Mac vs PC - Which is better? / Anyone got Vista?

[anachronistic]

I think it's cool with computers how you teach yourself.

thanks

i'm a very curious person.

[Tiay]

Tiay,I know that this may shock you,but...

oh gosh, what is it?

I LIVE IN SOUTH AFRICA & HAVE SCARCELY SEEN MAC'S USED,AT ALL!

yeah, I expected that, after all you've mentioned as much before! Don't treat me like an idiot please.

well apparently AllAfrican.com says there are. Hmmmm.. should I trust what one person with a specific set of experiences and obvious anti-mac bias says, or should I trust what an african media outlet says based on what must've been some sort of survey... hmmmmm...

I don't understand why this gets to you. Even if you condemn a whole community of people as being stupid and making the wrong choice based on what computer they use (do you realise how shallow this is?), then I'd expect you wouldn't even bother arguing with these 'idiots'.

There's one guy on photoshop tv who uses a PC laptop instead of a Macbook. He's a cool guy who's written many books on Adobe software, and for whatever reason he prefers the PC platform. However, I don't throw a mad tantrum when presented with the fact that somebody in the same industry as me (well, i'm a student, but you get the idea) uses a platform I don't personally prefer... "no!! i've NEVER seen a PC in MY industry before, that guy must be an idiot!". No, I just figure, everyone to their own!
Anyway, I think you're right, Macs are not used as much in the video media industry, it's more the print/desktop publishing/graphics stuff. I did some research. seems most movies are made on 'Avid'? There's debate over whether or not FCP is better/worse than Avid, with some saying that the old pro's are sticking with Avid just because they're used to that- there's nothing wrong with that of course, whatever gets the job done quickest.

No offense but what was the purpose of the history lesson?

to show that without Apples innovations, your PC's and your industry would not have developed the same way. Sure as I said, someone else would've probably come along eventually and made similar innovations and set similar standards. But it's not by accident that Apple has many "first's" in their history. Do you use a PDA? you have Newton to thank. Do you use a GUI? apple did that first (for consumers) too.
So, the purpose was to show you that even if you couldn't stand using a mac yourself, which is fair enough of course, there are still many things the company has introduced and influenced.

Are you saying that because Apple came up with those ideas first, that they are "better"or are more "en ovating"?
Because if that's the case,Ferrari cars have nothing on Ford cars,because Ford made the first Automobile Assembly Line...

yes, in that way, Farrari does have nothing on Ford. yay car analogy!
In what I personally value in a company, yes, constantly leading the industry as far as innovations go is a factor to be taken into account when deciding who's "best", even though I think the whole "best" thing is silly and pointless since there is no, and can never be, a "best", just as there can't be a "best" car. There can, however, be a "best" dog in show. Why? because the values used to judge who's best have already been agreed upon by all the contestants.
however, you and me use a different set of values to judge, and we will forever therefore come up with different results.

This could go on forever...

like the row between the 4x4 guy and the F1 guy who both refuse to admit that their different taste in cars may have something to do with what they're personally used to, what they're using it for, etc.

I say; I prefer macs, but that doesn't make them 'best'. If I was, for instance, making a movie, I might use Avid, or if I was a gamer, I would be an idiot to buy a mac, etc.. but for what I personally want to do, I prefer my platform. I don't have any problem with anybody using the platform that they prefer. I don't even have a problem with people in my industry using a different platform than me; it's just what they prefer.

you say; anybody who has a mac has made a mistake, is an idiot, and will eventually switch to my preferred platform. I have never seen a mac used in my industry, therefore macs must be non-existent in my industry even if statistics say they aren't.

honestly, i'm not trying to be pissy. But this does pretty much sum up what you've said. Which outlook strikes you as being most biased and prejudiced?


how come you dislike apple so much, you disregard the fact that they make a video editing app that has been used for major productions? Even if using FCP would drive you nuts, that doesn't mean you can't acknowledge the existence of it.

I'm so not getting sucked into this debate.

shit!

[Converse]

The thing I don't understand about MAC is why does it make it's software so damn complicated when it looks so simple in it's nice packaging lol.

[anachronistic]

oh gosh, what is it?



yeah, I expected that, after all you've mentioned as much before! Don't treat me like an idiot please.

well apparently AllAfrican.com says there are. Hmmmm.. should I trust what one person with a specific set of experiences and obvious anti-mac bias says, or should I trust what an african media outlet says based on what must've been some sort of survey... hmmmmm...

I don't understand why this gets to you. Even if you condemn a whole community of people as being stupid and making the wrong choice based on what computer they use (do you realise how shallow this is?), then I'd expect you wouldn't even bother arguing with these 'idiots'.

There's one guy on photoshop tv who uses a PC laptop instead of a Macbook. He's a cool guy who's written many books on Adobe software, and for whatever reason he prefers the PC platform. However, I don't throw a mad tantrum when presented with the fact that somebody in the same industry as me (well, i'm a student, but you get the idea) uses a platform I don't personally prefer... "no!! i've NEVER seen a PC in MY industry before, that guy must be an idiot!". No, I just figure, everyone to their own!
Anyway, I think you're right, Macs are not used as much in the video media industry, it's more the print/desktop publishing/graphics stuff. I did some research. seems most movies are made on 'Avid'? There's debate over whether or not FCP is better/worse than Avid, with some saying that the old pro's are sticking with Avid just because they're used to that- there's nothing wrong with that of course, whatever gets the job done quickest.



to show that without Apples innovations, your PC's and your industry would not have developed the same way. Sure as I said, someone else would've probably come along eventually and made similar innovations and set similar standards. But it's not by accident that Apple has many "first's" in their history. Do you use a PDA? you have Newton to thank. Do you use a GUI? apple did that first (for consumers) too.
So, the purpose was to show you that even if you couldn't stand using a mac yourself, which is fair enough of course, there are still many things the company has introduced and influenced.





yes, in that way, Farrari does have nothing on Ford. yay car analogy!
In what I personally value in a company, yes, constantly leading the industry as far as innovations go is a factor to be taken into account when deciding who's "best", even though I think the whole "best" thing is silly and pointless since there is no, and can never be, a "best", just as there can't be a "best" car. There can, however, be a "best" dog in show. Why? because the values used to judge who's best have already been agreed upon by all the contestants.
however, you and me use a different set of values to judge, and we will forever therefore come up with different results.




like the row between the 4x4 guy and the F1 guy who both refuse to admit that their different taste in cars may have something to do with what they're personally used to, what they're using it for, etc.

I say; I prefer macs, but that doesn't make them 'best'. If I was, for instance, making a movie, I might use Avid, or if I was a gamer, I would be an idiot to buy a mac, etc.. but for what I personally want to do, I prefer my platform. I don't have any problem with anybody using the platform that they prefer. I don't even have a problem with people in my industry using a different platform than me; it's just what they prefer.

you say; anybody who has a mac has made a mistake, is an idiot, and will eventually switch to my preferred platform. I have never seen a mac used in my industry, therefore macs must be non-existent in my industry even if statistics say they aren't.

honestly, i'm not trying to be pissy. But this does pretty much sum up what you've said. Which outlook strikes you as being most biased and prejudiced?


how come you dislike apple so much, you disregard the fact that they make a video editing app that has been used for major productions? Even if using FCP would drive you nuts, that doesn't mean you can't acknowledge the existence of it.


shit!

lol tiay you're a master debater.

[Tiay]

lol tiay you're a master debater.

thankies! and you're a non-freaky linux user who may soar over the cars in his jet plane, but only "look down" on them in terms of that analogy.
(.. did that make sense?)

The thing I don't understand about MAC is why does it make it's software so damn complicated when it looks so simple in it's nice packaging lol.

dunno, what was it? To me, they seem almost too simplified sometimes; like, my mom can make a website on iweb and that's great, but it's so 'dumbed down' i'd rather use golive or whatever.

[anachronistic]

thankies! and you're a non-freaky linux user who may soar over the cars in his jet plane, but only "look down" on them in terms of that analogy.
(.. did that make sense?)



dunno, what was it? To me, they seem almost too simplified sometimes; like, my mom can make a website on iweb and that's great, but it's so 'dumbed down' i'd rather use golive or whatever.

lol that's my mojo.

btw i use dreamweaver for websites... sometimes text editors. dreamweaver gives you a design view as well as a coding view, so you can code stuff that you couldn't design, and vice-versa. really an awesome tool.

[Tiay]

lol that's my mojo.

btw i use dreamweaver for websites... sometimes text editors. dreamweaver gives you a design view as well as a coding view, so you can code stuff that you couldn't design, and vice-versa. really an awesome tool.

oh, golive has that too. though I think the golive code is said to be clumsier? I'm not sure. Might switch to freeway, though...

edit: oh, ever coded a css site? I sure haven't.. but it sounds really cool =P

[anachronistic]

oh, golive has that too. though I think the golive code is said to be clumsier? I'm not sure. Might switch to freeway, though...

edit: oh, ever coded a css site? I sure haven't.. but it sounds really cool =P

i've 'coded' 5 css sites, with embedded java too.

css is pretty easy, and it saves you time and work.


i don't know if golive gives you this, but in dreamweaver you can make dwt files, which are templates, and you can base specific pages to that template, and it's quite useful for when you want to save time updating links and stuff.

[Chimeros0]

Thanks again Lilwing...

OK Tiay,I get your point.

You are a huge fan of Apple & Mac's,whilst I am not.

*Quote[honestly, i'm not trying to be pissy. But this does pretty much sum up what you've said. Which outlook strikes you as being most biased and prejudiced?]Quote*
Are you trying to say that your opinion of Mac's,Apple & PC's are not biased and prejudiced in any way?
Because if you are,that's laughable.

BUT...

My experiences with Mac's have not been good ones.
My personal experience of converting to PC was a blessing for me.
I could choose different operating systems,setups,upgrade,models & graphic cards & get work accordingly.
Whilst your experiences with Mac's have suited you perfectly.
You have gained what you wanted,where as I had to try something else.

I have been talking from my personal perspective.
& that cannot possibly be enough to prove my point.
So,I have been comparing with these posts,my friends,the local LAN gaming & Production expose.
Unfortunately none have the same passion or enthusiasm for Mac's or Apple that you do.
I have to make a personal judgment from this & say that if majority rules,& your in the minority...
That is why I was asking for more pro Mac posts from other users.Gain more opinions & strive to a better conclusion.

I find it very hard to believe your "facts" in that South African Mac Information link...
Why?
Perhaps because if it is such a majority percentage ( 80% ),there should at least be 2 in each of the studios I have had to deal with.In Johannesburg,Cape Town,Durban,etc.
I have not seen any & of course inquired about it,as I started from a Mac.
My return answer ( from the big cheese ) was a laugh...From a person that is 10 years my senior.
This from a man that used a Bolex 16mm film camera to do his Claymation pieces & advertisements when he was a small fry.

My experiences Vs yours are completely different.
That is why we come to separate conclusions,yes.

So as far as a simple to use device,you are correct in all regards to that.

I merely state:
*That it is a majority that use PC's;
*It is now my preferred preference;
*I could not get decent work using a Mac;
*I ( & many other students ) had to switch in order to find work & get a better understanding of the equipment;
*I prefer a freedom of options & tools now that I know they exist.
*My understanding of a "better" computer system will be that which is used by the majority.

I have also stated what my version of an idiot is.
I will not repeat myself ( because my quoting system is bust ).
Along with the fact that you threw a little temper tantrum yourself when I suggested that its "cool" look did not work for performance purposes.

So I guess we will always clash...


P.S.
Call me an idiot,but when I try to quote,I get error messages from LoveForum & can't do anything...
Any way around this?

[Miss hotty]

Sorry don't know not doing it with me

[Chimeros0]

Thanks anyway Miss Hotty...

Just to cover my bases...

Here is a list of links if anyone declares me blowing my horn:

[url]http://www.core77.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000668.html[/url]

[url]http://www.computing.net/mac/wwwboard/forum/10001.html[/url]

[url]http://www.our-picks.com/archives/2007/02/05/the-pc-vs-mac-ads-return-now-from-the-pcs-perspective/[/url]


My most favorite post from the last link:

# mike:

These fake ads are about as stupid as the Mac ads(maybe thats the point). The thing i hate about the Mac ads is that they insinuate that to anything creative in the digital world, you need a Mac. they’re trying to create this mentality that PC’s are boring machines with boring owners who push numbers all day long.

I’ve been making money as graphic artist and 3d animator for the last 12 years, and about 75% of the other artists I know use PC’s also. The same creative arts and music software that is available for Mac is also available for PC, except maybe “garageBand” — big deal. BTW, if you wanted to do 3d animation a few years back, PC was the only way to go…MACs totally sucked in that area.

Don’t believe the lies of Apple when they spread their misinformation about PC’s who’s main OS is dominated by Microsoft, who by BTW bailed Apple out back in 1997 when they were about to go tits up. If it weren’t for the ipod, Apple wouldn’t be as powerful as it is today, which is still nowhere near as dominant as PC’s are. Suck it.




My personal favorites from the last link ( if your crazy enough to read them ):

# nathancipher:

the point that everyone seems to overlook in the whole mac v pc debate is that they are essentially one and the same aside from the operating system now. mac was better in the 80s/early 90s for sure but the edge they had was lost. i will admit that their machines are quite aesthetically pleasing and they impress idiots like nobodies business but it’s really not worth the premium price for what it is. this is coming from a guy at work with a pc in front of him and a G5 to the right of him. i use both and in the end, they’re both about par for the course. they both SUCK ASS really. why cause both apple and microsuck have similar business strategies to lock you into their products. i will say that the CS2 suite crashes like a bitch in OSX. oh and the mac fanboys scare me. it’s like a creepy cult worshipping steve jobs.

# Gnat127:

Good luck finding cracked software for mac. That’s all I have to say about that.

# bananapeas:

lol hmm what macs cant do—>gaming!

plus to upgrade a mac you are stuck paying high premiums…i can build a faster pc then all macs on the market for $500…oh…how much was that mac….$2000 wow talk about getting burned…do you also buy the new ipod every year when it comes out because you want to be cool, have fun paying the extra $200 instead of just getting a regular mp3 player…but its ok, you have an ipod you are cool…………………………………………………………NOT

# errorplane:

“I love my Mac so much because it always works. It’s a quality product. It also runs Windows!”
-bigDooky

I’m glad you enjoy having to use two operating systems to do what you need to do. My pc works all the time and I only spent $600 dollars to build an amazing machine that never has a prob.

# Jack:

My boss is at the Apple store trying to get his new Mac laptop to work. They can’t figure out what’s wrong. Quality product.

I use a Mac at work and a PC at home. The machines are virtually identical in their reliability. I’ve had plenty of OSX lock-ups and crashes, despite what the Mac cult would like you to believe. And yeah, no viruses, but if Mac ever gets more than 5% of the market share, that will change. Bragging about having no viruses on your Mac is a little like a person on a desert island bragging about the lack of door-to-door salesmen. They are just computers. Get over yourselves.

The biggest difference is that I can buy pretty much whatever software I want for my PC.

So I’m assuming your an idiot. My mom gets viruses on her PC. If you think you know a little about how to use the internet or protect your pc you will never get viruses. Mac just equals idiot proff.

# Akis:

This Mac v PC is just silly, yes the videos are funny but what’s the point in arguing what’s better? My PC does what I want it to do, it doesn’t crash, and it cost much less than I would spend on a Mac, which is why I bought it, it might not look pretty but that doesn’t matter to me.

# MrDr Zack:

Mac blows. I run PC for gaming, and that’s about it. Linux and FreeBSD are where it’s at.

# Brady:

This is a play on stereotypes JUST LIKE THE MAC COMMERICALS. What is better, PC or Mac? Well that depends on personal preference more than anything. For example, maybe Macs dont crash as often as PCs, but Macs get ****ing laggy. I was recentlely using a MAC with 2 Gigs of ram that froze after opening 3 windows. Thats BS, and it would never happen with my PC…aw screw it, PCs are better!

# Donald:

I think Bill Gates bailed out apple when they were about to go bankrupt because he would have had no more ideas to rip off.

I guess it may have back fired with Vista though, seeing as it runs better on a mac.

Dunno, im middle of the road on this one

# Jack:

My boss is at the Apple store trying to get his new Mac laptop to work. They can’t figure out what’s wrong. Quality product.

I use a Mac at work and a PC at home. The machines are virtually identical in their reliability. I’ve had plenty of OSX lock-ups and crashes, despite what the Mac cult would like you to believe. And yeah, no viruses, but if Mac ever gets more than 5% of the market share, that will change. Bragging about having no viruses on your Mac is a little like a person on a desert island bragging about the lack of door-to-door salesmen. They are just computers. Get over yourselves.

The biggest difference is that I can buy pretty much whatever software I want for my PC.

# Brian:

Ironic, I can do all the video/audio related things on my pc……for half the price…oh yeah, and I can upgrade any and all hardware whenever I’d like. Did I mention the mounds and mounds of software??


# Offsprung:

Copied who? Anyone who knows anything knows bill and the 2daves copied the old fools from xerox.
And its not saying girls like pc or mac better, its saying they would rather date someone with a life, not a mac cultist geek who would rather hangout with a fellow geek.
As for better?
Lets see (if I remember correctly the timeline of the cultists opines)…
Macs are better (but lets use pcs ide)
Macs are better (but lets use pcs memory)
Macs are better (but lets use pcs cpu)
Macs are better (but lets use freebsd os)
So now you have some glitzy pc running freebsd with some pretty mac pics (gui) and the same “over”price tag?
Sounds a lot like “new” coke, if it is/was better why evolve into what a pc always was?

# Unknown Benevolence:

Good spoofs, though a little insubstantial. And (sorry to say), I agree with many other of the posters… I work with both PCs and Macs, and the PCs have it. Macs definitely have their up points, but they simply can’t out measure PCs right now. Maybe next go around…

# NJAZ:

why is it I am always bailing out MAC users? Why is it that supposed Windows users are crashing their systems twice a day? I always creatively “out-produce” MAC users, I am always explaining the 101 options I have with my PC that MAC users are oblivious to - because it didn’t come in their stupid iLife bundle. My Windows XP OS NEVER crashes, but my colleague who runs a top of the line MAC Pro has to restart his system REGULARLY due to system instability. To be fair I think he is among MAC users who believe they can push their system to the absolute limit and still efficiently run processes - which honestly seems to be about 90% of all MAC users I’ve met. Bottom line - I avoid working with MAC users because they are absolutely delusional when it comes to computing. I think MACS are fine, I use an older MAC Pro dual G5 with 8 Gig of RAM - the only problem I have is that a PC (windows) with one fast chip and a Gig of RAM performs EXACTLY the same way. Nice try MAC but at the end of the day you’re just pretty PC.

[Miss hotty]

It's ok don't worry about it

[Tiay]

Thanks again Lilwing...

OK Tiay,I get your point.

thank you!

You are a huge fan of Apple & Mac's,whilst I am not.

believe me, in comparison to people in my family, I am a mac-sceptic.

*Quote[honestly, i'm not trying to be pissy. But this does pretty much sum up what you've said. Which outlook strikes you as being most biased and prejudiced?]Quote*
Are you trying to say that your opinion of Mac's,Apple & PC's are not biased and prejudiced in any way?
Because if you are,that's laughable.

No, you are right, my outlook is not completely unbiased. I don't think there is such a thing as a completely unbiased unprejudiced outline to be found. I merely asked which sounds like the most prejudiced, which does not in any way imply that my outlook is therefore unbiased.

BUT...

woah. a big but.

My experiences with Mac's have not been good ones.
My personal experience of converting to PC was a blessing for me.
I could choose different operating systems,setups,upgrade,models & graphic cards & get work accordingly.
Whilst your experiences with Mac's have suited you perfectly.
You have gained what you wanted,where as I had to try something else.

yes! my experiences have almost been the complete opposite of yours. But I"M not the one telling you that you're wrong, and will eventually switch back to the Mac platform, because I realise that your experiences, requirements, and (i'm sick of saying this by now) preference is just different from mine, and this does not make your choice stupid, in fact, it makes it exactly the right choice for you.
All I wanted is for you to accept the same is true for me.

I have been talking from my personal perspective.
& that cannot possibly be enough to prove my point.
So,I have been comparing with these posts,my friends,the local LAN gaming & Production expose.
Unfortunately none have the same passion or enthusiasm for Mac's or Apple that you do.
I have to make a personal judgment from this & say that if majority rules,& your in the minority...
That is why I was asking for more pro Mac posts from other users.Gain more opinions & strive to a better conclusion.

heh, LAN gaming? of course they don't have macs!
Believe me, if I were to ask my friends, they all have macs. Those that have other platforms are always having problems with them.
It's no surprise though, apple wasn't in the South African market for 4 years, there's likely to be less people simply because of that. Apple does in general have a low market share, though the numbers are twice the world market share in the states.

However, this again would mean that Ferrari has nothing on Ford. When have people ever bought a car based on market share? When people argue about which product is "best", almost never is market share mentioned.

a quote from Gil Amelio:
"market share is important but it is also important how you define the market you are measuring your company or product against. Mercedes is only a small part of the auto industry but it is a giant in the luxury automobile market. The trick is defining your space correctly."

whether or not a company matters in the industry or a product is "good" almost never has much to do with market share. Also, when people compare windows to mac, they're comparing what is primarily a software company to a company that is one of 5 making hardware (Apple, IBM, Compaq, HP, Sun)

However, as i'm sure you're sick of me saying by now, if market share is something you value, then by all means go for it.

I find it very hard to believe your "facts" in that South African Mac Information link...
Why?
Perhaps because if it is such a majority percentage ( 80% ),there should at least be 2 in each of the studios I have had to deal with.In Johannesburg,Cape Town,Durban,etc.
I have not seen any & of course inquired about it,as I started from a Mac.
My return answer ( from the big cheese ) was a laugh...From a person that is 10 years my senior.
This from a man that used a Bolex 16mm film camera to do his Claymation pieces & advertisements when he was a small fry.

yeah, I dunno, they do seem to contradict each other. However, you mostly work with video media studios, right? Graphic design would be a different field.

My experiences Vs yours are completely different. That is why we come to separate conclusions,yes.

yeah, this is what i've been saying.

So as far as a simple to use device,you are correct in all regards to that.

I merely state:
*That it is a majority that use PC's;
*It is now my preferred preference;
*I could not get decent work using a Mac;
*I ( & many other students ) had to switch in order to find work & get a better understanding of the equipment;
*I prefer a freedom of options & tools now that I know they exist.
*My understanding of a "better" computer system will be that which is used by the majority.

well then, that's your definition. I have absolutely no problem with any of that- as long as you don't judge everyone else who has different definitions and experiences just because they're not the same as you.

I have also stated what my version of an idiot is.
I will not repeat myself ( because my quoting system is bust ).
Along with the fact that you threw a little temper tantrum yourself when I suggested that its "cool" look did not work for performance purposes.

odd, I honestly don't recall that... ahh, hang on.. I said "what's wrong with having something that looks nice? You're just jealous "
heh.. yeah, giant temper tantrum that was.
I even put a smiley to denote the jokeyness of it..

So I guess we will always clash...
P.S.
Call me an idiot,but when I try to quote,I get error messages from LoveForum & can't do anything...
Any way around this?

that's odd... Something wrong with LF, I bet. I couldn't post on this thread for a while I just kept getting a 404 error.

[Tiay]

jesus you write a lot. I'm going to walk the dog and then I have an appointment and my brother's coming back from france today and I have to move out of my room so I apologise in advance as I'll probably be gone all day.

[anachronistic]

chimeros, the quote problem could be due to your internet browser. what one are you using?

go to [url]www.firefox.com[/url] and download the latest version of firefox.