Does he want to have sex before we marry or not?

[Petit Papillon]

Try reading the gnostic gospels. They were banned from the bible in the 3rd century.

I study religion for a hobby.

And women were allowed to be priests up until that point too. Priests were allowed to marry. Early Christianity was actually quite a beautiful religion until Charlemagne came along and split everything up.

Heey Charlemagne was capped in Aachen,there where I use to live sometimes

[Junket]

I just said... If You call something dumb,something that people are kind of beliving in it, isn't it making them dumb then?

Not necessarily.

There are people that enjoy what I consider dumb movies but I generally don't think any less of them.

Now, were you devout Catholic that was incapable of reason, it would be a different story, but I already know you're of sound mind, for the most part.

Look at it this way, one of my biggest qualms with my upbringing, and of those brought up like me, is that there was never a question, it was forced upon me.

Just like how a year ago, politicians were (and still are) considering making community service mandatory, removing the volunteer aspect, which makes service so great and unique. Why would anyone cry out against it? Because it squanders free will. It removes a key component to service. And at the base of it all, conscious adults rebel at the very idea of being forced to do anything. What is so cunning about the way I was raised is that they attempted to remove any doubt that I would stray. I was Confirmed by 5th grade. 5th grade! There were SO many things I didn't understand at that age!

My girlfriend was raised in a very religious community, but one that did not condone baptism until individuals were old enough to make the decision themselves (a heavily influenced and encouraged decision, but one nonetheless).

I have many words for the Catholic system, but "dumb" was the easiest to sum them all up. So unless you've helped manufacture what is the Catholic machine today you needn't take my ridicule so personally, especially since I did not call you dumb.

[bluesummer]

Religious debates are dumb.

Just another reason why religion should be abolished. Look at the shit it creates. Constantly.

[misombra]

i was raised catholic and i tell yall, all that sitting/standing/kneeling/sitting/standing/kneeling/pray the rosary 10 times, that shit shows strength and endurance.

[Mish]

I think Religion gave humanity a universal set of values, which showed that there are certain things that always lead to ruin and others which always lead to prosperity. I do disagree with a lot of hypocrisy in Religion. But I do agree with the principle of most Religions that everyone has an obligation to do that which creates harmony in themselves and others and avoid that which leads to destruction no matter how hard it may be. Without some of the well grounded universal spiritual concepts these become just a matter of opinion and lose all of their meaning i.e. destruction and torture can be called harmonious, love and harmony can be called destructive. Not to say that various Religious perpetrators can't be accused of the same crime. A lot of them can be, but only because of their own hypocrisy of not subscribing to the same principles that they preach.

[Rollerderby]

I don't know about any evidence, but Jesus was Jewish... and a religious Jew. Religious Jews are expected to marry, and always have been. For him not to have married would have been extremely unusual.

I wasn't aware you were Jewish Vash. I've read that before how Rabbis need to be married in order to become, well, Rabbis. I'm glad you can confirm this.

I went to a Catholic Easter mass, and I remember the Priest jsut standing up there bashing Mary and how because Jesus could accept a prostitute into his life, we should all be more forgiving of our neighbors or some bullshit like that. Even the family I went with, who is devout was a bit surprised at his denouncement.

It is much more likely (especially if you consider that the books that were taken out of the Bible all talked about their relationship) that Mary of Magdala (where she was from, not her last name) was his wife.

YEAH right sin is another creation of pope and catholics,there was nothing about it in bible ,yep

I puke at atheists, they are so ignorant and dumb,they think they know everything about life but everything they know are some quotes from Dr.House.And they reapeat them selfes.They are just boring.

Pettit, I hope this doesn't insult you, but I imagine you saying this with a heavy French accent, and in my head it sounds more cute than threatening

[vashti]

I wasn't aware you were Jewish Vash. I've read that before how Rabbis need to be married in order to become, well, Rabbis. I'm glad you can confirm this.

They don't need to be married, but to be without a spouse is to be considered "incomplete".

Also, the term "rabbi" as I believe you are using it (those who were ordained as masters of Jewish law) did not apply in Jesus' time. There were no ordained rabbis until some time after the destruction of the second temple. The term "rabbi" meant something like "great one" during Jesus' time, and was more of a title of respect in addition to a class distinction.

[doppelgaenger]

Don't you guys ever stop talking about that shit?

[Yggdrasil]

Or what about that lie that we descended from adam and eve, and yet they only had two sons, one of which was killed. Now someone please explain to me how we are all here if that is true.

Never mind having the surviving brother finding a wife "east of eden".. wherever the eff that may be... Where did she come from?

Not wanting to bash Christians here, but those stories are full of inconsistencies and when you ask intelligent questions about them, the only reply you get is: "god's ways are unknown to mankind"...

I guess that's their way of saying: we don't have a darn clue....

[Yggdrasil]

Don't you guys ever stop talking about that shit?

Never... and if you wonder why, read this: [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8059826.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8059826.stm[/URL]

[Yggdrasil]

Try reading the gnostic gospels. They were banned from the bible in the 3rd century.

Thanks. I am Gnostic. Biggest eyeopener I ever had was learning the Valentinian teachings.

[Rollerderby]

Yggdrasil, tell me about the Eden stuff. I remember reading the part after Cain killed Abel, and God marked him and all that. God said something like, "anyone who harms you will have seven-fold punishment," and I'm like... who the hell else is supposed to be walking around? Nevermind that some sects of the KKK think that black people are descendents of Cain,which obviously is even more ridiculous, and follows even less logic.

Have you read anything on Adam's first wife Lilith? I've found a few things, but no hardcopies that supports that was in the bible. That's a whole other weird twist though, isn't it?

Gnosticism is interesting. I've only read some of the gospels, but I wasn't aware people were still practicing. I thought all the heretics were wiped out in the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades.

[Gigabitch]

i was raised catholic and i tell yall, all that sitting/standing/kneeling/sitting/standing/kneeling/pray the rosary 10 times, that shit shows strength and endurance.

And now you have a bad back.

[Rollerderby]

And now you have a bad back.

Good thing flogging is out of style, that certainly wouldn't help it

[Yggdrasil]

I thought all the heretics were wiped out in the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades.

That's what 'they' want you to think