flowers from a friend - help!!

[indigosoul]

You know your husband. What you know may or may not be enough to work it out. You don't know your friend... So, at base and at the very best, what you've got is a known quantity on one hand; and an unknown quantity on the other. I'd give that some VERY long thought.

Opportunistic, perhaps. But not very caring. Of course, since you yourself aren't sure what he means by this behavior, everything across the board is just a guess. So, there you are, again, trying to make a judgment on an unknown quantity.

What does all this suppression avail you and why are you employing it as a coping tactic? It does little to get you to an outcome in either direction and much to prevent outcomes in any direction. I'm reminded of a deer...

Who's to say whether they aren't both knowingly manipulating you in an effort to fulfill that fantasy? Pinned (like the deer) on the dilemma they represent as you now are, it might seem to them an easy thing to accomplish.

FWIW

Worth plenty W. Again, thanks, I am definitely thinking about all this. I certainly was aware of the "fantasy" potential of whatever I feel for my friend. Think its highly likely, actually. I know (of course!) that ppl only show the face that best suits them in a given situation. But, more importantly, I do know that in the absence of data (such as my friends suitability as a mate), one tends to fill in the gaps from our own desires rather than reality... My point in raising the issue (w/my husband) is not that I'd like to "get it on" w/our friend, but that it says how incredibly emotionally starved (i.e. desperate, lets be honest!) I am to even be thinking about it. Hello... is this a wake up call?!? His response has been one for me, for sure.

The deer-thing is a good point. I feel like this actually. The suppression is my response to not feeling I am able to express myself in my marriage. My husband is very uncomfortable w/strong displays of emotion. Very logical/controlled which is good for somethings and not others. I'm not naturally like this, but i've had to adapt in order to be "heard", understand? I have allowed, I know, myself to be neg'vly reinforced on this (be less emotional). And I'm only finally coming to realize why (which I'll keep b/t me & my navel). I am in conflict b/c this is not who I am at my core and I've grown enough in myself the past several years that I am rebelling against this as the only way. Which has caused him to pull away, neglect, etc. etc. Again, counselling to try and work out these issues. And yes, before it gets said, I know that this will only take us so far. That ultimately it comes to a decision of core values and non-negotiable needs that are either compatible or not.

The last point about both trying to manipulate me has crossed my mind and other variants of this. All I can say is that I wouldn't allow it b/c it's not ME. And that, eventually, you have to take a leap of faith in everything. I will be asking my friend his take on this and what he's been doing. Unless I've grossly miscalc'd I think I'll be able to distill some truth out. Confused, yes, but not often stupid. If I'm wrong and get burned w/this, well, then an important life lesson learned, I guess, and on to the next one. One thing I refuse to let happen is for me to get bitter about any of this. Life is still life, in all its messed up, beautiful, ugly, crazy glory.

[Only-virgins]

Yea... but I'm a real die-hard for the "giving it all ya got", you know? You're a smart fellow, I know, so maybe you'll relate when I say that I take my marriage problems as a real personal failure...not smart enough, not trying enough, that sort of thing.
Am thinking that I need to maybe stick it out w/the counselling for at least another 6 months, or a year or so, and see what happens.

Try as long as you want...just make sure your not kidding yourself. If its meant to end then its meant to end. A failed relationship is not always anyones fault. It sound like you gave it all you got all-ready to me.



At the end I only get the feeling that if you keep this up you will be kidding yourself. All these people on here giving you all this great ardvice ...well..thats fine..but do you see your self with your current husband staying longer and how do you feel about that is the only answer you should be asking yourself. Normal I would say the kids come first but you did specify that the kid would be fine. Simply ask yourself ...."Am I happy here"...if the answer is no then you can try all you want but the relationship will end and its not your fault.

[indigosoul]

At the end I only get the feeling that if you keep this up you will be kidding yourself. All these people on here giving you all this great ardvice ...well..thats fine..but do you see your self with your current husband staying longer and how do you feel about that is the only answer you should be asking yourself. Normal I would say the kids come first but you did specify that the kid would be fine. Simply ask yourself ...."Am I happy here"...if the answer is no then you can try all you want but the relationship will end and its not your fault.

Thanks OV. You're right. Except for the part that it won't be my fault. Of course it would be. Who's else would it be? Point is, i can deal w/that if it comes to it. Anyway, fault and guilt are highly overrated... usually best used for manipulation purposes for the uninitiated.

[Only-virgins]

Thanks OV. You're right. Except for the part that it won't be my fault. Of course it would be. Who's else would it be? Point is, i can deal w/that if it comes to it. Anyway, fault and guilt are highly overrated... usually best used for manipulation purposes for the uninitiated.

Why would it be your fault? First of all it sounds like your husband would be more at fault with his little theatre experience option he would like. Remember....you have to fail something to succeed at another thing. Sounds like you all-ready succeeded at being a mother and a person who actually cares. You sound like you are giving it alot of effort...I was thought that if you give it all you got and all your effort then the failure is actually a success with out the right goal reached...that might make little sense but in a way it does.

[indigosoul]

affectionate or romantic sentiments, they were directed towards your friend in your posts, not towards your husband. That's saying something in my ears, and it's very blatant. The heart is a very important thing... it's definitely worth listening to.

My advice would be to call out to yourself in this situation. Imagine someone else posted this, and you're an outsider looking in (assuming you weren't in it yourself). What would you say?

I'd say, get on w/it girl. Use that brain you say you got and use it for yourself this time. Life is too short to sacrifice longterm happiness. Either find it, create it yourself, or perhaps a little of both. That inner voice KNOWS in most.


The heart/soul IS important, and it may be that my friend is the one who would understand it. Or not. But I can't be what I would want w/him (or anyone else for that matter) until I've finally figured out what I want and am for myself. I'm getting there, but I think it would be a mistake to simply transfer my current psyche from one partner to the next. The concept of "trading up", as it was phrased (by W, I think), or even "trading within" doesn't sit well w/me. This would only lead to a different set of problems, I think.

Thanks for your email address. I'll come back occasionally to see how things are. You can email me (I'll send you it). And i think a PayPal donat'n to the forum would also be in order. But i really think its about time for me to stop being a deer and become a tiger again. I quoted this once before (for OV I think) but its a good one: Take all, for it WILL all be taken back in time. The universe always comes to collect its cut.

[whaywardj]

Indi: All sounds to me like a perfectly reasonable and healthy response to the circumstances. Except the part about your hubby not getting (or caring?) that your feelings for your friend were also an expression of your wish to be closer to him in the marriage. But then, that's his problem. Carry on.

[nomas]

This is late, I know, but I barely had the time to read through the entire thread up to this point:

Nevertheless...judging from my initial feel to your initial post:

Here's how I see it in black and white:

You have a nuclear family. You've got non-minor problems with your hubby. You can basically "suppress" the problems.

You've got a friend you're developing or rekindling romantic feelings for. His behavior is starting to make you wonder if he's feeling the romantic attraction as well.

You spoke to your husband and he saw it as a very simple "you're bored with things and you can sleep with him if you'd like"...then added "and can I watch"..

This bothered you and made you wonder "what the heck is my husband thinking?"...

These are the facts as far as I gathered them.

Now:

Speculation on your husband: You also mentioned later that he was a hardcore atheist. H'e probably not tied to any religiously-derived moral values. So I'm thinking he's ultra liberal and is genuinely okay with your sexual freedom..and him watching is just for his own entertainment...kind of like a swinger.

Obviously you ARE tied down by your moral values..regardless of their origins. You think this is wrong because it's simply immoral. This has furthermore turned you off toward your husband.

I think so far I've just stated more facts gathered by the circumstancial evidence..

The biggest issue, I guess, is your internal struggle: I see a possibility with this friend..possibly the opportunity to be happily ever after (of course, not to say you're this idealistic..but I'm putting things in the simplest terms..).

One of your biggest concerns is your child. Here I'm with most people. It is NOT better for a child to live in a nuclear family with his biological parents simply because this is considered "ideal". It's only ideal if everyone is happy in this situation. Over all, as long as the child gets love, education, discipline,..etc..s/he will grow up just fine. That's what is truly important..not simply having warm bodies living under the same roof.

You still have the issue of uncertainty as to what to do..mainly because it's still speculation that "friend" actually has romantic feelings for you...although we all know that odds are he does.

Here's what I think: Quit guessing. Go out and as what you will. Out of both, your huband and the friend. If there is anything you're not sure about, ask. Communication. It's especially easier since generally men's psychology is more straight forward. We don't make you guess our feelings. Usually a straight up question will yield a straigh up answer.

I think this was suggested as well..regardless of your friend..the question of whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave it remains only within your own wants and needs. This was covered by everyone else pretty extensively, I won't repeat it.

So I guess my biggest contribution is just that: Any questions you have..go out and ask them directly and without guessing games.

Good luck.

[whaywardj]

Indi: Just by way of clarification, I meant "trading up" in the vernacular. I DIDN'T mean to trade one thing for something else. Maybe I should have used the word "transform" instead. I, generally, believe it's better (and often easier!) to work with what you have to transform it into something greater ('trade up') than it is to try fix anything by switching one thing for another...which, in the vernacular, would be 'trade out', I imagine. Assuming what you have CAN be worked with, of course!

[indigosoul]

So, here's my delicate dance update:

My husband has decided to bail last minute on this trip we are taking, which was to include a visit w/our friend. He told me this the same day I found out (& told him!) that I had managed to arrange a very important business meeting I was hoping for (the trip is part business for me). This left me scrambling to change our travel plans, which I've now done.

So now it seems I'll be visiting my friend alone for a couple of days, as the plan was to stay w/him for part of the trip. I had planned on having a private, frank conversation w/him about everything, but w/the buffer of my family present to smooth out any overtly emotional stuff.

I could, of course, simply not visit w/him. This would be a virtual scream, however, that something is wrong since we ALWAYS visit each other when in town. We are also at a meeting together, with the logical extension of a visit immediately afterward.

Now I'm wondering if I should still do this. Am I setting myself up for a bad scene here? 2-3 days alone w/someone you care about is a long time if things get emotional or awkward... Run away or suck it up?!

Am I being sensible, or just chickening out? I am quite aware of the implications of the "buffer zone" I was setting up... (cluck, cluck..)

[shh!]

(slapping my own forehead) AAAhhhhh!! Your husband is such a dope, indigo! (Or perhaps he really isn't as interested in "watching" as he thought he was.) I guess your moment of truth is very near. I hope you have made some decisions about which path you will choose. I guess you will be talking to your friend about your situation, won't you? He may actually throw the whole situation into another direction.

[indigosoul]

(slapping my own forehead) AAAhhhhh!! Your husband is such a dope, indigo! (Or perhaps he really isn't as interested in "watching" as he thought he was.) I guess your moment of truth is very near. I hope you have made some decisions about which path you will choose. I guess you will be talking to your friend about your situation, won't you? He may actually throw the whole situation into another direction.

"Or perhaps he really isn't as interested in "watching" as he thought he was."

C'mon, Shh! I'm NOT gonna DO anything w/him on this trip. I'm not some hormonal 18 year old.

Do you think I'm being naive?? I can't see how I CAN'T have this talk w/him... it's out there now, w/having talked to my husband about everything. He still says it's my problem to sort out, so I guess I have to. And if I've misjudged my friend, I at least owe him an apology for thinking he was up to no good. If I haven't, then, this will also help him move along, right?

I can't see how to get "unstuck" until I know what everyone is thinking. And yes, I'm a bit confused by my husband, but I guess I'm flattered he trusts me to take care of all this. Tho I wish it weren't left all up to me...

I guess I should've said I've decided to break contact w/him (friend), but to let him know (nicely) why. And to ask him to help (by stopping all the stuff I said & reminding me too if I need it). I'm gonna continue w/the counselling for another year & see what grows from it. This really seems like the only reasonable thing to do.

[shh!]

Ahh, you poor thing! Looks like this will be one helluva trip. Your husband is lucky to have such a level-headed and conscientious wife - there aren't too many like you out there. And no, I think you are far from naive.

[indigosoul]

Ahh, you poor thing! Looks like this will be one helluva trip. Your husband is lucky to have such a level-headed and conscientious wife - there aren't too many like you out there. And no, I think you are far from naive.

Oh! Thanks for the sympathy Shh! I suppose I needed that, tho wasn't expected. One could argue I've mostly done this to myself...

Ya, I feel like I'm doing right, tho it will really hurt if I find out he has been holding stuff back. Best scenario I'm hoping for would go like "well, of course I really like you, but no, I haven't been pulling your chain. I just wanted to cheer you up...". Am giving this 50% odds.

[boobaa]

Thanks to your freaking "WOW" words Frasbee I forced my-self to read all that. Thanks to you I have wasted valuable time on this disturbing garbage you ass. Anyways...your husband would let you sleep with someone else to "get it over with"?...yea..now thats love folks (UBER SARCASM)

Why are you even here if you are wasting your valuable time?

[whaywardj]

Wow. The plot thickens, Indi. You must under some INCREDIBLE stress. Keep in mind: If the odds on how things go are 50-50 with your husband, the chances are good the odds for how they go with your friend are also 50-50. (Or is that what you were saying?) What a balancing act! Good luck.