Guantanamo Bay is an outrage

[DoesntMatter]

Personally, there is almost no way to gauge a persons intelligence on this forum. Almost none at all. Some people I see as straight-shooters, others I see caught up in a hysteria of ... well, different things. The closest you can come is through a discussion on things like chemistry, math, physics, biology, etc, but the people you debate with need to know something about it first

And yes, I flame Indi to keep the fire going Nothing warms me from the inside more than a good verbal or physical fight. Although I have a reputation for wanting to take the latter too far

But if you guys ever want to see people REALLY getting flamed, post something ignorant on sciencemadness forum. Something either chemically, mathematically, or just otherwise scientifically incorrect. You will get your ass handed to you by the entire forum in unison and will be flamed so hard you will never come back. One guy relatively recently was warned by an admin for taking up bandwidth by posting a picture of the related reactivities of groups to electrophilic aromatic substitution because it was considered such common knowledge (which it is). He didn't even post anything wrong

[Junket]

iEveryone knows the US is basing it's timetable of withdrawal on when the violences quells. Continued violence is going to prolong that and keep us there longer. Answer this Fras, or Indi who thanked it. Am I missing something? Are they that stupid? I think the answer is no, you and Fras are just wrong in thinking they only want the US to withdraw. They want the US to withdraw and THEM to look like victors. Should have mentioned that for the sake of completeness

The violence will quell when America gets it's way. Which will mean submission.

Many aren't submitting. Either they're that stupid to agitate the US, or they're that brave, or both.

So what if they wanna look like victors? It's their country, why shouldn't they?

I'd like to shoot your parents and rape your sister, so how quick you'd turn your ass up.

[DoesntMatter]

The violence will quell when America gets it's way. Which will mean submission.

Many aren't submitting. Either they're that stupid to agitate the US, or they're that brave, or both.

Submission to what? To not killing?

People aren't submitting to what Fras? To democracy? I agree they were better off under a dictatorship because they need an iron-first to rule them. It was OK to rule them with an iron-first when Saddam was there, but if America did that now the world would shit its pants

So what if they wanna look like victors? It's their country, why shouldn't they?

They want to look like they defeated America and be victors in that sense. If they didn't try killing Americans, there would be no victor, there would be a withdrawal and the Iraqis can govern themselves

I'd like to shoot your parents and rape your sister, so how quick you'd turn your ass up.

By you using that as an argument for an insurgency means you must think this is widespread. Way to buy into the far-left propaganda. The far-left and foreigners who are anti-American want to think it is. Soldiers have raped Iraqis, but in how many instances? Not enough to sponsor a fuccking insurgency. These cases are extremely limited. None of my friends who've been to Iraq or family members who have been to Iraq said they've ever seen it happen or been aware that it has been a problem. The incidents are isolated, but like an insurgent, you use anything you can to justify killing American soldiers

You know how many civilians were raped by German soldiers in Russia in WW2? There's an entire generation of babies the product of these rapes, I can't remember the name. Or the Japanese raping Chinese women in WW2. These things have happened on a large-scale in past wars. It's happened in Iraq but in isolated instances, and you're using that as justification for the insurgency. Pathetic, and anti-American

[DoesntMatter]

You know Fras, you can criticize the war all you want, the leaders (government) that started it, tell everyone how the strategy sucks balls, and that's perfectly fine

But spreading that slanderous filth about American troops in Iraq, and acting like that is ample justification for killing American soldiers, is just over the fuccking line. Are you American or what? Liberalism can rip apart the Bush administration, say Bush is a dumb prick who deserves a bayonet up his ass, etc, but for fuccks sake NOT that. If you were in the room with my I would damn near pistol-whip you

[Junket]

America isn't even American anymore, so stop tootin' that stupid ass horn.

America was a farming society.

America was state's rights.

America was less taxing.

America was isolationist.

America was something the world had never seen.

Now it's no different from most any other power hungry civilization.

Their culture cannot accept "democracy".

You can't force revolution like that.

The people need to want it, and do it for themselves.

Now the people want us out, and they're doing it for themselves, and they'll have every right to claim victory when we do.

Do you think there had to have been any cases of rape for a rumor like that to start? Hell no, but whether or not they happened, doesn't change the fact that yes, rebels will indeed use any excuse to kill American soldiers. It's called PROPAGANDA. So what, you going to change their mind on it? You're just a stupid white privileged Yankee living comfortably, playing your games and going to your fancy school. The only persons whose mind you need to change are the ones killing your beloved GI's. Good luck with that.

[IndiReloaded]

They want to look like they defeated America and be victors in that sense. If they didn't try killing Americans, there would be no victor, there would be a withdrawal and the Iraqis can govern themselves.

Its not about who 'looks like the victor', DM. That is so trite I can't even believe you are mentioning it. Do you really think the international community doesn't realize the US *couldn't* go in & bomb everything to hell if they wanted? Of course, the problem is you could do that exactly ONCE & then make the whole world go to hell in a handbasket...

Were you abused as a child, by chance? Your ideas about foreign policy remind me of that. If a small child were to kick your foot in anger, the subtlest response you can think of is to beat them within an inch of their life?

Since it came up, obliquely, I thought the way the iron curtain was brought down was a LOT more intelligently done.

[IndiReloaded]

But spreading that slanderous filth about American troops in Iraq, and acting like that is ample justification for killing American soldiers, is just over the fuccking line. Are you American or what?

Oh brother. He's human, DM, above all else. Grow up.

[Junket]

I'd also like to add.

America was the underdog trying to prove itself in it's early days.

We're not, anymore.

We're the oppressive world police, now.

Afghanistan was the underdog.

Iraq was the underdog.

Vietnam was the underdog.

The last time America was the underdog, could arguably be World War II.

[DoesntMatter]

*sigh* I can't be bothered to respond anymore

[Gribble]

Personally, there is almost no way to gauge a persons intelligence on this forum. Almost none at all. Some people I see as straight-shooters, others I see caught up in a hysteria of ... well, different things. The closest you can come is through a discussion on things like chemistry, math, physics, biology, etc, but the people you debate with need to know something about it first

And yes, I flame Indi to keep the fire going Nothing warms me from the inside more than a good verbal or physical fight. Although I have a reputation for wanting to take the latter too far

But if you guys ever want to see people REALLY getting flamed, post something ignorant on sciencemadness forum. Something either chemically, mathematically, or just otherwise scientifically incorrect. You will get your ass handed to you by the entire forum in unison and will be flamed so hard you will never come back. One guy relatively recently was warned by an admin for taking up bandwidth by posting a picture of the related reactivities of groups to electrophilic aromatic substitution because it was considered such common knowledge (which it is). He didn't even post anything wrong

Sure you can gauge intelligence here. For example. you're quite book smart but otherwise retarded.

[DoesntMatter]

lol Gribble, you don't even have enough information to qualify me for being "book smart." But thanks

[Mish]

Best case scenario: They storm the capital and overthrow the government, hang and deface the dictator and his wife.

That had already been done several times over. See Russian October revolution.

What was the result? A new dictator came in who was more efficient at killing people.

[Mish]

What I meant by what you have quoted there, Mish, is that those caught on the battlefield (which is really hard to do because they're just like every other Iraq with weapons, except the only difference is that they point their guns at US troops and shoot) should be shot and killed on the battlefield and we should stop taking prisoners

And this is what usually happens anyway. If they shoot guns at US soldiers they make it impossible to take them prisoners in the first place. This is not how majority of detainees ended up at Guatanamo bay. They ended up there because either someone tipped off US millitary about their location or they were on the battlefield waving the white flag allowing US soldiers to take them prisoners in the first place. So do you propose shooting surrendering prisoners or shooting anyone suspected to be a terrorist just because someone else said they were so?

Umm, just about everyone knows it is meant to bypass the US constitution, they mention that in about every news article ever written about Guantanamo. Similarly we have CIA locations in Egypt and other random countries to do interrogations that can involve some light torture because we "can't" do that here in the US

And you don't see it as problem? You don't see that the president as operating with war time powers outside a constitution as an issue? A president with suspicious motives which seem to benefit suspicious structures. You don't see how this system put in place can be easily turned around and used against ordinary US citizents? (If it's not being used for these ends already) I can show you a couple of examples from recent modern history where this turn around did occur and very quickly.

[IndiReloaded]

And yes, I flame Indi to keep the fire going Nothing warms me from the inside more than a good verbal or physical fight. Although I have a reputation for wanting to take the latter too far

*sigh* I can't be bothered to respond anymore

Make up sex?

[DoesntMatter]

Sex with foreign citizens is the best kind of good-will mission. Yes