Why are guys in their late 20's to early 30's having problems finding women?

[ShellyZ]

It's a pity some young women are not comfortable with inter-dependence, and can't trust a man enough to allow it

It has more to do with self-respect than trust, for me. I like being able to take care of myself. And I like my job. Why would I want to be reduced to a housewife? Nothing wrong with being a wife and mother, but if that's all you are, then you've lost your identity. I think it's important for women to maintain a strong sense of self outside of their husband and kids.

I saw an online poll once that frightened me. The question was posted by a middle-age woman, for other women. It said: "Do you consider yourself a wife first, or a mother first?" Out of the hundreds of women who responded, only one said "I consider myself ME first." I was like "Thank god someone does!" It seems all the other stay-at-home moms could only think of themselves in terms of their husband and kids. Made me kinda sad to see that.

For my fiance and I, we had some trouble adjusting to him being the primary financial support. I think what has helped us is our sons health issues which have made me primary carer. I have always tried to keep up some hours a week working to help me have enough money for the day to day.

This sounds like a pretty good balance, especially since having a kid with health issues complicates things. I understand that you can't always plan for everything and some adjustments might have to be made, but I think it's important for women to at least work part-time, if full-time is not manageable. Otherwise there's the assumption that women will sacrifice everything in their lives (career, friends, hobbies, independence, etc) to focus exclusively on their husband and kids.

I also think it's BS if both the man and woman work full-time but the woman still has to do the majority of the housework and childcare. Like, the man expects to come home from work and relax, and the woman is expected to come home from work and make dinner and take care of the kids. If women can work as much as men, then I think men can parent as much as women.

[IndiReloaded]

Oh please, Shelly. You don't respect yourself or you wouldn't need to bash on other peoples choices. "Reduced" to a housewife? LOL, and when exactly did you get that Nobel Prize again? What is it you do that is so earth-shattering for society?

You only understand half of this subject. I've seen almost-newborn babies left in daycare (at a university, no less) to satisfy selfish parents who sound a lot like you. At least you have the courtesy of not subjecting a child to a similar lonely fate. Remember: all true wealth is genetic. Its probably good you aren't reproducing but you really shouldn't fault those who do and choose to be excellent at it.

[ShellyZ]

I'm not bashing other people's choices or faulting them for doing anything. Like I said, each to his own. I just have trouble understanding why they'd want that for themselves. Not because they should be out doing something amazing for society, but because I'd think they would want to enjoy a full life, for themselves. It's not selfish to want a life and an identity. It's healthy. No one says men are selfish for continuing to work full-time even though they have kids. Why is it selfish for women to do that? Men don't typically define themselves as strictly "father" or "husband," because they're allowed to have a job and a life outside of their family. But women with kids can't have a job or a life without being called selfish and labeled bad parents.

[girl68]

Waayyyyy off topic here now.

[IndiReloaded]

but because I'd think they would want to enjoy a full life, for themselves. It's not selfish to want a life and an identity.

There are many who could just as easily say that by NOT having children you are not enjoying a full life. You are very mistaken if you think a parent lacks a life and identity, LOL.

But women with kids can't have a job or a life without being called selfish and labeled bad parents.

Its very difficult to do well and generally, it is the children who suffer from this unnatural juggling act. So, from that perspective, it IS selfish to take on the responsibility of children and not give them your absolute best. And best isn't money, its your TIME. Particularly in cases where the parents CAN afford to have one parent stay at home. I fully acknowledge this isn't always the case (tho I would argue perhaps they shouldn't be having children then).

You may note from my last post I make no distinction b/t women or men. There are plenty of men who take paternity leave to stay home with baby. I don't think they feel a loss of identity or a lack of a life. Check your biases.

[Mathias]

There are plenty of men who take paternity leave to stay home with baby. I don't think they feel a loss of identity or a lack of a life. Check your biases.

This.

I'd be thrilled if I got to stay home with the kids all day (if I ever have them). I love children. It would be a lot of work, but incredibly fulfilling.

[MaidenMinx]

Shelly, since you have NO desire whatsoever to ever have kids you will never understand how a stay at home parent of either sex can feel fulfilled. At the same time I cannot understand how a female can completely cut the idea of kids out of her head. That just seems so... unnatural to me. I can understand not wanting kids 'right now' and I can understand being fearful of being a bad parent. Never wanting kids confounds me. I don't think you will ever get your head around the mums out there that are completely content being wives and mums and not doing much else. Some women dream of that when they're little girls, it's all they want. A nice husband, a nice home and lots of kids. I don't get that either to be honest.

For me, I love my man and I love my little boy. They are not the be all and end all for me though. I am just as much a waitress, a painter, a daughter and a friend as I am a mother and a housewife. I don't think I would cope too well if I let any part of me die off. It's a juggling act but it is worth it.

[surfhb]

Me too! I'd give anything to be able to stay home and raise my kid fulltime. I couldn't think of a more fullfilling job

[jimtheman36]

I am in in my mid 30's and have found it hard to find the righ girl. Then I gave up looking as the saying goes if you stop looking than someome special will come into your life and cos you are not looking to keen. Anyway that is what happend but the problem is she has so many problems to deal with and some much baggage to deal with it makes it hard to really get to know her to he point I think is it all worth it. I did spend lots of time working me magic and wooing her. I just wish I could meet Miss right not Miss half Right.

[ShellyZ]

There are many who could just as easily say that by NOT having children you are not enjoying a full life. You are very mistaken if you think a parent lacks a life and identity, LOL.

I'm sure there are. I hope parents have their own life and identity; maybe I've just met too many stay-at-home moms who are so wrapped up in their kids that they no longer have a life.

Its very difficult to do well and generally, it is the children who suffer from this unnatural juggling act. So, from that perspective, it IS selfish to take on the responsibility of children and not give them your absolute best. And best isn't money, its your TIME. Particularly in cases where the parents CAN afford to have one parent stay at home. I fully acknowledge this isn't always the case (tho I would argue perhaps they shouldn't be having children then).

It may be more difficult, but I think it can be done. Having one parent not working is not the best situation for every child. Especially once the kids start school, it's not necessary to have a parent at home all day.

You may note from my last post I make no distinction b/t women or men. There are plenty of men who take paternity leave to stay home with baby. I don't think they feel a loss of identity or a lack of a life. Check your biases.

Paternity leave is a few weeks or months, if I understand it. Of course, in the US, we don't have paternity leave at all (many workplaces don't even offer paid maternity leave anymore). But it's not long-term. Very few men are willing to give up their career for the rest of their life and become full-time stay-at-home dads. And I can't blame them for not wanting to do that, yet they expect it from their wives.

I'd be thrilled if I got to stay home with the kids all day (if I ever have them). I love children. It would be a lot of work, but incredibly fulfilling.

That's rare. Any woman would be lucky to have you. ;-)

Shelly, since you have NO desire whatsoever to ever have kids you will never understand how a stay at home parent of either sex can feel fulfilled. At the same time I cannot understand how a female can completely cut the idea of kids out of her head. That just seems so... unnatural to me. I can understand not wanting kids 'right now' and I can understand being fearful of being a bad parent. Never wanting kids confounds me. I don't think you will ever get your head around the mums out there that are completely content being wives and mums and not doing much else. Some women dream of that when they're little girls, it's all they want. A nice husband, a nice home and lots of kids. I don't get that either to be honest.

You're exactly right. I understand that some people want that and they're happy doing it, but I can't relate. Just like women who dream of having kids can't relate to me not wanting them. I guess I have this attitude because most of the stay-at-home moms I know just don't seem very happy (including my own mother). They seem worn-out, for the most part. I know they love their kids and this is what they wanted, but they do an awful lot of complaining, lol. It's understandable, since they have a very demanding job and it's 24/7, but they don't seem happy anymore. I guess I just haven't met the happy ones.

Never wanting kids confounds me.

LOL, this is how I feel about people who don't want pets. How could anyone not want dogs or cats, or both? Doesn't make any sense to me. :-)

For me, I love my man and I love my little boy. They are not the be all and end all for me though. I am just as much a waitress, a painter, a daughter and a friend as I am a mother and a housewife. I don't think I would cope too well if I let any part of me die off. It's a juggling act but it is worth it.

It's good to know that there are women who manage to keep all the other parts of themselves when they become mothers. I think it's too common for women to abandon all other aspects of their lives when they have kids. And I don't think the kids benefit from that either, especially when they get old enough to realize how much their mother has sacrificed. When I was a kid, for the longest time I assumed that my mom hated her job (she was a teacher before she had kids). One day we were talking and I asked why she didn't like her job, and she said "I loved my job! I always wanted to be a teacher." I couldn't understand why someone would quit a job they loved, and she said it was because she had kids. She thought it was best for us if she stayed home, but I don't know if it was best for her. I was old enough to feel guilty, I know that much.

[surfhb]

That's so true. Seen so many people and couples put thier kids before anything else. Once those kids grow up, I hope there something left in a relationship

Someone explained to me how you should take yourself first, then your husband/wife then your kids last. Intresting concept but it really makes alot of sense.

Your kids will always love you but they move on and out.

[IndiReloaded]

It may be more difficult, but I think it can be done.

As I said, its hard to do well.

Having one parent not working is not the best situation for every child.

I think its optimal when children are young. You aren't a parent, correct? I'm curious to know which situations you think it would be better for the child not to have a parent around.

Especially once the kids start school, it's not necessary to have a parent at home all day.

This^ is certainly true, and its when I went back to work FT. But again, for those women who enjoy managing family and home, I don't see a problem with it. There are MANY things I could be doing around the house instead of working. And working from home is an increasingly acceptable option these days. I did it, back in the days when it wasn't as common.

[IndiReloaded]

This thread made me think of this ecard: