From the BBC : Seven die in California university shooting

[vashti]

The right to bear arms was conditional on militia service. That's the way *I* read it.

[DoesntMatter]

The right to firearm was written in the American constitution so white slave owners can keep their black slaves in their places. Today, White Americans still need the gun in the same sense.

Tut tut

The right to bear arms was conditional on militia service. That's the way *I* read it.

Then you are reading it wrong. Was an ammendment necessary to outlaw slavery? No, all people had certain rights. So how did slavery exist? Easy, people claimed "blacks are not people." It's just a factually wrong 'interpretation'

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Which part of that statement describes the rights being given? The second part. It is in fact sufficient to be it's own sentence.

What is a militia anyways? A group of armed citizens

[IndiReloaded]

So DM, do you think there should be limits to what *kind* of firearms a private citizen owns? Should I really be allowed to setup my bazooka launcher, or even a sniper rifle on my back deck and point it at my neighbours house (which can be a couple miles away even).

My thoughts on the matter are that owning a gun for protection means the societial mechanisms for ensuring public safety are broken. And its ddamned hard to correct when the police don't know who the criminals are if everyone gets to walk around with a weapon. Or at least a certain kind of weapon.

Guns for sport or hunting? No problem. Specify what kind of firearms private citizens are allowed and under what conditions they may be transported (i.e. not loose in the back of one's pickup truck) and used. Anything else = you get shot by law enforcement if you pull one out.

[DoesntMatter]

So DM, do you think there should be limits to what *kind* of firearms a private citizen owns? Should I really be allowed to setup my bazooka launcher, or even a sniper rifle on my back deck and point it at my neighbours house (which can be a couple miles away even).

My thoughts on the matter are that owning a gun for protection means the societial mechanisms for ensuring public safety are broken. And its ddamned hard to correct when the police don't know who the criminals are if everyone gets to walk around with a weapon. Or at least a certain kind of weapon.

Guns for sport or hunting? No problem. Specify what kind of firearms private citizens are allowed and under what conditions they may be transported (i.e. not loose in the back of one's pickup truck) and used. Anything else = you get shot by law enforcement if you pull one out.

A bazooka isn't a firearm. As for other firearms like automatics no there should be no restriction, no registration none of that crap, those are all infringements. What we need to do to cut down on crime is keep the punks behind bars, almost all murders already have a huge rap sheet

You still can't point your gun at someone though because that is assault

[IndiReloaded]

How do you do that though? Are you saying that the boundary is anyone pointing a gun at someone else? That if you do that, then the police are within their rights to drop you?

I think that law enforcement should have some standard issue weapon(s) that aren't available to private citizens. There's a problem when the masses have better arms than those who are required by that same society to keep the peace. Otherwise, it should be anything goes, just like the Wild West. Nothing else will work.

[DoesntMatter]

Yes, if you point a gun at someone the police do have the right to drop you

[IndiReloaded]

Okay, that's a standard that can actually be worked with. Too bad your (and ours in Canada) lawmakers don't have the guts to support the cops that enforce this. You new name is Dirty DM. ;-)

[inflorescence]

So happy I live in Canada

[sadie_genie]

My thoughts on the matter are that owning a gun for protection means the societial mechanisms for ensuring public safety are broken. And its ddamned hard to correct when the police don't know who the criminals are if everyone gets to walk around with a weapon. Or at least a certain kind of weapon.

I don't think the problem is so much about the strength of the police force. Increasing the power of the police force never decreases the number of crimes. I'm a Canadian and I am always shocked when I hear about the level of security they have in the U.S (even Wendy's fast food restaurant has security guards) yet America still have a much higher crime rate relative to ours.

I think it boils down to values. If people will stop glorifying violence, they wouldn't have this problem.

[HeartIsAching]

True. What has been repeatedly demonstrated to reduce crime however, is a state with lax firearm laws. Arizona and Texas are both "Open Carry" states, meaning that if you wish, you may strap your holster to your belt, put your firearm in it and go to the grocery store, gas station, book store, whatever and be legal. They also both had significant drops in crime when those laws were enacted.

Conversely, the worst cities in the U.S. for crime are the cities that have the strictest gun control laws. Washington D.C. and New York City come to mind.

[HeartIsAching]

And just so you know sadie, I've never been in a Wendy's with a guard. Nor any other restaurant. Most banks don't have 'em either.

The places you hear about those sorts of things happening are places with strict gun control laws. When the criminals know their prey will be unarmed, they take advantage. When they don't, they're more cautious.

[IndiReloaded]

They also both had significant drops in crime when those laws were enacted.

Conversely, the worst cities in the U.S. for crime are the cities that have the strictest gun control laws. Washington D.C. and New York City come to mind.

But then you come to Canada and your examples fail. What's the difference then?

[HeartIsAching]

But then you come to Canada and your examples fail. What's the difference then?

We're not the pansies you all are in Canada?

[haxan]

The NRA is too deep in everyone's pockets in Capitol Hill.

I'm not crazy about someone carrying a gun for self defense that will be afraid or not know how to properly use it. If the person attacking you doesn't have a gun, you've just added one to the fight for them (that you won't use).

It's tough. Just be safe, your personal property isn't worth getting shot over. Here's a couple of tips for females:


If a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM. Toss it away from you.... Chances are that he is more interested in your wallet and/or purse than you, and he will go for the wallet/purse. RUN IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!

If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car, kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy.. The driver won't see you, but everybody else will. This has saved lives.

If someone is in the car with a gun to your head DO NOT DRIVE OFF ! Instead gun the engine and speed into anything, wrecking the car. Your Air Bag will save you. If the person is in the back seat they will get the worst of it . As soon as the car crashes bail out and run.

If you are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars.

Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the passenger side... If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard/policeman to walk you back out.

If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; and even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ.. RUN, preferably in a serpentine pattern!

[asdfg789]

Question to HIA and DM : have you ever lived for an extended period of time (> 6 months) in a gun free city outside of the US ?