Manning up in my relationship?

[Prerequisite]

I see, I see.

I'm going to give it some time and use the indirect approach of getting her to express herself. For now, it still just seems like a one-sided relationship or the things she does/says is are out of pity to make herself not look bad in the end.

Currently, I'm not going to make the initiative to call/contact her for awhile (a few days), to see what extent she goes to in order to contact me herself. More so a little test of the one-sided feeling of the relationship. If she doesn't for awhile, I will end up seeing her next week when school resumes. Where I will continue to just be nonchalant. If it continues after a week or so, I'm going to tell her to meet me at a restaurant, and express what my thoughts have been, and in the end, may end the relationship there. But, if she does contact me, I'm going to go the method of keeping busy (which I actually am everyday) so that she'll want to keep the contact going or chase me in so many words. But, I guess for now, time is key.

But eh, it's my first relationship, you live and you learn. I won't have any regrets if I/we do decide the relationship has to end, because it allowed me to acquire experience for my next relationship (through her and this forum).

[IndiReloaded]

I think you are differentiating between "knowing" and "achieving". Yes, should always be open to achieving the right outcome for self and others. Knowing the best outcome means seeing beyond the immediate situation, which direction the situation should be taken for the posibility of this best outcome to be achievable. That's also dominance.

Actually, I meant exactly what I said. Someone who *knows* what is best for another person, without trying to achieve consensus & listening to other input, is a control freak. And asking for trouble, besides. And closing themselves off to learning from another person. B/c, sometimes, someone else might actually know better than you if you give them the chance to state their case.

Do you know about 'Johari Windows', Mish? If not, google it. Basically the lesson is 'you don't know what you don't know & we rely on others to tell us'. Controlling behaviour limits this learning possibility, just be careful you don't devolve into it. Your posts, and what you've posted before about things suggest you have that potential. We all do, but you need to learn when it is working against you.

This comes down to negotiation, compromise, I do this, but next time you do that, is me doing this equal to you doing that? It's win / loose and always a tiring negotiation.

All relationship involve negotiation, Mish. Constantly. Tho smart ones don't negotiate over every little thing, there are accepted areas of 'expertise' as I already mentioned. But everything should be open to negotiation, even 'set' areas, otherwise you run the risk of a partner feeling disempowered without any mechanism to vent their concerns. Except for 'dealbreakers', flexible >> fixed in a relationship.

Fundamentaly these relationships are a lot more prone to failure than the standard dominant / submissive roles where both partners are happy with their roles in the relationship and don't have to constantly bicker of who takes charge of what.

I'm not sure I agree. I know an awful lot of dominant/dominant couples & few dominant/submissives. I think the key point is they are happy w/their role whatever that is & their attitude towards it. The alpha males I know definitely want the alpha female. But their skill sets are mutually compatible, not necessarily overlapping, if that makes any sense. Doctor/doctor runs into more problems than doctor/lawyer or accountant/teacher.

For example, my last fling earned a lot more than me, she looked after herself, she was an independent strong woman who was totally submissive and looking for a strong lead.

Are you comfortable with giving us her comments as to the reasons for your breakup? Not prying, say no if not, I just wonder if you might be missing something from that window I mentioned. Did the phrase 'you're being a stubborn xxx' (or some equivalent) cross her lips? Again, just making an educated guess, could be totally wrong here.

[IndiReloaded]

But eh, it's my first relationship, you live and you learn. I won't have any regrets if I/we do decide the relationship has to end, because it allowed me to acquire experience for my next relationship (through her and this forum).

This is a nice, balanced approach to things, Perq.

[Mish]

Mish, no offense, but you sound like a nightmare for a female with an IQ above 100.

Maybe a nightmare for you Vash. Yes, I would be a nightmare for you. You're a dominant person, but you'd never find a way to dominate me. Hence back to what I was saying before. We wouldn't work out you and I, you need a submissive person and that's not me

Way too controlling.... it reminds me of your car radio incident.

Just so everybody's clear about the car radio incident that Vash is blowing out of proportion.

Story (summarized version)

Me and my ex had a few arguments, then all of sudden she asked me to take her and her mum to her granma's house. I politely agreed. So we are on the way to her granma's, 1 hour drive in the rain, she's ignoring me. I try to talk to her, she continues to ignore me. She switches on the radio so she can can safely ignore what I'm saying. I pick up on it. I look at her and ask her politely to switch it off. No reaction. I dismiss it. We arrive to her granma's house. I ask her, why did you switch on the car radio when I was talking to you, why didn't you switch it off when I asked you to? She explodes, "You have no right to ever tell me what to do".

We beak up the same day and I never look back.

Now people, tell me. Was I in the wrong to do and say what I did? Was I as Vash puts it "Way too controlling"?

Because Vash seems to think I was 100% wrong and this is the complete evidence of me being a gigantic control freak.

[vashti]

It wasn't just me who thought you were being controlling, and the way you describe it here is much "cleaner" than the original version, but yeah, whatever. I'm pretty sure misombra woud remember that story differently, too.

BTW - my husband isn't submissive.

[Mish]

It wasn't just me who thought you were being controlling, and the way you describe it here is much "cleaner" than the original version, but yeah, whatever. I'm pretty sure misombra woud remember that story differently, too.

Miso? She ussually agrees with everything you say. I know you share a special connection and she always comes to your aid whenever you need it. That special connection the two of you share though, has nothing to do with what actually happened between me and my ex. The summary is up there.

BTW - my husband isn't submissive.

The way you describe it here is much "cleaner" than the original version

[vashti]

Ha! I don't discuss my husband in any detail on these boards, and if misombra agrees with me, it's because we are right.

[Mish]

Do you know about 'Johari Windows', Mish? If not, google it.

Sounds interesting, I'll read up on it.

All relationship involve negotiation, Mish. Constantly. Tho smart ones don't negotiate over every little thing

Exactly. There's an "acceptable" level of negotiation in the relationships. What happens when there are two dominants is that acceptable level is always breached. It's breached for a reason, that reason is people are the way they are. You can't change a dominant person (dominant by nature) into a submissive one (And vice versa). You can't change people from being who they are. A dominant person will resent being submissive, a submissive person will resent being dominant. So you can negotiate and compromise all you like, but two people of this same "type" will make a horrible couple. This is because it comes back to relationship becoming a constant win / loose instead of win / win like it should be.

There's some interesting material on this in Covey's 7 habit book when he talks about win / win.

I'm not sure I agree. I know an awful lot of dominant/dominant couples & few dominant/submissives. I think the key point is they are happy w/their role whatever that is & their attitude towards it. The alpha males I know definitely want the alpha female. But their skill sets are mutually compatible, not necessarily overlapping, if that makes any sense. Doctor/doctor runs into more problems than doctor/lawyer or accountant/teacher.

I think we might have different interpretations of what is dominant and what is submissive Indi. A submissive person is not a push over. A submissive person is the one who has a better capacity to understand, to nurture and to follow. For example, you may think of yourself as dominant person, but from my experience with you I would say you are very submissive. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not a curse, being submissive gives a lot of benefits that being dominant doesn't have.

Are you comfortable with giving us her comments as to the reasons for your breakup? Not prying, say no if not, I just wonder if you might be missing something from that window I mentioned. Did the phrase 'you're being a stubborn xxx' (or some equivalent) cross her lips? Again, just making an educated guess, could be totally wrong here.

Nothing like that ever crossed her lips. I initiated break up, because I saw that weren't compatible together. Had nothing to do with her being submissive and me being dominant, that part worked out well for us. There were just other personality mismatches that made us not a very good match. As you say, noone's fault. The world is full of possibilities and I don't want to settle for someone who's not a good match for me.

[vashti]

I initiated break up, because I saw that weren't compatible together. .

Are you talking about the girlfriend that had the nerve to turn on your radio without asking permission? Because for some reason I am remembering the break up a little differently...

[Mish]

Are you talking about the girlfriend that had the nerve to turn on your radio without asking permission? Because for some reason I am remembering the break up a little differently...

No, I was talking about the fling I had after her. The one that Indi asked me about.

[misombra]

you're not a control freak mish. you just have to have everything your way and everyone has to do what you say.

[Mish]

you're not a control freak mish. you just have to have everything your way and everyone has to do what you say.

Funny how you and Vash are the only ones who see me that way

Have you ever wondered why that is so by the way?

[misombra]

no, others think so too. you just focus on us because you have some kind of anger with us.

maybe we bring up stuff you don't want to think about. violent reactions and all that.

if it don't apply, then let it fly.

[vashti]

Maybe because we are the only ones here who read the posts you made on the other forum?

[misombra]

aaaaaaaaaaajaja that's right!

yeah mish, we're the only ones with the real scoop.

mish's girlfriend dumped him because he's such a control freak.