Anti-Americanism

[Kiechi]

we have cultural diffences, but that doesnt mean one is more inferior than the other, just different. you may call us heathens, but RIOTS start from what we call soccer games in europe and in south america. at least here, all the violence is in the field and not the parking lots and cities.

That's the wonder of American sports. There are fistfights, showers of beer (and faeces, canned dog food and coins), portable toilets kicked over with opposition fans inside them, knifings, deafening verbal abuse, full-scale riots, cars set alight, disabled fans stripped and their clothing destroyed, players puking because they've breathed in the pepper spray used by police to dissuade two sets of fans from kicking the sweet bejesus out of each other - and not a single hooligan in sight. Amazing when you think about it.

In August I saw Chelsea play Milan in Giants Stadium, New Jersey. As is usual when the soccer superpowers come to town, the atmosphere was carnivalesque. There were Chelsea and Milan, Poland, Portugal and England shirts with nobody so much as exchanging a dirty look.

Compare that to an incident at a 1980s Philadelphia Eagles game (as recounted in Jere Longman's new book about the Eagles, If Football's A Religion, Why Don't We Have A Prayer?). Two Philadelphia fans assist a fan in a wheelchair to the top of a steep ramp. They notice that he's wearing a Dallas shirt, so they turn him round and say: "Take off the jersey or you're going for a ride." The terrified Cowboy strips off his shirt - and the Eagles fans rip it to shreds.

There's not much soul-searching about sports hooliganism within the US - and what little there is tends to focus on the behaviour of African-American basketball players rather than predominantly white football fans. For no matter how many college games end in drunken mob violence (as many do), no matter how many American city centres see running battles between sports fans and riot police, the US sports media continues to present hooliganism as something utterly un-American.

[url]http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1660884,00.html[/url]

[Tedel]

Wow...

I'm sorry if I strucked a (few) nerve(s) with what I posted yesterday, but I just wanted to point out some things that are usually said about the United States as a country and nation.

My intention was not to criticize, just to point out what I've heard about the USA all my life. Those opinions are not my opinions.

That been said, I must add that, from what some of you have been posting since yesterday, it's pretty obvious there are many stereotypes hovering around. Bush (or the US government, in general) is one thing and the people is another. Paris Hilton is one thing and the girl next door is absolutely different. No one argues that.

Changing topic, I disagree with the supposed fact that everybody wants to be American. People immigrate to the US just because you have good wages. I don't know the exact figures, but here a farmer who produces peanuts receives 0.50 nuevos soles (Peruvian currency) per kilogram (about US$ 0.17) and that's miserable. Specially if you take into account that a normal guy like me spends 15 soles a day. This is what motivate people to immigrate: if you have children, the worst thing you can listen from them is this: "Dad, I'm hungry".

As for individualism, I don't know where it started, but it is worldwide spread now, so every society is being equally damaged by it. Emo fashion, suicides, people shooting at their schools, rape associated with torture and murder are everyday in the newspapers, not just in the US.

I didn't start this thread. I commented because I (think I) know some of the ideas that motivate anti-Americanism and I wanted to share them. That's it.

[vashti]

My intention was not to criticize, just to point out what I've heard about the USA all my life.

I guess that just goes to show you that what a person hears their whole life may be inaccurate, and is probably based (at least in part) on bias and xenophobia.

Changing topic, I disagree with the supposed fact that everybody wants to be American. People immigrate to the US just because you have good wages. I don't know the exact figures, but here a farmer who produces peanuts receives 0.50 nuevos soles (Peruvian currency) per kilogram (about US$ 0.17) and that's miserable. Specially if you take into account that a normal guy like me spends 15 soles a day. This is what motivate people to immigrate: if you have children, the worst thing you can listen from them is this: "Dad, I'm hungry".

This is not new... the search for a better life is the reason most (if not all) our ancestors came to America. Were it not for the potato famine, I'd probably still be in Ireland. I don't think I said everyone wants to be an American; I said that they want to come to America.

For the record, many of our farmers would be starving to death were it not for government subsidies. Yes, it's true. Our "evil" government actually pays inflated prices to our farmers so they don't starve to death. Now come on, admit it! Wouldn't it be great if that happened in your country, too?

As for individualism, I don't know where it started, but it is worldwide spread now, so every society is being equally damaged by it. Emo fashion, suicides, people shooting at their schools, rape associated with torture and murder are everyday in the newspapers, not just in the US.

Ha! Do you imagine that violence was invented by Western civilization? I think not. And just as people are damaged by Western civilization, they also benefit from it.

[Gribble]

Soccer's a blast to play. Thing is, watching it's dull because nothing much happens in a game. Scores are very low. 90% of the time you're watching guys kick the ball back and forth down the field, never even getting a shot at a goal. That's why it isn't very popular in America, I think. There just isn't enough tension.

[Tedel]

mm... More than xenophobia, I'd say it's because of the lack of an American identity. You are just a mix of a number of cultures.

No, I don't think that violence was invented by the western civilization. That happens everywhere.

No, I don't agree with subsidies. That doesn't help. Why don't you tell Nestle, for example (I do know it's not an American company, but whatever) to pay more for kilo of coffee to producers instead? or to share some of its revenues with them instead?

[Stalin_Skaya]

America is the most popular for its working surplus. It has too much work compared to other nations.

Quality of life is Norway. And if you want good wages the minimum wage in the UK is twice as high as in America. But of course no work.

America is the promised land and always will be, always work. And there is still land in America to be claimed! its all dessert but still.

[vashti]

You are just a mix of a number of cultures.

I guess I consider that to be an advantage.

No, I don't agree with subsidies. That doesn't help. Why don't you tell Nestle, for example (I do know it's not an American company, but whatever) to pay more for kilo of coffee to producers instead? or to share some of its revenues with them instead?

I'm not really sure how that would be much different than government subsidies, to be honest. Besides, you know how it is... even if the producers get more for coffee, the markets raise their prices, and the farmers STILL can't afford to buy it. Really, the only long term solution is to move into a new line of work.

[Junket]

America is the promised land and always will be, always work. And there is still land in America to be claimed! its all dessert but still.

It's all dessert?

Like a sundae?

Vanilla maybe?

Anyway, I assume you mean "desert". And if you think that, you might wanna Google that and fix your post. There's plenty of non-desert land to go around.

[Gigabitch]

I'd like to mention that I technically live in the desert, and none of it is "there to be claimed". I actually work in the land planning field, and believe me, land is not cheap.

[IndiReloaded]

Well, there's always the glassed-over nuclear test sites. Geiger counter & lead house not included.

[Michael6084]

i agree with vashti that I consider us being a mixture of cultures is an advantage. i look at it this way: what we lack in length of history, we make up for in being a culturally diverse group of people.

i started this thread and im glad to see that there are level-headed people out there as opposed to the insane ones who don't understand our culture, yet blast it out of ignorance.

i think the major problem is that non-americans who've never really visited or understood this country are fed anti-americanist views from others, live off of other anti-americanist sentiments in their environments, bottle it up and never really talk with an american, then end up exploding hatred at us.....and they don't know what the **** they're talking about a lot of times.

[IndiReloaded]

Haven't had this one yet:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xf9_9ZwqNI"]YouTube - Depeche Mode - People Are People[/ame]

[Mish]

Indi, I have that song on my DVD. I love Depeche Mode

i'm sorry but i have to vent. i dont hate Europeans/Canadians/Australians, i just hate the ignorant ones all over the world

this gets quite annoying as an american. so many people take the stereotype of an american as a "fat, lazy, white, mcdonalds loving people"

i dont mind people hating bush, but what i hate is ppl who hate 300 million americans because of bush. but we're supposedly an "inferior people", were "mindless killing machines", we are a "backwards nation".

the truth is every nation has their flaws. we invaded iraq and that's wrong, yet the EU looks at us as "murderers" yet they dont speak up about the colonial days when they took out whole civilizations and exterminated many people, including africans and south american indians. they took over large parts of africa, took over many places in asia including india. as for the british colonies here, they misrepresented us in parliament and put up unfair taxes.

then europeans tell us that if it werent for them and people like john locke and others in the Enlightenment, then the American Revolution wouldve never started. still, the American Revolution is the spark that helped inspire other places to start revolutions, such as the French Revolution and the Haitian Revolution.

What I found interesting in your post is that you talk about other people generalizing Americans and yet you yourself a couple of times start to generalize in reference to other people.

I think it's good that you recognized from the very beginning that you only hate "the ignorant ones all over the world" and not all Europeans, Australians or Canadians, but I would like to bring to your attention that further down into your post you went into descriptions such as "EU looks at us as "murderers"", "then europeans tell us ", "i hate is ppl who hate 300 million americans".

Just like not all americans are bad or good, surely not every European or person living in a country member of EU looks at americans as murderers. Personaly I don't know a single person who hates 300 million americans. I read a few articles in the media trying to stir up those views, I read a lot of propaganda trying to point people in that direction to stir up nationalism, but I don't know any one person who would say something as silly as hating all americans.

Sometimes you have to be careful what you read and how you respond to what you read. People sometimes say things just to get your attention and get a pre-planned reaction out of you.

[Michael6084]

i purposely generalized because i hardly ever see americans actually responding to the radical anti-americanist person. for me, making a very generalized view of europeans/canadians/australians and anyone else against america was to have people be "enlightened" and have an idea what it's like through the american's eyes.

i personally KNOW all europeans are not all "america haters" and i've made that argument in other places too. it's human nature that in a group of people, you'll have mentally sharp people and slower people in the head in that same population. that's why i PURPOSELY said at the beginning that i don't hate the europeans/aussies/canadians, just ignorant ones. i'm not naive and i know what i said and still meant what i said. just want to get that out.

my main goal and i thought people would see the underlying point of my post: the reaction of an american and how he or she feels about anti-americanism. in that sense, you had to suspend the idea of "the reaction of Michael6084 and how he feels...". i should've probably outlined that a little bit better though.


EDIT: also about the 300 million americans....the reaction you got from thinking that you dont believe that they hate all them is what i try to get american haters to get by . they say they hate "americans" but dont realize how much of a stretch it is to hate every american based on Bush. you cant describe americans as one template. it's almost impossible because of the diversity and, in my opinion, beauty of america. i myself am mixed: i'm 50% hungarian, 50% filipino.

[Michael6084]

but i'm going to stop posting here. i'm making more posts not related to loveforum.net lol