I hate how "adults" "hang out".

[Aeradalia]

Haha... this is hilarious... go forth, try to not hurt anything as you trample through life.

I'm sorry, but other than making the kill as swift as possible... there isn't any more thought given to the animal. That is far more thought given than those who slaughter animals everyday in a factory environment.

Vashti... the psyche of the average person is to not feel remorse when they kill for food. That is humanity's 'default' setting. Your remorse, as well as Charlieboy's projection of possible remorse are learned concepts. By taking into account majority... your views would be the exception, not the rule.

Not feeling remorse does not equal enjoyment from the kill. The lack of remorse just equates to an acceptance that the animal has died and is now food. Nothing more. Psychoanalyze the process all you want, but for a 'normal' person this is the response. To expect to feel remorse in such scenarios is a new learned concept -- something taught, not innately felt.

[Charlie Boy II]

Actually Aerdalia, I don't think empathy is a learned concept. I'd say its pretty innate.

Also, I don't mind having a discussion about this but please refrain from beginning responses with statements like "this is hilarious!!!". It's a fairly infantile way of making yourself feel like you have the upper hand. I'm not particularly directing that at you, I saw it all the time. Even when I see it in discussions I have no part in it drives me nuts.

[Aeradalia]

I really can't address either your attitude towards motherhood or nursing. They are based solely on your own experiences, and as such, I suppose it might be hard to conceive of it being any other way for other people.

The same could be said on your views. Particular in regards to hunting or holding grudges that were handed down like a family heirloom.

Having babies is rarely a noble thing. It's just replenishing the numbers needed for the species to survive.

Motherhood is rarely a noble thing because so many fail quite miserably at it. The child grows up to be mediocre or a complete failure.

Being the 'bringer or life' is not a noble quality in a woman... it's her default purpose in life... why receive higher status for being given ovaries instead of testicles?

No, motherhood and reproduction are mediocre at best. Raising a child that benefits humanity in a profound and positive way is worthy of praise. If we keep raising all the others to the same status... then there wouldn't be any distinction between average and remarkable, now would there?

Nursing homes and hospitals are notorious for cruelty and neglect... I'm sure you do the 'best' that you can with your own occupation. There are plenty who do the best they can in their jobs, but in this field, sadly the majority are not a kind and caring lot.

[Aeradalia]

Actually Aerdalia, I don't think empathy is a learned concept. I'd say its pretty innate.

Empathy has to be taught early on in child development... because we are born 100% selfish and unaware of others feeling similar things as we do.

Remember such things as "you need to share because it's no fun not having such nice things..." and "how would that make you feel if someone did that to you?"

If we innately felt empathy, there would be no need for children to be told in great detail over a few years the concept of others having similar feelings as themselves.

Learned concepts can be drilled rather profusely into your behavior to where they feel 'innate'... but they aren't.

[doppelgaenger]

This thread is gayer than my aunt Tom.

[Charlie Boy II]

Empathy has to be taught early on in child development... because we are born 100% selfish and unaware of others feeling similar things as we do.

Remember such things as "you need to share because it's no fun not having such nice things..." and "how would that make you feel if someone did that to you?"

If we innately felt empathy, there would be no need for children to be told in great detail over a few years the concept of others having similar feelings as themselves.

Learned concepts can be drilled rather profusely into your behavior to where they feel 'innate'... but they aren't.

So you are saying that the ability to relate to the pain and suffering of others is a social construct?

And your basis for that claim is children need to be taught to share their toys?

[doppelgaenger]

So you are saying that the ability to relate to the pain and suffering of others is a social construct

Actually, it is a social construct.

[vashti]

Whatever Aeradalia. You obviously have a need to be right about this. I'll let you "win" because I can't see us reaching an agreement, but I do wish to say that the majority of nurses I know are compassionate, good people (I've only known a couple of lazy ones), and my kids are well above average in regards to quality. I'm sorry your experience has been different.

Also, nursing home staff are mostly not nurses, but nursing assistants. The general public rarely knows the difference.

[Aeradalia]

So you are saying that the ability to relate to the pain and suffering of others is a social construct?

And your basis for that claim is children need to be taught to share their toys?

Not necessarily share their toys... to not hit other children, stick things in other childrens' ears, step on them, bite them, or steal their toys.

Children are downright vicious.

And yes, the ability to relate to pain and suffering of others is a social construct.

Why is that so hard to believe? Even though we have instincts... we are not completely tethered to them. We learn other things... many of which may be in direct conflict with our instincts...

[Doc Durian]

Yes but death and cruelty to animals is a direct result of your enjoying shooting your gun and eating fresh meat, isn't it? I think your distinction is a bit spurious.

"death and cruelty to animals"

+

"direct result of your enjoying shooting your gun and eating fresh meat"

=

Red herring

[vashti]

Not necessarily share their toys... to not hit other children, stick things in other childrens' ears, step on them, bite them, or steal their toys.

Neither of my kids were physically aggressive, certainly not vicious, and little kids don't "steal" toys - they don't understand about ownership. THAT is what is taught.

[Aeradalia]

Whatever Aeradalia. You obviously have a need to be right about this. I'll let you "win" because I can't see us reaching an agreement, but I do wish to say that the majority of nurses I know are compassionate, good people (I've only known a couple of lazy ones), and my kids are well above average in regards to quality. I'm sorry your experience has been different.

Also, nursing home staff are mostly not nurses, but nursing assistants. The general public rarely knows the difference.

Nursing 'aids' I think is the term you are looking for... but in either case... RN's were just as lazy and indifferent to the needs of their residents. I am happy you have found a working environment in this field that has so many compassionate and good people...

I'm glad you consider your children to be exceptional... but have you placed them against the background of national mediocrity to see if they truly stand out?

Forfeit if you'd like... it matters little to me. The purpose was never to persuade you... it was simply to defend my stance. Most of your debates end in 'agree to disagree'...

[Doc Durian]

Neither of my kids were physically aggressive, certainly not viscious, and little kids don't "steal" toys - they don't understand about ownership. THAT is what is taught.

No, they take what they want, what they need. Much like any other animal on this earth.

Ever see two dogs chewing on a brotherly bone together?

Instinct prohibits it.

[doppelgaenger]

Whatever Aeradalia. You obviously have a need to be right about this. I'll let you "win" because I can't see us reaching an agreement, but I do wish to say that the majority of nurses I know are compassionate, good people (I've only known a couple of lazy ones), and my kids are well above average in regards to quality. I'm sorry your experience has been different.

Also, nursing home staff are mostly not nurses, but nursing assistants. The general public rarely knows the difference.

I don't see what this has to do with the topic... but there are some good nurses out there. My mom for example. However, in her 25+ years of experience as a nurse, in the several facilities she's worked at, many, many of her fellow coworkers *were* nasty to patients, and even other staff members.

I mean it takes a lot of tolerance to be a good nurse. It really takes some character to be able to treat and serve an old man nicely, especially after he had been hitting one you for 3 previous days. Now imagine how a plain ordinary nurse would act.

[Charlie Boy II]

Not necessarily share their toys... to not hit other children, stick things in other childrens' ears, step on them, bite them, or steal their toys.

Children are downright vicious.

And yes, the ability to relate to pain and suffering of others is a social construct.

Why is that so hard to believe? Even though we have instincts... we are not completely tethered to them. We learn other things... many of which may be in direct conflict with our instincts...

If that is the case, it would appear to be a rather pervasive social construct, wouldn't you agree? After all I don't believe I've ever heard of a human group of any culture or in any historical period (including early humans) that did not exercise a degree of care for their young, or their old, or their invalid.

If what you are seeing is true, you might reasonably expect to see human groups where empathy was not present. A society, in modern terms, of sociopaths - utterly indifferent to each other. I've never heard of such a thing.

I don't suppose you have some sort of source to support your rather definitive claim? There is surely a great deal of scientific and biological evidence to support the contrary view.