Miracles Really do Happen

[Tedel]

I read about that years ago, when I was at school. The project is probably of the 1980s.

EDIT: I searched the web about it seems there are a few water-powered cars available in Japan. This is also news for me. Check it by yourself: [url]http://waterpoweredcar.com/[/url]

[IndiReloaded]

Wow, so is this guy suggesting that the Oil Billionaires were/are actively suppressing this research so they could continue to receive profits??

This is one of the reasons why I LOVE the internet. Viva la open exchange of information. Thanks Ted.

Check it out, everyone:

[url]http://waterpoweredcar.com/inventors.html[/url]

[boobaa]

Actually, there was a car that used water instead of oil, freeing oxygen instead of CO2 in the 1980s, but someone bought the manufacturing rights and locked the project. Who? I have no idea.

The guy who invented it was not a proffesional engineer, he made that car in his garage, and succeeded very well. His name was Stan Meyer and he was murdered. Also, if you do some small research, net browsing, you will discover that there are quite a few water powered cars around. Another great thing is Browns Gas, which was invented by a hungarian in the first half of previous century, if I remember correctly. Its a gas of specially procceeded (the process of electromagnetically inverted explosion) hydrogen, you could burn a hole through a brick or metal in seconds, if lightened up, but it is ice cold on skin and doesn't do any noticeable damage, water remains after the gas is burnt.

[someonelse]

Should watch who killed the electric car.

[DoesntMatter]

Wow, so is this guy suggesting that the Oil Billionaires were/are actively suppressing this research so they could continue to receive profits??

This is one of the reasons why I LOVE the internet. Viva la open exchange of information. Thanks Ted.

Check it out, everyone:

[url]http://waterpoweredcar.com/inventors.html[/url]

Another thing to hate about the internet is when people write stupid bullshit. I just read some of that article. Elsewhere on his page, through all his spelling errors, that guy wrote about how the government caused 9/11 and secret scary men are killing off amateur experimentalists. I can't believe you aren't even the slightest bit scathing of that site

If I'm right this guy is saying he can electrolyze water and then combust it, returning more energy than he began with. That is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Someone completely fails to understand the relationship because electrochemistry and thermochemistry. And just plain both independently

[IndiReloaded]

Elsewhere on his page, through all his spelling errors, that guy wrote about how the government caused 9/11 and secret scary men are killing off amateur experimentalists. I can't believe you aren't even the slightest bit scathing of that site.

Oh ya? I didn't read that part, thanks for the warning, DM.

Its too bad when good ideas get bogged down in ppls conspiracy theories. But don't let it detract from an essentially good idea (cream vs. shit theory).

I wasn't meaning it so much that way, as that funding decisions were made (which do happen at a govt admin level) which neglected this fertile research area. Lobby interest groups are really powerful in the US, you have no idea how much, I suspect.

[IndiReloaded]

If I'm right this guy is saying he can electrolyze water and then combust it, returning more energy than he began with. That is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

The more energy part, certainly. But you know you can make hydrogen from electrolysis & I think he must be referring to a fuel cell?

[DoesntMatter]

Oh ya? I didn't read that part, thanks for the warning, DM.

Its too bad when good ideas get bogged down in ppls conspiracy theories. But don't let it detract from an essentially good idea (cream vs. shit theory).

I wasn't meaning it so much that way, as that funding decisions were made (which do happen at a govt admin level) which neglected this fertile research area. Lobby interest groups are really powerful in the US, you have no idea how much, I suspect.

No I'm well aware that the special interests groups, namely the oil barons and their puppets in Washington, are doing all they can do keep their oil businesses .... in business. What they AREN'T doing is cracking down on hobbyists at home this guy claims. More importantly everything that guy wrote was pure crap

[DoesntMatter]

The more energy part, certainly. But you know you can make hydrogen from electrolysis & I think he must be referring to a fuel cell?

I really know nothing about fuel cells but what this guy wants to do is electrolyze water to elemental hydrogen and oxygen in a stoichiometric ratio and then combust it. He's transferring energy twice and both times ineffeciently. The biggest problem is just the energy to power the cell

I don't know the first thing about fuel cells, but the reverse of the electrolysis of water is having elemental hydrogen on an inert metal surface like platinum in equilibrium with it's acid, H+, and then reducing it with elemental oxygen to form water, which is spontaneous and generates electricity. I'm not sure how fuel cells work though

What this guys doing is comparable to taking along a battery on some trip, and all that battery does is power ANOTHER battery. Well somewhat

[IndiReloaded]

I don't know too much about fuel cells either, except there are a LOT of groups working on them now. Big money ifyou can figure where to invest.

[Tedel]

Well, I think I'll buy a bike while they sort it out.

[shh!]

I really know nothing about fuel cells but what this guy wants to do is electrolyze water to elemental hydrogen and oxygen in a stoichiometric ratio and then combust it. He's transferring energy twice and both times ineffeciently. The biggest problem is just the energy to power the cell

I don't know the first thing about fuel cells, but the reverse of the electrolysis of water is having elemental hydrogen on an inert metal surface like platinum in equilibrium with it's acid, H+, and then reducing it with elemental oxygen to form water, which is spontaneous and generates electricity. I'm not sure how fuel cells work though

What this guys doing is comparable to taking along a battery on some trip, and all that battery does is power ANOTHER battery. Well somewhat

Men who can speak foreign languages are a giant turn-on.

[boobaa]

Another thing to hate about the internet is when people write stupid bullshit. I just read some of that article. Elsewhere on his page, through all his spelling errors, that guy wrote about how the government caused 9/11 and secret scary men are killing off amateur experimentalists. I can't believe you aren't even the slightest bit scathing of that site

If I'm right this guy is saying he can electrolyze water and then combust it, returning more energy than he began with. That is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Someone completely fails to understand the relationship because electrochemistry and thermochemistry. And just plain both independently

While I agree you with that site, I don't agree with you in most points. People write stupid bullshit, but you must be naive to know a clear line between bullshit and not bullshit. Besides, just to boost off another hate discussion: there hasn't been any news on Bin Laden for a long time.

Electrolizing water and getting more energy than put in it, is done already, actually I even doubt it is new technology. Definately that guy didn't come up with something new. I've seen lots of ripoffs of that technology, and there are very many bullshit conspiracists who claim they invented that engine...

If you think about it, it is not a miracle at all. Remember that atom bomb has also less energy put in. But you forget that actually the outcome is energy that was put in plus the energy which was already there in the molecules. So, statement that it gives out more energy than is put in, isn't technically wrong, but you can derive some asking arguments from it yes.

I even red about some USA fire department that uses similar engine for producing energy in their headquarter. If I remember correctly, there was even a video. But I don't remember clearly and if you are interested, you do your own research on this subject, I am sure you will find a more reliable source than some random conspiracy site, but thats up to you. I am not going to deal with it and you decide how idiotic you want to be, considering your attitude and some of your other posts also.

[Aegis]

I'm definitely not up on my chemistry but isn't electrolyzing water just breaking up the molecules? And the combustion of the resultant hydrogen & oxygen simply recombining them? So one's pulling them apart, the other's putting them back together. I don't see where the extra energy is coming from...unless you can perfectly convert all the heat & light from the combustion into kinetic energy, all you're doing is converting electricity (I assume that's how it's being electrolyzed?) into heat & light & kinetic energy. At that point, why not just skip the heat & light & simply use a damn electric motor to for a slightly more efficient electricity -> kinetic energy + "electric motor energy byproducts" conversion.

but anyway...boobaa...are you telling me humans have, now, in their possession, devices that create more energy than they use? Are you serious?

[DoesntMatter]

While I agree you with that site, I don't agree with you in most points. People write stupid bullshit, but you must be naive to know a clear line between bullshit and not bullshit. Besides, just to boost off another hate discussion: there hasn't been any news on Bin Laden for a long time.

Electrolizing water and getting more energy than put in it, is done already, actually I even doubt it is new technology. Definately that guy didn't come up with something new. I've seen lots of ripoffs of that technology, and there are very many bullshit conspiracists who claim they invented that engine...

If you think about it, it is not a miracle at all. Remember that atom bomb has also less energy put in. But you forget that actually the outcome is energy that was put in plus the energy which was already there in the molecules. So, statement that it gives out more energy than is put in, isn't technically wrong, but you can derive some asking arguments from it yes.

I even red about some USA fire department that uses similar engine for producing energy in their headquarter. If I remember correctly, there was even a video. But I don't remember clearly and if you are interested, you do your own research on this subject, I am sure you will find a more reliable source than some random conspiracy site, but thats up to you. I am not going to deal with it and you decide how idiotic you want to be, considering your attitude and some of your other posts also.

Boobaa you really should take a basic chemistry class sometime. I haven’t taken physical chemistry or inorganic chemistry yet and that deals largely with problems like this, but all you need is a first year chem. course

Electrolyzing water, 2H2O(l) --> 2H2(g) + O2(g), has a negative E°cell value, which means it absorbs a ΔG° = -nFE°cell where n = moles of electrons and F = Faradays constant which is Coulomb charge / mole of electrons. The reverse reaction of this is what is used in fuel cells, and it yields a negative ΔG° value which means free energy is released (free energy is basically the energy capable of doing work). This negative ΔG° is equal to the negative of the work that can be done by the cell. Using electrical energy to electrolyze water and then combusting it will yield LESS energy than it took to make the hydrogen and oxygen gases because more energy will be lost as heat that is not capable of doing work. The entire free energy change ΔG from an electrochemical process can be converted to mechanical work. During combustion the related equated is ΔG = ΔH - TΔS, where ΔH = q + w where q is heat and w is work. The terms "q" and "-TΔS" both reduce the usable mechanical work to something lower than a straight up electrochemical reaction