courting system and navigate through our tangled web which we call dating; we would have done nothing more than simplify the entire process.. to the way it should have been all along..

[vashti]

I sure would like to see an objective study that validates all these silly claims you make about how women behave.

[IndiReloaded]

"He's too cocky/shallow/an assh0le" (He's so fcukn' hot, but his confidence bothers me, I don't feel like I stand a chance with him, so just go along with me and agree that he's lacking in the personality department)

I loved this one^. Is this what guys really think?

In my case it was:

"He's too cocky/shallow/an assh0le"
= (He's too cocky/shallow/an asshole. He doesn't stand a chance w/me.)

Beyond that, never gave them a second thought.

[Only-virgins]

Because he was ALSO asking me other questions unrelated to the thread..

But while we're on the topic and waiting from OV's feedback on piano-girl.. a word on manipulation..

EVERYTHING you do, say, or don't do or say.. is manipulation..

Your actions, or lack of actions, shape the world around you, and the people within it.. If you choose to work, you will get paid, and spend that money on goods/services you want.. and by doing that.. you manipulate the demand for those sectors.. Similarly, if you DON'T work.. that money that could have been yours will stay with someone else, and he/she will spend it on things they wany, and will manipulate those sectors accordingly..

Now, you can take manipulation and apply it to everything.. so let's apply it to people, specifically, young men and women (boys & girls).. A girl gets dressed up and walks outside of her house.. (manipulation?) Maybe yes, maybe no.. How do other women feel around her? Next to her? How do boys feel as she walks by? Has she changed the world around her? Have her actions caused people around her to respond differently? To feel differently? Would things be different if she didn't get dressed up that day?

Now, to be fair, let's apply it to guys.. Guys go outside of their house.. They are offering all this fun to those around them, being funny, interesting, and having those around them feeling great.. (manipulation?) Maybe, maybe not.. How do people feel when these guys come around them? When these guys give them attention? When these guys look at them? Compliment them? Touch them? Have their actions caused people to feel differently? Would things be different if they took this all away?

Absolutely.. why? Because things (feelings) were different when these things were there in the first place.. In the normal course of events, a girl may notice that other girls aren't too fond of her if she dresses up.. while guys may respond differently.. she'll have to make a trade-off.. but such trade-offs are either made by accident "unintentional", or on purpose.. "intentional".. but in either case.. they still hold the same effect.. to change and manipulate the world and people around them..

From an early age.. girls pick up on a new lingo.. "womanspeak" or "womanese"..

- "Omg! That looks so cute!" (That looks hot and sexy you lucky b*tch, I wish that would come in my size, I hate you for all the male attention you're going to get now)

- "We're just friends" (I haven't explicitly told him that i'm not interested in him.. but he still takes me places and gets me stuff, but if he tries to lay a finger on me, that'll be the last time he sees me)

- "He's too cocky/shallow/an assh0le" (He's so fcukn' hot, but his confidence bothers me, I don't feel like I stand a chance with him, so just go along with me and agree that he's lacking in the personality department)

- "He's not BF material" (He's not fcukable.. but he's a nice guy.. and I can't just say that or else i'd sound shallow, so let's all pretend there's something about him that's a deal-breaker besides his looks)

- "Why don't you give me your number instead?" (There's no way in hell I want to speak to you again, so just give me your number so that you can leave, and when you're not looking I can throw it out)

But what's more fitting is what girls DON'T do.. that constitutes manipulation.. Sitting there, passively.. accepting dinners, lunches, nights out, gifts, favors, etc.. (given, the guys who do that are idiots).. even though they have nothing but "friendly" intentions with such guys.. leading guys on to get such things.. using guys for nothing more than a good ego-boost.. flirting with guys just to create jealousy plot-lines.. acting cold & unresponsive to maintain an informational advantage until they're 200% sure how the guy feels about them, then get bored, and move along.. etc

(obviously, not all women are like this.. I'm fully aware i'm writing to you miSSleepy.. but a comfortable 80% are.. by default & by nature.. put them in a circle of friends, let them share ideas and tactics, and years later they grow up to form the manipulation guild as the masters of manipulation)

Is what i'm suggesting manipulation? Yes.. is it any less dirty? Probably not.. dating tactics are kids games.. hardcore manipulation takes place on a negotiation table, where the consequences are really serious.. and can cost lives or millions/billions of dollars.. the issue of intentional/unintentional attraction and manipulation of the other sex can only "cost" the guy some days/a few hundred dollars (or months/a few thoudand dollars if he's really stupid) and a broken heart if he got hit with one-itis.. similarly, it can "cost" the girl days/sh*tty sex/and a broken heart.. (or a child, marrying a back-up dancer, and getting divorced and giving him half of everything you have.. if she's really stupid)

The all too common argument to this is "oh, there's no need for kids games, people should just be mature and be themselves.. blah blah.. negative adjectives directed towards men/women who use manipulation.. positive adjectives directed towards men/women who don't use manipulation.. blah blah".. To that i'll say..

When 80+% of women are using manipulation so naturally & fluently, and it can cost guys serious time and money and heartbreak to fall for such crap.. they're almost left no choice but to throw that same crap back.. Not because they want to be mean, or because they like to immitate women or anything like that.. but because they don't feel like taking on the role of the longtermprovider or emotionaltampon for every woman they like.. The minority of women who don't play games (not the ones that "claim" they don't).. are largely at ease with the 95+% of the male population who doesn't have a clue about manipulation.. The majority of women love these guys.. the more of these guys, the more free stuff they get.. it's the 5% of guys they don't like.. because it's like you just made a better version of MS Word! How do you think Microsoft would feel for someone to come in and invade on their copyright? Manipulation is almost patented by these women.. and now these guys come in and take away that feeling of control and power? Not cool.. What can women do? Besides b*tch and nag at it and try and throw negative adjectives and symbolism in an effort to associate it with these guys.. the majority is now interested in a guy they feel they can't control, it's a challenge, how rare.. the minority is simply creamed and taken unfair advantage of if such a guy can't realize that she's not playing games..

Good news?

Yeah, eventually.. down the line, this minority of men will become the vast majority.. to the point where women realize female games are inferior, and they stop.. eventually men will stop aswell, since they only use games to counter games.. then the vast majority of both men and women don't even bother using them anymore.. And, in an effort to complicate our courting system and navigate through our tangled web which we call dating; we would have done nothing more than simplify the entire process.. to the way it should have been all along..

I can't be the only person here who enjoyed reading this can I? There is a lot of truth to this. Supported to me by observation. I don't think all guys who take girls out to lunch are idiots though, I would do it once or twice...and if there is no progress I am out.

Piano girl is Bi-sexual!!!!

I loved this one^. Is this what guys really think?

In my case it was:

"He's too cocky/shallow/an assh0le"
= (He's too cocky/shallow/an asshole. He doesn't stand a chance w/me.)

Beyond that, never gave them a second thought.

I believe you because you are logical as well. It is pretty obvious though that women tend to saying something and mean something completely different. For example: "What is wrong honey? something is bothering you"..."nothing"(real meaning: something) lol

[misombra]

lol those interpretations couldn't be any more off the mark.