Anti-Americanism

[vashti]

On the one hand foreigners denounce American entertainment. On the other they consume it voraciously. That in and of itself is hypocrisy. American culture is hailed as bankrupt. Dead. Worthless. And yet you'll see people throughout the entire world mimicking American style of dress, listening to American music...

...and immigrating here in HUGE numbers, not that I blame them, but please quit yer bitchin'.

[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_imm_pop_per_of_tot_num_of_imm_in_the_wor-percentage-total-number-immigrants-world[/url]

Tedel, I think some of your points were valid, but I want to point out that individualism was not born in the US, but rather began with the spread of Christianity to Europe ages ago.

Funny, but everyone complains about the entertainment industry, but I think the majority of entertainment is meant to appeal to the lower rungs of society. (The Romans had their circuses.) I don't know why some foreigners think entertainment for dumb people represents real life in America.

Yes, we do expect our government to step in and assist our poor. That is why we pay taxes. I'd also like to point out that our country gives out TONS of money in foreign aid to help the poor in other countries. In addition, our private charitable contributions as a percent of our GDP is more than double the amount given by any other country.

[url]http://www.cafonline.org/pdf/International%20%20Giving%20highlights.pdf[/url]

This really isn't about Americans not being generous. We simply aren't generous enough to make poor countries happy.

Also, your World Trade Center theory is kind of silly, IMO. There was no immediate threat to our oil supply when the twin towers were hit, but I agree that we probably used the attack as an excuse to assert our power in the region.

[Junket]

Let's be very clear about one thing here: We are the U-nited fúcking States of America. We are not "under" anybody or anything, God included. God may have flexed His muscles a few thousand years ago, but in the intervening era, the Children of Liberty have learned a few tricks that even God was never able to pull off. The recent silence from God has been deafening, and there's a reason for that; He knows better than to pick a fight that He cannot win. The ability to turn random people into pillars of salt and send swarms of locusts to ruin crops is a pretty cute parlor trick, to be sure. But cute parlor tricks only get you so far.

Let's see how things stack up, shall we?

* AMERICA: Has the ability to destroy the entire world dozens of times over and render it all an uninhabitable nuclear wasteland for tens of thousands of years
* GOD: Was only able to dump lots of water on the world for a period of 40 days. Water! Ooh, I'm positively quaking! Mercy, Lord... Mercy! Pardon me while I get out the air pump so I can inflate my fúcking water wings!

* AMERICA: Airlifted hundreds of thousands of ethnically-correct and delicious MREs (Meals Ready to Eat) to starving Afghans during the opening days of Operation Enduring Freedom. These people needed real food, and America was up to the challenge.
* GOD: Was only able to produce manna for the Israelites during their extended tour of the desert. Manna, for Christ's sake. What kind of deity has 40 years to perfect His culinary skills and can't do any better than manna? I'm quite certain that Moses and company would have appreciated some baby back ribs and an ice-cold Budweiser from time to time, but apparently this was outside of God's reach. It is indeed a shame that America was not around at this period in history; we could have provided the Israelites with some real nourishment.

* AMERICA: Can rain immense destructive power down on any area of land accurate to the diameter of a nickel by pushing a single button from thousands of miles away
* GOD: Is forced to use such unreliable mechanisms as bolts of lightning, biological plagues, and ferocious bears as a delivery system for vengeance. Pardon me if I'm suitably unimpressed. All of this might have been wicked cool when the most advanced weapon that humans were able to produce was a very sharp stick, but we're past all of that now. We've got Tomahawk cruise missiles... if God is still sticking with the whole lightning gig, He's basically fúcked.

* AMERICA: Saves its citizens by providing them with tangible income after they retire, become unemployed, or face unsurmountable health care costs. Even the poorest Americans are much better off than the richest citizens of 90% of the rest of the world.
* GOD: Provides (unsubstantiated) claims that people will be saved from (unsubstantiated) torture by believing in Him; requires 10% of personal income as a tithe to pay for said salvation. Does not provide unemployment or health care emergency assistance despite the need for all this money. One must ask: what does an omnipotent deity need with American currency? Or, as the venerable Captain Kirk once put it: "What does God need with a starship?"

I could go on, but I feel that the point has been sufficiently established. For decades, the American people have been described as "God-fearing", as if such a description was a positive way to express the collective mindset of the United States. No, I feel it is more apt to describe God as "America-fearing", for it is clear that if He were to (unwisely) get Himself embroiled in a conflict with us, He would get his Bronze-age ass kicked from here to Cleveland and back.

Does this make us, as a nation, immoral or irreverent? I don't think so. Biologists tell us that evolution is not directed and that there is no "final goal" that nature seeks to attain. That may be true. But a necessary byproduct of evolution is that evolving societies tend to become more ordered, structured, and powerful as time marches on. In our case, we have transcended the abilities of our former deity and He has become our inferior cousin. It is hateful and unpatriotic to suggest that the United States of America should play second fiddle to anyone, be they nation, state, or deity.

With this in mind, I invite you to join me in reciting our new Pledge of Allegiance:

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic, for which it stands
One nation, over God
Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

Thank you for your time.

I win!

[Michael6084]

I live in Sweden and I must say that you are stereotyping. Not all Europeans hate Americans, I used to but not any more.

Maybe cause I've been to America. It's a nice country nice people. And I didn't see much fat people. But then again I was in New York only for a business trip. And America is a big country.

I do however hate things that are American. Like Hollywood movies, and Hip Hop music. And I hate KFC and Mcdonald's.

i may be stereotyping, but i said that i don't hate any culture, just ignorant people. to me at least, it seems the ones who are most vocal about being anti-american are ignorant themselves because they don't understand our culture. besides, our culture can't be classified into one thing. the influence from immigrants and whatnot help make america it's own thing. probably the most visible version is american english and while it is a language that originated in the british isles, we have our own slang, pronounciation, and words to make it a different dialect from that of british or australian english.

[Junket]

To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.

[Michael6084]

So.. while there are people in New York, Cali, NJ, FL, IL, etc.. that don't support the administration at all.. all the world sees are clips of people from Texas & North Virginia... just to build up an image that sells the idea of "ALL AMERICANS ARE AS IGNORANT AS BUSH"..

i dunno why you put northern virginia as an example, i suppose to hit close to home for me, but northern virginia is literally the liberal hotspot in virginia. while the rest of the state is typically conservative, i say i come from "northern virginia" because it isnt like anything from the rest of virginia. northern virginia is the most populous area when comparing parts of the DC Metro area.

i probably went overboard, but i'd like to get that out because people who've never actually visited virginia dont know the significance of "northern virginia". the area has more of the characteristics of a northern city.

[Gigabitch]

probably the most visible version is american english and while it is a language that originated in the british isles, we have our own slang, pronounciation, and words to make it a different dialect from that of british or australian english.

Dude, have you heard people from Alabama? That mush is more inscrutable than Welsh, IMO.

I think this country is just too big to be encompassed in one prejudice. Sure, some people hate Americans. Some Americans hate the French. Borat hates Uzbekistan.

It doesn't bother me at all any more, actually. I don't feel that ignorant, NASCAR-watching, BigMac gobbling, evangelical Christians represent me at all, but I fully acknowledge that they are the Face of America, as portrayed by our own media.

It's no surprise to me that prejudice is a worldwide phenomenon, not limited to the U.S.

[Michael6084]

I think that anti-Americanism is half true and half another stereotype. As I see things, the US government is very hypocrit. On the one hand, they promote freedom and on the other, they close their markets and pass protective laws. I am also from those who agree that both the attack to the World Trade Center and Iraq were planned to have an excuse to attack and get oil reserves. Actually, Osama Bin Laden's video two days before the re-election of Bush was more than suspicious for me.

From the American people I have met, I'd say you are kind people. The problem is just that: you are perhaps too kind. It seems your culture is so civilized that your lives lack the passions other people have to live with, like, for example, when you struggle daily to eat or not to eat. So how do you inject some passion to your lives? Through your very developed, but also very stereotyped, entertainment industry. The problem is that when you sell your TV shows and films (British English, sorry) to the rest of the world, it is this stereotyped view what we see. Friends, Sex and the City, SmallVille, Ally McBeal... you name them.

A third ingredient would be your Paris-Hilton-styled individualism and materialism. American culture was born with the philgrims (sorry if misspelled) who you remember in your Thanksgiving Day. They were the Calvinists that were escaping from the English queen's Anglicanism of the time, and they were people who believed in predestination: God already knew if you were going to Heaven or Hell at the end of your life, so the clue for them was success in life. Now you live upon those principles: striving for more success and striving for being successful for yourselves. It's not "bad" nor "selfish" because you were raised under those cultural principles; however, when you see it from another point of view it is just a selfish way to see live! So I think this is the third source of anti-Americanism.

Actually, Inca's policies included sharing a lot and here in Peru you can still see people sharing food if the others are too poor. You wait for the government to provide you with the stuff you need if you have an emergency.

1. I don't believe that the WTC was an attempt for us to get oil or whatever personal vendettas Bush has. I believe it was at first an attack that Bush for some reason didnt pick up on, but then transformed into Bush's War. I'd probably agree that Bush set up 9/11, but what still gets me is the attacks in Spain and Britain, I believe? If 9/11 was all Bush's idea, then does that mean that the threats from Al Qaeda were actually "secret American plans" to force Spain to withdraw from the Middle East? Did Bush have Americans bomb the subway in Spain to make them leave?

I believe Al Qaeda, which is an alliance of terrorist organizations, attacked WTC. I don't believe Iraq should have been touched, but I do believe these terrorist organizations destroyed the towers, not Bush.

2. I don't know what part of the country you visited, but I find Americans hostile to me in a sense, and I'm an American. When I was young and used to ride my bike places, people would figure I'm an illegal immigrant. When I used to work at a fast-food place for my first job, an ignorant American said to me "Welcome to America", yet I'm a born and raised American. Our "Passion" in our lives is not defined through our "entertainment industry" because that's a stereotypical view of Americans. A lot of the passion that exists in our country is through politics and many people go through low areas to successfully be some type of politician. We have things like the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) and the NRA (National Rifle Association) who live off of hate for one another. You have Americans who strive to get themselves to be successful from poverty (my dad is an example as he was growing up).

3. I'd have to say the vast majority of people in this country don't live off of materialism and that's a very stereotyped view. The rich and wealthy will ALWAYS get more publicity and media attention. Despite our country being relatively "wealthy", there are definitely people here who are poor, uneducated. There are many people here who struggle with their lives, like being a single mom with 2 kids who has two jobs and can do all that. That may be what you call passion. In that sense, they have to worry whether or not they'll eat, financially and literally. Like you said, the media feeds the wrong type of idea of what an American is, but trust us: most people in this country hate people like Paris Hilton or those kids on Sweet 16 who expect a party costing around 400,000 American dollars. Most people don't adore or even pay attention to the rich. It's funny because since my mom is from the Philippines, they believe Americans are all rich and live fancy lives, and that's far from the truth. That's why her family overseas always asks her for money.

While here, the government provides you with the minimum requirements of life through welfare, the idea here is that you get yourself a job and work yourself up. Our society is more of a individualist society and believes in one's rsponsibility and independence, whereas places in Asia like Japan are more conformist and you have to work and become succesful for the betterment of the people. We're just a competitive society generally.

[IndiReloaded]

Ugh, I don't know where you meet Americans, Blue, but I've never seen any American EVER say anything negative about a Canadian. EVER.
(I've seen plenty of the opposite, though.) Maybe this is more of a problem with the northern states?

BTW - I am not an economist, but you've brought up the export tax thing before. Perhaps the huge trade deficit we had with Canada contributed (at least in part) to the decision to increase export taxes? I believe lack of war support caused a heightened interest in the trade deficit, which to that point had been largely overlooked. I dunno, just a guess.

[url]http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2003/06/30/story1.html[/url]

Actually Vash, the Canadian government has had to take the US to international court on several issues (we won the software lumber issue, but it cost us lots to do & we still haven't been repaid the billions it cost us). There were a lot of things that happened with NAFTA that weren't really in keeping with the agreement. Both the WTO & NAFTA special committee found the US at fault in this matter, but the US gov just kept changing its laws to delay the process and uphold its tariffs. Its unfortunate, but there's a lot of economic 'bullying' that the US government has tried, not just with Canada but other countries also, that her citizens are largely unaware of. And the argument that 'we make lots of $$$ off the US' just doesn't cut it. Even if its true, its an irrelevant argument. The point is that treaties and laws are made to be kept, not only when its convenient and certainly not to change the rules whenever you feel like it simply b/c you can. We don't do that with all the electricity you purchase, for example, tho we certainly *could* raise the rates if we wished to squeeze the US. There are lots of articles from well-respected authors on this, but here's the account of the softwood lumber issue from Wiki, its pretty comprehensive listing all the rulings, etc:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States-Canada_softwood_lumber_dispute[/url]

I lived in the US for 8 years. Its true, there wasn't a lot of Canadian-bashing, esp given that so many in the NE actually have family in Canada. However, there was some definite strangeness, such as Americans wearing Canadian flags on their bags, etc when travelling b/c they were afraid to be recognized as American. If they feel that strongly, then perhaps making efforts to a) emigrate to Canada, or b) try to improve the international reputation of their own country, might be more appropriate.

FWIW, Canadians in general are really into the ideal of FAIR. We even kick out our own government when things turn to shit. Of course, we can do that, not being wedded to a party the way you guys are for 4 years (impeachment is a difficult thing to implement). Maybe its a system you should look into more. Seems to keep the government more in line w/the population.

[Junket]

b) try to improve the international reputation of their own country, might be more appropriate.

Eh, I don't care enough.

In fact most people don't when they have a family to take care of and bills to pay.

[IndiReloaded]

Eh, I don't care enough.

In fact most people don't when they have a family to take care of and bills to pay.

What kind of pathetic attitude is that, Fras? Shame on you. You don't think Canadians, or the citizens of other countries have families & bills to pay?

[bluesummer]

I believe Al Qaeda, which is an alliance of terrorist organizations, attacked WTC. I don't believe Iraq should have been touched, but I do believe these terrorist organizations destroyed the towers, not Bush.

.

Do enough research, and use some very basic common sense, and you'll start to realize it was the government that set this up and executed it. But, the people don't want to believe their government is capable of SUCH an atrocity. Sorry, the truth hurts.

Don't even get me started on the proof.

[misombra]

surely there are other governments out there that are worse than ours. have you noticed latin american leaders lately? there are some really messed up latin american countries who are messed up because the government exploits and abuses their people.

that's why people keep wanting to come here from these places.

do you know that in central america their government won't warn their people about a hurricane or other natural disasters that are so common in that area? do you know how corrupt mexico is?

yes our government is doing some things that are wrong, but we can get rid of our president. in a year he's gone. in many other countries, you have to deal with that same person for generations.

at least if you're going to hate america, then know about what else is out there too.

[IndiReloaded]

Are you impling, Blue that the US Government caused 9-11? No data I've read (& I've read a lot) actually supports that, tho there's a lot of unsubstantiated conjecture out there. At the moment, its just a widely spread conspiracy theory. Who knows? It could even be true (I doubt we'll ever really know), but there's no solid data for it. Not that anyone disputes that the Bush admin made good use of the attacks.

For a balanced overview of the Iraq situation, I highly recommend The Lies That Led to War, a Fifth Estate documentary (Canadian, ironically) and just about anything by Gwinne Dyer, in particular The Mess They Made. You can watch the Fifth video here:

[url]http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/lies/[/url]

[IndiReloaded]

surely there are other governments out there that are worse than ours. have you noticed latin american leaders lately? there are some really messed up latin american countries who are messed up because the government exploits and abuses their people.

that's why people keep wanting to come here from these places.

do you know that in central america their government won't warn their people about a hurricane or other natural disasters that are so common in that area? do you know how corrupt mexico is?

yes our government is doing some things that are wrong, but we can get rid of our president. in a year he's gone. in many other countries, you have to deal with that same person for generations.

at least if you're going to hate america, then know about what else is out there too.

That's a mute argument, tho, Miso. Its like saying 'sure, we're a bully, but not as bad as the bully down the street'. It doesn't change the fact that bullying is unfair. Esp if the bully gets bullied back & they take out a gun & blow them away, lol.

Personally, I don't think countries are that different from individuals, its just that the problems are scaled up. So, to me, past is past. But what are we doing about the problem to make it better? That's what I think the focus should be.

Do the right thing in your next election. Tell all your friends to get out and vote to make sure a GWB doesn't happen again.

[Junket]

What kind of pathetic attitude is that, Fras? Shame on you. You don't think Canadians, or the citizens of other countries have families & bills to pay?

Sorry, but I'm realistic. I'm not about to go overthrow my government. I'm not out to change anybody's mind. Too many people are all talk and no action. It's easy to be idealistic when you're at home.

I've done my share of difference making. I intend on doing more in the future, but right now? Right now I don't care about anything beyond what goes on in this house, where I'll be getting a job, and how my relationship goes with Amy.

Fúck the Iraqis.

Fúck Darfur.

Fúck Jesus Christ.

Your attitudes and opinions are all very noteworthy, but why don't you do somethin' with it, hm?