Prenup - I prepare for marriage, he prepares for divorce

[Wakeup]

That's a fallacious argument, because courts in the U.S. have been historically biased against men in granting custody.

Men have been historically not wanting full custody just as much.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

M3rry, you're crazy(like all Filipina chicks), and I suspect on some level you are marrying for money or it plays a large part in your attraction. I'm also curious as to exactly what you have to lose should things go south. Even if you do have his children and forgo career opportunities, how are you entitled to assets he had prior to meeting you?

[HDBadger]

Men have been historically not wanting full custody just as much.

Not true. Judges have historically wielded broad discretion about who they could grant custody rights. Even if a husband desperately wanted the kids, the woman far more frequently than not got them.

Here's an article that gets into some of the changes in the antiquated divorce laws. This doesn't get into division of property. What it does get into is alimony.

The courts are no longer viewing being a homemaker in a marriage as a free meal ticket after divorce. Women are being held responsible for their own financial futures, which should please both men and women everywhere.

http://betterafter50.com/2012/06/divorce-law-changes-in-ma-women-beware/

[BackUpOrGetStng]

What gets me about divorce in the US is the alimony. Child support of course, but why the **** should anyone have to pay someone else for doing nothing?

[Wakeup]

Not true. Judges have historically wielded broad discretion about who they could grant custody rights. Even if a husband desperately wanted the kids, the woman far more frequently than not got them.

Not true. Most men have never requested full custody and when asked, and there has been no fear of abuse or neglect and the mother has not disputed the request for 50/50 custodial rights, it is granted.

Here's a suggestion. When I gave up my job to look after our daughter, my husband contributed to my Old Age Pension Plan so that I'd have something coming in in my old age... Just like most good employers do. Maybe woman should ask for that little bit of financial aid when they are doing whats best for their family in the long run and losing out on raises, promotions, advancement, education in the field for their betterment of their union and all are in agreement that she should forsake outside-the-home advancement that would have keept her on wage par with her husband had she not stopped working.

Here's an article that gets into some of the changes in the antiquated divorce laws. This doesn't get into division of property. What it does get into is alimony.

We are'nt talking about alimony, we are talking about custody.

The courts are no longer viewing being a homemaker in a marriage as a free meal ticket after divorce.

And that is why m3erry should get her own lawyer to make sure that she is looked after propertly if he wants her to stay home and raise the children and oversee the business of the household.

Women are being held responsible for their own financial futures,

Which is fine now that we are permitted to work in the high paying jobs that at one time only MEN could hold. We are ALMOST but not at equal pay for equal work so it makes sense that we should certainly make sure that we have a way to a means should the union dissolve.... That is where merry's pre-nup negotion comes into being in her own best interests and if she were smart, she'd welcome one rather then balk at one.

which should please both men and women everywhere.

Equality means both ways, yes.

[Brent29]

Sign it. If you had anything to lose, wouldn't you want to protect yourself?
And remember- it will never be used unless you divorce. So, if you're planning on not divorcing, why are you worrying about it?

Marriage is a business.

There is nothing to fear. You love him and you are ready to marry him, that is what matter most. I don't really blame your man, i think he is doing that because of his experience with his Mom. Don't see it as a big deal. Be determined to make your marriage work and it will not end in divorce. Don't loose your man because of this issue, real men are hard to come by.

While love is a misunderstanding between two fools.

[Rowen]

Thank you Rowen... The biggest for me to lose is our marriage, and our family intact. If I sign it, it's like signing to a leeway that this might happen and I do not share this value so I'm contemplating now of just going away and maybe I'll have another shot of marriage with a man who shares more my values...

Very well, you need to do what you feel you need to. However, regardless of whether or not you sign, when that ring goes on the finger, you're not just saying yes to a question. You're saying yes to the fact that it may very well end in a messy fashion. You're taking a risk, prenup or no prenup.

Marriage is a business.

When it's between two people? No. When it fails? Yes. There's a difference, and if this OP loves him, she'll go through with this even if it is important to her spouse. It's not that he doesn't trust her. It's that he's trying to be sensible. Perhaps, if more people had their heads screwed on straight, there would be a little more sensibility in this world.

[AnErin]

I do not know French laws concerning divorce. If they are anything like USA laws, a pre-nup might not mean much in divorce.

Plus, how do they handle assets (in whatever jurisdiction) that are accumulated during the marriage? If this guy is already wealthy enough to worry about losing assets, he very well may have more by the time divorce comes up.

The thing men and women have in common - they both believe they "got the shaft" after divorce.
One never knows how it will go except in the case of amicable divorces (where the parties do their own and agree on terms) but when people start getting greedy and hateful, things go haywire.

I would say it might be best to NOT marry honestly. It sounds like he is already contemplating failure. It would be a lousy marriage at best. The divorce would be what we call "the shit hitting the fan".
I don't know, the whole "pre-nup" issue in general just smells like something one stepped in, and they don't like the smell of it.

[smackie9]

On the flip side - my wife and I have only one bank account: joint. Money goes in, money goes out. We don't pay attention to who contributes more, we just pay bills. She manages our funds. When I want to make a large-ish purchase, I call he rand ask if we can afford it. If she says 'no', then it's "Ok, thanks". Usually she says yes.

We he or I don't ask if "we" can afford it. If he wants to dump $3500 into a suspension for his 68 GM pickup, he will spend it. It is his money to spend it anyway he wants. Just like if I purchase 500 bucks on a pair of shoes...if I have money of my own to buy it, I buy it. His dept is his, my dept is mine. We never argue about money. I get mad at him when he wants to be the big cat and pay for the new roof on the house...I expect to pay for half of it. Just like when we go out, we alternate who's turn it is to pick up the bill, same thing at the beer store....if I'm in the line ahead of him I will pay for his beer too lol. I'm such a dude sometime lol.

[dickriculous]

I see the high rate of divorce as evidence enough

The divorce rate is not evidence of anything relevant to your situation - the divorce rate is very high regardless of whether or not it involves a prenuptial agreement.

if it is an option, then people will take it

If that were true then why doesn't this same argument hold up in any other context? And why is the divorce rate so high regardless of whether or not the marriage includes a prenuptial agreement?

Besides, divorce is an option with or without a prenup, and even if that weren't the case why the **** would you NOT want him to have the option? Do you think marriage should be a prison sentence? Are you trying to use it as a tool with which to entrap him? If he stays with you it should be because he wants to stay with you, not because he doesn't trust the legal system not to **** this up if things don't work out, and thus he sticks round as a result of stockholm syndrome.

[HDBadger]

Here is some census data about child custody, since people on this website don't seem very interested in, you know, facts.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-240.pdf

The highlights (lowlights for men):
-Women are granted custody over 80% of the time
-Even for the few fathers granted custody, they are about 20% less likely to receive child support than women
-For the even fewer fathers who receive child support, they receive less $$$, on average, than women do
-The amount awarded for child custody is also extraordinarily biased against men, with women receiving over 90% of the total child support awarded

Couple those disturbing statistics with the fact that women file for divorce between 60% and 70% of the time, and the fact that division of property rights and alimony laws are still biased in favor of women --- though those laws are slowly changing --- and it's easy to see why the OP's man wants a prenup.

He's right. She should sign it.

[Wakeup]

Women are granted custody over 80% of the time

Out of the 80% of the time, can you tell us how many men actually attempted to gain full custody but failed?

For the even fewer fathers who receive child support, they receive less $$$, on average, than women do

That's because on average, women make less then men (even when doing the same job) and child support is based on monthly income.

I can go on to show that statistics can be skewed to make a persons point. Unless you can compare the above two questions to what you've unearthed, the bias as to the way you want your finding skewed is showing.

And no, I didn't read the link for that very reason. If in your "find" those questions are answered in comparison, let me know.

[HeartIsAching]

Out of the 80% of the time, can you tell us how many men actually attempted to gain full custody but failed?

I didn't even try. I talked to a lawyer and he said "Forget it. I won't waste your money."

[vashti]

I didn't even try. I talked to a lawyer and he said "Forget it. I won't waste your money."

I don't know how it is anywhere else in the country, but in virtually every single case I've heard, it is likewise impossible for a woman to get full custody (unless the father abandons the kids). Most courts recognize it is in a child's best interest to have BOTH parents involved in their life. A parent has to be pretty much Satan to have their custody revoked.

What is the overwhelming "norm" is that parents have shared custody, with the mother having primary PHYSICAL custody.

[smackie9]

It's the norm here in Canada, both parents share custody, child spends half the time at one parent's the half the time at the other. Those are the days gone by, with the father getting alternating weekends or just weekends with the mother having the kids most of the time.