(Hypothetical) - Dark Secrets

[GrkScorp]

I think you will have a hard time finding someone who will humor you in this regard. It seems as though you are looking for some sort of guarantee your marriage will be fool-proof, but it won't be. Marriage is a risky proposition. A girl who has been thrifty all her life may decide that life is too short to not enjoy, and may decide saving it all up isn't worth it in the end.

So let's all dive right in then.., shall we? forget the questions.., I trust you.. I love you.. will you marry me? (I can't take it anymore! I want a divorce! "poor risk management")

No.., a fool-proof marriage.., or a guarantee is impossible.., and it's pretty clear.., crystal clear actually.., that this is not at all the purpose of that request.. so unless you have any other reason you'd like to sway the topic off course.., let's get the the last point..

Me have a hard time? You're saying it as if i'm at some loss somehow.., The question for them is who will want to marry them.., the question for me is who I want to marry.., and with habits like that.., I say no thanks.., it's fine to endulge on what you worked so hard to earn and save.., for as long as it's wise, reasonable.., and not excessive.. it's not like you're taking your savings with you to the grave.., but it's not like tomorrow will never come either.. am I willing to start a marriage and family with someone who will put their personal satisfaction ahead of her children's future? I most certainly will not.. that can be someone else's wife.., not mine..

BTW - cheating (when it leads to divorce) will cost you plenty, especially if you have kids, and not just monetarily. That you are more worried about the money is kind of odd, really.

Ever since my first ex.., that's something i've never had to worry about.., (because I realized why it really happened.., and I didn't make any excuses for myself.., it was my fault.., entierly).. for as long as the other person is "happy" (emotionally/sexually satisfied).., and loves you.., and the relationship is strong.., cheating doesn't take place.. the costs to cheating are so high.., and the benefits are so small (under those coniditions).., it's something you can control for..

So it's not the case that i'm more concerned about money.., relative to cheating.., I don't have to worry about cheating to begin with.., spending isn't something you can control for.., it has almost nothing to do with how strong your relationship is.., or how much you love the other person.., etc.. if you want to spend or save.., you'll spend or save.. because that's what you feel like doing.. so there's no control over it.., but then I'd at least like to know what i'm dealing with ahead of time..

I'm more interested to know more about what I have no control over.. (spending habits), than that which I have a lot more control over.. (cheating).. and there's nothing "odd" about that.., really..

To add to that.., the "actual" damage caused by cheating (to me) is very minimal.., I'm the type of person who is willing to forgive and forget.., try and understand why something happened.., and try and work through it so that it doesn't happen again.., and that's my mentality without any kids in the formula.. add kids in the formula.., and you get an even stronger will to make things work.., But I also don't wait until (after the fact).., the way to handle cheating is to "prevent it".., and that doesn't include monitoring your partner to make sure they're not cheating.., that's retarded.., the way to prevent it.., is to make sure they are completely satisfied with all aspects of the relationship.., how you look physically.., how you dress.., how you behave.., sexually.., emotionally.., etc.. When that temptation hits or comes by.., there is such a huge cost to cheating now.., (they won't be cheating against a person they hate.., or are unhappy with.., or feel so-so about.., or like a little bit.., they will be cheating against an amazing person who satisfies them and completes them in every possible way.. and that's a big thing to give up).., not to mention that their marginal benefit is also diminished.., relative to "you".., this other person (temptation) is really not that great.., all of a sudden.., the temptation is not as attractive.., and now very very costly.. (without guilt or consideration for the other person into the equation.., looking just at self interest alone)..

I like to (prevent).., take care of something before it takes place.., not worry about what i'll do when it happens.., by then it's too late.. I don't want it to happen.., that's the whole point.. be it cheating.., be it divorce.., be it poor financial management.. and the time to address those issues are BEFORE they occur.., not AFTER..

Best,

GrkScorp

[IndiReloaded]

I think you should write a 'financial suitability exam' and give it to all your prospects, GS. Let them know that "while you appreciate all applicants, only suitable candidates will be contacted".

And some of you seem confused about trust vs. trustworthy. Someone may be trustworthy but that says nothing about whether you will trust them. One is about who they are & the other about who you are.

[vashti]

So let's all dive right in then.., shall we? forget the questions.., I trust you.. I love you..

You sound defensive. Go back and read carefully. I already said I think it is foolish to marry someone who can't handle their money. I can handle mine, but I wouldn't be inclined to prove it to you, and neither would any of the other women who posted on this thread. You should be able to get a pretty good idea of how well money is managed based on observing how people use their money.

To add to that.., the "actual" damage caused by cheating (to me) is very minimal.., I'm the type of person who is willing to forgive and forget.., try and understand why something happened.., and try and work through it so that it doesn't happen again.., and that's my mentality without any kids in the formula.. add kids in the formula.., and you get an even stronger will to make things work..

What you aren't accounting for is the possibility that after cheating, she may not want you back at all and may be unwilling to work on the marriage, and of course the cost is MUCH higher when kids are involved.

But I also don't wait until (after the fact).., the way to handle cheating is to "prevent it".., make sure they are completely satisfied with all aspects of the relationship..,

Haha! Good luck with that! If you can figure out how to do this, you will be the first in the history of mankind. I wish I had a dollar for every couple who started out thinking this way.

[littlewing]

To add to that.., the "actual" damage caused by cheating (to me) is very minimal.., I'm the type of person who is willing to forgive and forget.., try and understand why something happened.., and try and work through it so that it doesn't happen again.., and that's my mentality without any kids in the formula.. add kids in the formula.., and you get an even stronger will to make things work.., But I also don't wait until (after the fact).., the way to handle cheating is to "prevent it".., and that doesn't include monitoring your partner to make sure they're not cheating.., that's retarded.., the way to prevent it.., is to make sure they are completely satisfied with all aspects of the relationship.., how you look physically.., how you dress.., how you behave.., sexually.., emotionally.., etc.. When that temptation hits or comes by.., there is such a huge cost to cheating now.., (they won't be cheating against a person they hate.., or are unhappy with.., or feel so-so about.., or like a little bit.., they will be cheating against an amazing person who satisfies them and completes them in every possible way.. and that's a big thing to give up).., not to mention that their marginal benefit is also diminished.., relative to "you".., this other person (temptation) is really not that great.., all of a sudden.., the temptation is not as attractive.., and now very very costly.. (without guilt or consideration for the other person into the equation.., looking just at self interest alone)..

I personally haven't been cheated upon but I just have to disagree with you GrkScorp, there is a psychological damage is done when cheating occurs... lots of people just can't make themselves forget or forgive. On the other hand there are people who cheated on their loved ones and can't explain why. Both of us have seen all than, you seen it more than me, you can't just say that you will simply get over it so easily.

As for the thread I strongly agree with the people who say that when you are in a close relationship you'll know if your partnet has a financial issues, you can't usually miss that

[GrkScorp]

You sound defensive. Go back and read carefully.

Defensive? Me? I'm the one who made the tread topic and asked the question! If that wasn't some type-o on your part.., then i'm not exactly the one who needs to go back and do some re-reading.. The only female posters which have been.., ironically enough.., "defensive".., have been you.., Indi & Tiay both gave very direct and objective answers.., so did AP.., she gave her honest heartfelt opinion on the matter.., you're the only one who seems to be dragging this on for more than is actually there Vash..

[GrkScorp]

I already said I think it is foolish to marry someone who can't handle their money.

And I think the sky is blue.., and I also think the moon is round.., and like we've both mentioned.., yes.., we both think it's foolish to marry someone who can't handle their money.. I don't get it.. do you want a cookie? Why are you restating what i'm saying?

Truth be told.., (again).., you can accurately gauge for how well someone manages their money without any need to see documentation.., but you can also see how defensive someone is.., how ashamed or not confident they are in their ability to manage their finances.., by the amount of resistance they put up.. So far in the thread.., despite not being the oldest.., the person who seems most secure in her ability to manage her finances and not waste money needlessly.., most content with her modest needs and wants...., is...., without a doubt..., the one and only..., one of a kind..., yours truly..., Tiay..

[GrkScorp]

there is a psychological damage is done when cheating occurs... lots of people just can't make themselves forget or forgive. On the other hand there are people who cheated on their loved ones and can't explain why. Both of us have seen all than, you seen it more than me, you can't just say that you will simply get over it so easily.

Why are you concerned about WHEN cheating happens or takes place? By then it's already too late.., you're focusing on the wrong thing.. Unless you just want to talk about it philosophically.. then yes.., it can hurt.., and you can allow yourself to get sucked deep into how damaging it can be psychologically.. or you can be unaffected.., it depends on the person..

You can debate and disagree about if it should bother someone.., or if one can truly be unaffected.., but at the end of the day.., it's more important to prevent that form taking place.., than it is to sit and reflect on the fact after it happens..

I'd be more interested in having the Twin Towers still standing today.., than i'd be at looking at any memorial or collecting any insurance policy.. and definitely.., the last thing i'd be looking for is talking about how bad it was when they both came down..

It's more important to focus on prevention.. if you're asking yourself.. "if that happens.., then what?" you're asking yourself the wrong question.., you should be more concerned about.. "what steps should I take so that doesn't happen?"..

[vashti]

Whatever you say, Grk.

[GrkScorp]

- Any other comments?

why are you asking?

Sh*t.., I love the way you answer Tiay.., you're like a guy's girl.., I would imagine very fluid communication and very little needless drama or pointless fights in any relationship you have.., everything is to the point.., no more.. no less.., but what's more impressive is how rational your train of thought is for an artist.., (can't say the same for too many other artists)..

Why am I asking.., oh gosh.., you really got me there.., well.., a lot of reasons actually..

1. To show and demostrate to Goose how to touch on sensitive aspects of people's nature.., and to lead the conversation in the direction you want to go.., with the exception of you and Indi.., Vash and AP fed right into the whole hypothetical.., taking it very personal.., and being very defensive.., and in doing that.., establishing some artificial basis.., constructing a reality which they are now defending.., (but that was part of leading).., and in doing that.., they've opened the door for for their basis and reality to collapse upon itself by demonstration of double-standards, contradiction, and hypocracy.. (insert: "given.., if he trusts you and loves you.., that is stuff he can tell for himself.., he doesn't need a paper to get some kind of guarantee for anything.., you're right.., and under the same token.., you don't really need paper holding the two of you together do you? You know what kind of person he is.., you should trust him and love him enough to know that.., marriage isn't some guarantee..".. continue to lead).., and that could easily turn into a very deeply involved conversation.., and with total strangers.., a powerful hook for them to bite onto..

2. To see just how possible it is to obtain any of those documents.., how willing anyone would be in complying with such a request.., (that information was interesting to look at.., but not interesting to consider in the legal debate me and my fellow classmates are having over ways to automatically nullify and invalidate a marriage contract or gain leverage during the divorce process).., it would have been more interesting if someone were to say something like.. "I would show him a fake credit report.., and then see his reaction.., and then show him my real one and see if he felt any different about me.. to see what was more important to him".., In doing that little "test".., she would have just handed over a fake credit report.., (fraud/misrepresentation).., and if we would assume that she didn't make her husband aware of the fact that it was fabricated until after the marriage.., and further.., that there was significant reliance placed on this report as the basis of the bargain for if marriage would take place or not.., then we would like to bug our professors for hours on end during their office hours on what would most likely take place given those circumstances.. would the marriage be void (like entering into a marriage contract with a fake-id that says you're 18.., when in reality at the time of marriage you were 17.., a minor in your state.. therefore the contract is invalid.., therefore there had been no marriage that has taken place to begin with).., or is it just the case that one party can now seek to recover damages as the result of the other party's (fraud/misrepresentation)? (this is what we do btw when we're bored.. ponder over hypothetical legal questions for no particular reason.., just to see what the result would most likely be.., if it's not your idea of killing time with your classmates.., then law school is not for you)

3. Personally curious.., I could definitely see myself asking to see my prospective wife's credit report (I find that everything else would be too much.., needless.., and pointless).., and I did want to see a variety of views and opinions.., that's exactly what I wanted to see.., and luckily.., that's exactly what I got..

4. And lastly.., for my personal entertainment.., I tried to be a little obvious about that.. in the hopes that everyone would catch on.., but I guess i'll have to be a little more obvious next time.. something like.. "let the bloodbath/ragefest begin!" towards the end of the post.. My nickname during first year was "the leader".., and not in a tribal kind of way.., but in a very legal kind of way.., it was a playful insult.., during class I had a very bad habit.., an urge I couldn't resist.., I still can't keep it under control sometimes.., (to lead people).., it's something that's frowned upon in the classroom.., it's viewed as sucking in the other person into your argument and invalidating their own through implication and contradiction through compliance and covert agreement.. like you're trapping the other person in a bad position.. with no way to escape without contradiction.., you would "lead" them down a path in which they were left with the option of either agreeing with you.., or disagreeing (but contradicting themselves in doing so).. (a lose/lose situation for them).., it's not a proper way to argue because it's unethical, uncivilized and considered "dirty".. But I would always get a kick out of how easily almost everyone would get sucked in.. (with the exception of the remaining top 5% of the class).., they too would find it hilarious.., it's almost like starting a cat-fight in the classroom and watch everyone rip eachother apart with twisted logic.., professors would hate it.., so much so that it was Prof. Stone who came up with that nickname.., and baptized me with it in front of the whole class.. (very witty and appropriate.., touche')

Thanks to everyone for all your opinions and input.., much appreciated!

Best,

GrkScorp

[vashti]

You are mistaken if you think I am somehow taking what you write personally. In order to take what you say personally, I would first have to take you seriously.

[GrkScorp]

You are mistaken if you think I am somehow taking what you write personally. In order to take what you say personally, I would first have to take you seriously.

Haha! Women can grow up.., but their modes of denial never seem to change

"I don't care about you.., and i'm not talking to you anymore.., but I just felt the need to text you and let you know that!"

So what you're saying is.., that you're NOT personally affected.., but you somehow felt the need to come back and write that.., respond to it.., and add what you consider to be a witty insult at the end of that.. because you don't take me seriously and don't care.. and you seriously believe that it somehow proves that you're NOT personally affected somehow.., more than it shoes just how personally affected you are.. right..

[vashti]

Yeah, that's it...you've got me all figured out.

[IndiReloaded]

The only female posters which have been.., ironically enough.., "defensive".., have been you.., Indi & Tiay both gave very direct and objective answers.., so did AP.., she gave her honest heartfelt opinion on the matter.., you're the only one who seems to be dragging this on for more than is actually there Vash..

Wow. How come noone told me that April was 'Pick on Vash Month'? Shit, if I'd known I would have brought a bottle in advance.

FWIW, I like to think of Vash as our 'sober second thought', but even she has a limit, I'm sure. Here ya go Vash:

[IndiReloaded]

GS, shame on you. You might, just might, have something to learn from a lady married as long as Vash.

Why aren't you thanking EVERYONE who took the time to post in your thread, regardless of whether you agree w/them or not? Hmmm, awful LOT of members on this site...

[vashti]

Wow. How come noone told me that April was 'Pick on Vash Month'? Shit, if I'd known I would have brought a bottle in advance.

Thanks! and cheers!

I am thinking he and mish are working together... not sure why, exactly, but it IS a little flattering.