I am a jerk

[corinthian]

OK guys, fair enough, I get the message. Thank you for posting your responses and I know you didn't do it for me but there you go, it is helpful and maybe it will help me avoid this kind of crap in future.

Life isn't always that easy, you know. I accept it would be a whole lot easier if I made more of an effort and specifically avoided egregious errors. Mea culpa.

[Cbrider]

it would be a whole lot easier if I made more of an effort and specifically avoided egregious errors.

You're the answer.

[Gigabitch]

"Mea culpa" is a waste of breath. What are you going to do about it?

[corinthian]

"Mea culpa" is a waste of breath. What are you going to do about it?

Gigabitch, I am thinking about this and I know what you and everyone else thinks I should do - at least in so far as that means leaving my wife.

On a side issue, and I am not going to pretend that this will interest you in any way but I think it is worth commenting on, I went to see my colleague to talk about her "No". It was a real eye-opener actually.

As far as she is concerned, what she felt for me previously might as well have been a thousand years ago and she has completely moved on. She doesn't even seem to think that her feelings were especially out of the ordinary at the time. More than that, she is not remotely interested in the idea of dating me. So far, so unsurprising.

However, what does surprise me is that she doesn't really seem to feel that I have behaved particularly badly or anything. I don't think she is saying: "The scales have fallen from my eyes: you have revealed yourself unworthy of my affections." She just seems to have this thing about men in general that, however much she may have been into them at any one time, once she has closed the book on them, then that is that. She even talked about her first love in the same vein, saying that she still thought about him a lot but that if he suddenly appeared on the horizon, there is no way that she would go out on a date with him.

I know nobody really cares what I think, given my own situation at present, but I find that ever so slightly disturbing. Furthermore, I may be a complete bastard but I am a bastard with a heart - if I have been infatuated with someone, then I can still remember what that was like and I will still see a little bit of that in that person until the day I die. Nor am I the type of guy who will just rule people out of consideration based on completely arbitrary criteria such as: "I was once infatuated with you". Who the hell cares! Can't we just start from scratch or something? Apparently not.

[Gigabitch]

Gigabitch, I am thinking about this and I know what you and everyone else thinks I should do - at least in so far as that means leaving my wife.

Actually, I'd rather see you make this miraculous leap into adult territory and start behaving like the husband she deserves. You have plenty of potential, but like I said, you're a drag-ass. Are you a Gemini, perchance?

On a side issue, and I am not going to pretend that this will interest you in any way but I think it is worth commenting on, I went to see my colleague to talk about her "No".

Wrong! I was hoping you'd tell us what she said. Sure, her compartmentalized approach to all things emotional is perplexing, but unlike you, I don't find it intriguing and the fact that she doesn't appear to see anything wrong with your offer should be a red flag.

She's probably the woman you deserve, actually. Lucky for you, you managed to land a woman you didn't deserve. Try not to **** that up completely, would you?

[corinthian]

Actually, I'd rather see you make this miraculous leap into adult territory and start behaving like the husband she deserves. You have plenty of potential, but like I said, you're a drag-ass.

I'm so glad you said that because talking to my colleague really made me recognise how rare and precious a thing it is to be with someone who actually cares about me (i.e. my wife), even if the poor girl is at the end of her tether. It is not so easy to just drum up a relationship from thin air, even if, as in the case of my colleague, I have known her quite a long time and thought that maybe I had a bit of a head start.

Are you a Gemini, perchance?

No. You don't believe in all that shit, do you?

Wrong! I was hoping you'd tell us what she said. Sure, her compartmentalized approach to all things emotional is perplexing, but unlike you, I don't find it intriguing and the fact that she doesn't appear to see anything wrong with your offer should be a red flag.

She's probably the woman you deserve, actually.

Actually, I don't find it intriguing if what you mean by that is that it arouses my interest in her. I just find it odd, not in a good way. To be fair to her, I can't be absolutely certain that she sees nothing wrong in my offer - maybe she was just being polite. She did mention that she had been uncomfortable with our fling because it had been based on lies.

Lucky for you, you managed to land a woman you didn't deserve. Try not to **** that up completely, would you?

If you think it's OK to try, I will try! Thank you.

[IndiReloaded]

"Mea culpa" is a waste of breath. What are you going to do about it?

Exactly what Giga said. You are a weasel & you know it. Question is: what are you going to do about it?

Corinthian, I know a guy like you. He's got what we call terminal selfishness.

You can do therapy, and similar stuff. In fact, you'll love it b/c it will give you chance to talk all about YOU, your favourite subject. I'm sure you are just eating up all these responses as well. "Attention whore" would also apply to you, I suspect.

Perhaps a counsellor can help you discover why you are this way, perhaps not.

The *solution* for you tho, however you get there, is to start taking responsibility for your actions (no, you are not doing this) & satisfaction in making other people happy. Tho you don't realize it, this will ultimately lead to an easier and happier life for you as well.

Good luck on your journey.

[corinthian]

Exactly what Giga said. You are a weasel & you know it. Question is: what are you going to do about it?

Corinthian, I know a guy like you. He's got what we call terminal selfishness.

You can do therapy, and similar stuff. In fact, you'll love it b/c it will give you chance to talk all about YOU, your favourite subject. I'm sure you are just eating up all these responses as well. "Attention whore" would also apply to you, I suspect.

Perhaps a counsellor can help you discover why you are this way, perhaps not.

The *solution* for you tho, however you get there, is to start taking responsibility for your actions (no, you are not doing this) & satisfaction in making other people happy. Tho you don't realize it, this will ultimately lead to an easier and happier life for you as well.

Good luck on your journey.

I appreciate what you are saying. Clearly I have massive issues to work on and I have not been miraculously saved by a few harsh words in an anonymous forum.

I take your point about being an "Attention Whore" and being overly interested in talking about myself and my "psychopathology". In fact, this is one thing that has always worried me about the therapy I have done. Not sure there is any way around that one, though, if one believes that therapy is worth trying - and obviously that must be something that good therapists are fully aware of and hopefully can guard against to some extent.

Taking responsibility: this is definitely the top item on my agenda and I accept I have not done this.

Satisfaction in making other people happy: that is an interesting area to me and thank you for highlighting that.

[vashti]

I don't find it the least bit surprising that she totally lost her feelings for you. I wouldn't give the time of day to anyone I ever dated before I married, even those for whom I had no hard feelings. Those chapters of my life are part of a closed book. Perhaps the fact that you can't compartmentalize is part of your problem. I doubt she told you the whole truth about her change of heart, though.... after all, you still have to work together.

[IndiReloaded]

My last post was the stick, now here's the carrot:

You can recover from this mess. If you really want it. In fact, as far as your affair goes, you're mostly out of it already.

Now, assuming you aren't insane, I do appreciate the reasons for sniffing around another woman are rarely one-sided. I'm certain you've had strong feelings of being unappreciated by your wife, among other things, for a long time.

However, the choice to have your fling was solely your responsibility. I should also point out that the 'good feelings' one gets from such is merely temporary. What emotional affairs do is put a band-aid on your hurt feelings so that you don't have to deal with what is *really* bothering you: the problems with your marriage.

I don't think you need psychotherapy, that's self-indulgent & you don't sound crazy. Unless what you really want is to help fund some shrink's new BMW?

What I think you need is professional counselling, for yourself, and then for you & your wife as a couple. If you both commit to improving things, together, I predict you'll see significant improvement within a year.

Before you do this, tho, I would encourage you to read the 'sticky' thread on Stages of Marriage. You'll find it on the main page of the Love Advice forum. You may even choose to share with your wife.

I also suggest this thread. Don't let the title throw you, many of the posts are particularly relevant, esp those dealing with the concept of Commitment:

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/introduce-yourself/25478-sister-law.html[/url]

So, good luck "jerk". You may have been one, but that's no excuse to wake up the same tomorrow.

[corinthian]

I don't find it the least bit surprising that she totally lost her feelings for you. I wouldn't give the time of day to anyone I ever dated before I married, even those for whom I had no hard feelings.

But isn't that because you are married? I can see that it would be helpful in a marriage to have that approach but this girl is not married.

Those chapters of my life are part of a closed book. Perhaps the fact that you can't compartmentalize is part of your problem..

Oh, I think my problem is I am way too good at compartmentalizing - how else could I simultaneously pursue my interest in this girl from work and still come out of it thinking I should stay with my wife?

I doubt she told you the whole truth about her change of heart, though.... after all, you still have to work together.

Yes. I tried to make it clear to her that I am fairly unshockable because it is damn hard to get anyone to be truthful to one's face about this sort of thing.

[vashti]

But isn't that because you are married? I can see that it would be helpful in a marriage to have that approach but this girl is not married.

???

I don't understand how having your feelings disappear is at ALL related to marital status. I think once a person has accepted that it's over, it IS indeed over. Especially women. She had a fling with you, not a life. You made it in to a bigger deal than it was.

I also don't really think it is useful for you to obsess over this when you have much bigger fish to fry.

[corinthian]

???

I don't understand how having your feelings disappear is at ALL related to marital status. I think once a person has accepted that it's over, it IS indeed over. Especially women. She had a fling with you, not a life. You made it in to a bigger deal than it was.

I also don't really think it is useful for you to obsess over this when you have much bigger fish to fry.

I agree with you about the feelings disappearing, it was just the "giving the time of day" thing that seemed a bit extreme, except maybe once you are married.

Yes, of course I made it into a bigger thing than it was but, as I say, since then I have still been seeing the girl at work for the past two years and I genuinely like her, that is all. I suppose it was something about the words she used to describe how she felt that made me think there might be something lasting about that - even if we acknowledge that about half of those words have been completely disproved by my actual conduct since that time. But the fact is, I am sure she doesn't even remember what she felt or said about me and I do think that must be a feature of women more than it is of men.

Anyway, I agree that it is pointless to worry about this and I have, as you say, "bigger fish to fry".

[Gigabitch]

So... wondering if you've had any thoughts about frying that big fish of yours.

I've been thinking about some advice I saw online somewhere about making a conscious attempt to bond yourself more closely to your spouse. It involved cutting yourself off emotionally and physically from others, abstaining from masturbating for a while and making it so that your SO was your sole source for affection, love and sex.

Would you be willing to give it a try?

[corinthian]

So... wondering if you've had any thoughts about frying that big fish of yours.

Well, I have just been wallowing around a bit, dipping into the forums, trying out my hand at giving some advice (!) and just generally trying to verify my sanity. I have also followed up on Indi's suggestions.

The problem I am having is I don't know whether I really want to stay with my wife. I don't want to leave her, I love the girl (in a placid way), she is an absolute sweetheart (deep down), but I just see big issues that may never go away and maybe it would be more productive for both of us if we called it a day. But then I wonder if I just lack backbone, which I know I do in general (so far) but my point is, is it my lack of backbone that is actually the problem here?

Commitment requires struggle but at what point is it reasonable for anyone to leave his spouse? How do you know when you have struggled enough, or more importantly, how do you know how much you ought to be willing to struggle?

The World seems full of enticing new opportunities, whereas my marriage just seems like a lot of work for very little reward. I just find it hard to imagine, even in the long term, how rewards will manifest themselves, even if I can acknowledge that it is probably necessary to go through the wilderness to reach the Promised Land.

I need to know what the Promised Land will actually be like if and when I get there, and that I am actually heading towards it by staying with my wife. I actually feel like I should probably be heading in the opposite direction but then, that is the whole point about the wilderness, isn’t it: it is hard to stay on course, and you are constantly racked by doubt.

I've been thinking about some advice I saw online somewhere about making a conscious attempt to bond yourself more closely to your spouse. It involved cutting yourself off emotionally and physically from others, abstaining from masturbating for a while and making it so that your SO was your sole source for affection, love and sex.

Would you be willing to give it a try?

I suppose so, yes, although it sounds like absolute torture.