Why "we" instead of "you"?

[IndiReloaded]

Conquer them with kindness? ...Nevermind, its your divorce. Your pride will be the end of it.

[HeartIsAching]

Hate to say it, but I think Indi's right on target.

What's better, to be right, to "win", or to work it out? By working it out, I DON'T mean caving in. You can win better by not losing.

[Incognito]

I've put my nuts on the ole wood block before only to have the hammer drop anyway. Not doing it anymore. That isn't to say that I didn't agree with the rest of what you said, because I did. I definitely used the wrong words when I answered, as you stated. You need to not be so negative just because someone didn't take [all] of your advice. Not everyone is going to respond "Yes maam, thank you maam, may I please have another maam...".

[Incognito]

Hate to say it, but I think Indi's right on target.

What's better, to be right, to "win", or to work it out? By working it out, I DON'T mean caving in. You can win better by not losing.

Whoops, missed your post ole buddy. Going back to the simple conversation that took place there wasn't a right and wrong there, although I did use the wrong wording. I wouldn't prostrate myself in the exaggerated way that Indi proposed though. I'd definitely word the rest of my response differently though, if I could, but my time machine is broken.

[misombra]

Ok LF people. This is hot off the press. My daughter just went to my mom's house, apparently without saying bye to the wife (I was outside talking to.my mom, not inside). Anyway, the wife asks where she is (which is probably the second or third sentence we've spoken to each other since Saturday). I tell her that she left already and surprisedly ask "Why she didn't say bye?". All I get is an eye roll, a quick "no", some mumbling under her breath and the door slamming as she goes into the bedroom. I don't flinch and add some wood to the fireplace.

She returns about a minute later and blurts "So are we going to talk or are you just going to not say anything?". I say "Yeah we can talk. Exactly what do you want to talk about?". She looks at me, says "oh I guess there isn't anything to talk about" and marches downstairs. This is what I have to deal with....

you're an asshole. you feed her anger, because you're such an asshole.

[HeartIsAching]

See, that's not the point. "Winning" or "Losing" shouldn't be in the equation. You could have phrased it so that she'd be willing to talk...

However you're right, there was little to do with that, and you don't have a time machine. I personally think if you're both willing to work at it (and this is key) but you both really do have to be willing to try.

IDK man... if she's not willing to try, you're better off cutting and running now. If she is, and you are you might have a shot.

You're a better man than me, Charlie Brown. I'd have run long ago.

[Incognito]

you're an asshole. you feed her anger, because you're such an asshole.

Thats funny, I don't remember ordering unsloicited, negative, bitchiness. You have the wrong house, please try next door.

[Incognito]

See, that's not the point. "Winning" or "Losing" shouldn't be in the equation. You could have phrased it so that she'd be willing to talk...

However you're right, there was little to do with that, and you don't have a time machine. I personally think if you're both willing to work at it (and this is key) but you both really do have to be willing to try.

IDK man... if she's not willing to try, you're better off cutting and running now. If she is, and you are you might have a shot.

You're a better man than me, Charlie Brown. I'd have run long ago.

Thanks HIA. Yeah we ended up talking, and although she kind of has a mindset that she is doing me a favor by trying the counseling, she says she will do it and try to change her bad habits. There was a threat to break my finger, figuratively I hope, if I kept pointing at her faults though. I bit my tongue, hard, but we somehow got our points across and ended the conversation in mild disagreement. We'll see what happens during counseling.

[IndiReloaded]

I've put my nuts on the ole wood block before only to have the hammer drop anyway. Not doing it anymore. That isn't to say that I didn't agree with the rest of what you said, because I did. I definitely used the wrong words when I answered, as you stated. You need to not be so negative just because someone didn't take [all] of your advice. Not everyone is going to respond "Yes maam, thank you maam, may I please have another maam...".

Thats funny, I don't remember ordering unsloicited, negative, bitchiness. You have the wrong house, please try next door.

I can see why you have the problems you do. Oh well, mbe HIA will have better luck.

[Incognito]

Ok Indi. Maybe HIA can do a better job of saying what needs to be said. I doubt that he will post in an emotional and negative manner as misombra did. Really, I'm totally unsure why you even posted my answer to her quote as though she gave some sort of excellent advice that I shrugged off. She was being a bitch, plain and simple, which was uncalled for and not helpful. I've told her before, and I'll tell her again if she is reading this, "If you have that much of a problem with what you're reading then don't post about it.". It really is that simple. It would have been different if I would have addressed her personally in a negative way or disregarded some top notch advice. Neither happened. She popped in, as she tends to do, without anything useful to say and starts with the negativity.

[searock]

It doesn't matter which tone one uses to give you the same advice, you won't listen to it anyway. So why bother not being a bitch about it, it's useless either way. JMO.

[Boisdevie]

From what's been said it does not sound as though she is committed to counselling. Perhaps she feels that she has no problems to deal with.
I think your marriage is not worth saving. Why not en I say thsave the money on counselling and put it towards the divorce settlement? And I"m not being flippant that

[Wakeup]

Ok Indi. Maybe HIA can do a better job of saying what needs to be said. I doubt that he will post in an emotional and negative manner as misombra did. Really, I'm totally unsure why you even posted my answer to her quote as though she gave some sort of excellent advice that I shrugged off. She was being a bitch, plain and simple, which was uncalled for and not helpful. I've told her before, and I'll tell her again if she is reading this, "If you have that much of a problem with what you're reading then don't post about it.". It really is that simple. It would have been different if I would have addressed her personally in a negative way or disregarded some top notch advice. Neither happened. She popped in, as she tends to do, without anything useful to say and starts with the negativity.

Yes, negative vibes that include zero advice aren't what you need right now.. They just put you on agressive mode and not much more.

Well, to me it's obvious that you are feeling brow-beaten from being subjected to your wife's negativity and her very, very, lack of any real affection. I suspect she's feeling somewhat similar.

Every couple has disagreements but if those disagreements go unresolved (which means they will keep re-surfacing) and there isn't a counter balance of good,nurturing, loving actions then you end up the way you and your wife have ended up, Incognito.

I suggest you try your best to undig your heels and drop the resentment so that you go in with an open mind, a mind that is wanting things to work out and not so much with a mind that wants his wife to be the focus of chastisment for her past actions while you're in your sessions. The resentment you feel is obvious. We haven't heared her side of things so I base my opinon only on what you've shared. Added: Its easy to see why she is never primed for sex. Sexy starts in a woman's mind and her mind is cluttered with anger, resentment, control issues and frustration from not being able to control you to be the loving guy she wants as well. Hopefully, you'll be able to help her and she you to get your minds in a clearer state. It's in your own best interests to help her with that so that you get the loving you so are lacking.

This is not all you, it's not all her either.. it's the two of you and how you've become accustomed to disrespecting one another and never disfusing the ill feelings that disrespect conjurs up by countering it with loving actions to one another. There are bad habits that may or may not be able to be over-come. Only time will tell and both you being able to forgive the past and are able to garner the communication tools you both need to make this union a happy and lovingly reciprocal one.

I suggest you vacate this thread now and concentrate on how you'll be using "I" statements to voice how you feel rather that "you" statements that will just make her angrier and therefor unable to see her own faults.

You might want to point her to this very informative link that I got from HIA in another thread.. It will help her to voice how she is feeling without getting you all defensive and closed off. [url]http://www.healthyliving.org/hpc/Articles/IStatements.html[/url]

When you print it out and show her be enthusiastic about what you discovered and tell her you think it will help you both during your sessions if you both can adapt that way of communicating.
JMO

[misombra]

Ok Indi. Maybe HIA can do a better job of saying what needs to be said. I doubt that he will post in an emotional and negative manner as misombra did. Really, I'm totally unsure why you even posted my answer to her quote as though she gave some sort of excellent advice that I shrugged off. She was being a bitch, plain and simple, which was uncalled for and not helpful. I've told her before, and I'll tell her again if she is reading this, "If you have that much of a problem with what you're reading then don't post about it.". It really is that simple. It would have been different if I would have addressed her personally in a negative way or disregarded some top notch advice. Neither happened. She popped in, as she tends to do, without anything useful to say and starts with the negativity.

you cannot stop me from posting. and i still think you're an asshole. with each an every post you go right to asshole mode. i think you definitely have an anger problem. and this is definitely a we problem. you're in denial if you don't see it. don't like my advice then you can put me on ignore and i can call you an asshole behind your back.

[misombra]

Yes, negative vibes that include zero advice aren't what you need right now.. They just put you on agressive mode and not much more.

way to go after that blowjob he was offering lol.