imagine if you didn't have to pay taxes

[ecojeanne]

i have an interesting quote;

Thomas Jefferson, declared, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

[IndiReloaded]

indi hope isn't ignorance

It can be if its blind and without focus.

Anyway, I wish you success, tho I'm skeptical unless you start actually forming some ideas of your own. But it will be great to read about the fruits of your hope while I sip a fine kerner on my sailboat in 10 years when I'm retired.

[ecojeanne]

actually i have been thinking about this deeply all night; i have decided to set up a community barter based system. i have loads of ideas now. i'm rejecting money as much as i can until hopefully one day it will disappear along with the banks.

[alter_ego]

She lives in a dream world. Wait till you see her other posts.

If you don't agree, you either argue the facts/arguments presented or you leave the thread.

There is really no need for personal attacks on other members. This kind of immature posts only lowers the over all standard of this forum.

[Mish]

actually i have been thinking about this deeply all night; i have decided to set up a community barter based system.

You mean like "The Market"?



It sounds a bit like, reinventing the wheel.

[vashti]

I don't mind paying my taxes. I feel it is my contribution to having the privilege of living in a Western country and helping others be able to enjoy a superior life style, too.

[IndiReloaded]

actually i have been thinking about this deeply all night;

That long?

You mean like "The Market"?

It sounds a bit like, reinventing the wheel.

Yes. And it will just do wonders in a global economy.

Better to focus on improving what currently exists, which isn't a bad system, except its lost direct control by the masses. Simple as changing the tax return input as I mentioned previously. Better to do it that way, IMO.

Eco, here:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty[/url]

Its an interesting, if somewhat naive book, IMO. Should suit you perfectly. I've read it, and some related books so feel free to discuss once you've read it. Curious to know what you think.

[boobaa]

Wins whom has the most things before death!

[ecojeanne]

well indi, vash, mish, you might all think this is backward but i beg to differ. the world economy and structure ....the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is there because of the banks. it's lopsided and ethically wrong. people live their lives in debt and some make it but most don't especially if born in poverty. the ignorance is there because the education systems and the media throughout the world are biased to keep this structure. i don't think there is anything wrong with a barter system, people still have to work to eat, get clothes and enjoy life etc. it's better than the way things are now.

and how about that question about the federal reserve bank being a private company....anyone???? does anyone feel hard done by in any way?? surely someone can see the flaw here, america will always be in national debt and the federal reserve takes half of your income to cover the interest......now that is nuts....anyone care to comment?

[IndiReloaded]

Well, barter systems have been discussed in various scifi books I've read, in addition to it being an old system of economy like Mish mentioned. Harry Harrison has written about the 'wirr' in his Stainless Steel Rat series. I think its the SSR Gets Drafted. Apart from him being a pretty famous scifi author the books are hilarious. Mbe you should have a read of that one too if you are serious about this.

I can't help but laugh, tho, Eco. I keep having visions of sending our supplier in China his allotment of chickens by UPS. LOL.

[ecojeanne]

haha indi, that did actually make me laugh...however also its not a new concept:

[url]http://www.ndgbarter.org/faq.html[/url]


even for Canada:

Across North America (and in 53 different countries) people are turning to bartering - the exchange of services and goods - as a complementary economic strategy. Establishing a barter system enables communities to make greater use of their resource of human talents, and distribute services and goods more equitably. There are over 250 of these complementary economic systems in England, and millions of dollars in barter trades take place in the U.S. every year. Japan is experimenting with 16 different models of community currency in an attempt to assist people left out of the increasingly more technological national economy. In Canada, there are exchange systems in most major cities and in many small communities. In Montreal, barter systems already in existence include Project Genesis' barter system, BECS, Centre des Femmes d'Ici et d'Ailleurs as well as several others. We will be working out ways to link our network to other local barter systems. Tom Kennedy is setting up a national Directory of members and the services/products they offer - this will allow members to use their credits in different cities across Canada.

[IndiReloaded]

Well Eco, I live in Canada & I have family in Montreal. All I can say is that its not big here.

And you still don't address how this will work for global trade. Surely you aren't suggesting we collapse from a global economy back to a village one?

[ecojeanne]

well it is something to think about and discuss with the people involved around the world, the possibilities are endless with this.

talking about ireland alone first: its pretty bad here in ireland from the moment the banking crisis occcured, the highest number of people got laid off last month ever... we now have the highest amount of citizens collecting the dole in decades. it is a disaster at the moment coz nobody is spending and housing prices have a slumped and is due to fall further. with nothing happening, no movement of money; we're stuck and businesses failing and feezes with recruitment too. i'm proposing this for my community to hopefully make things better and maybe grow from there

[IndiReloaded]

well it is something to think about and discuss with the people involved around the world, the possibilities are endless with this.

I'll have a look at the link you sent, but honestly if it seems poorly thought out then I won't bother thinking about it anymore. Like I say, I think the current system is fine just lacking in accountability. That is much easier fixed, IMO, than adopting an entire new system. Particularly when other countries might not think the same & this will cause problems at the global economy level.

I do belong to a couple of local coops & subscribe to an organic farm but that's about as far as I see something like this practically going. And I pay them with money b/c I make my living with the prowess of my mind.

[IndiReloaded]

talking about ireland alone first: its pretty bad here in ireland from the moment the banking crisis occcured, the highest number of people got laid off last month ever... we now have the highest amount of citizens collecting the dole in decades. it is a disaster at the moment coz nobody is spending and housing prices have a slumped and is due to fall further. with nothing happening, no movement of money; we're stuck. i'm proposing this for my community to hopefully make things better and maybe grow from there

That sounds rather bad, Eco. Your barter system is a possible local solution. Again, tho, it will suffer from scale problems beyond your local community. Buy gold w/your cash. Inflation can be a problem if dollars aren't moving.