Have you ever been stalked?

[MerryH]

I don't think she told him that I'm the stalker, because he seemed friendly enough the one time he showed up to introduce himself. Of course, he is probably lying, too, since he lied about them being engaged. There's no ring, and she's planning to leave him, whether or not I'm in the picture. That doesn't sound like an engagement.

As for why he was at the gym, he was checking up on her and happened to see me. The problem there is that she should be working out at some other gym in that chain, but she's working out at the one near my workplace in hopes of running into me more often.

What do you think went through his mind when he saw you there? He was there to check up on her, not you. She told him she was done with you, right? So...why would you be at the same gym that's not even in her neighborhood? How do you think she explained that to him?

[VincenzoG91]

What's the lie in this recent situation? There is no benefit for her to play us off against each other if this guy is going to abuse her every time he gets suspicious of her. Or even if he isn't going to abuse her... there is still is no benefit to her to play us off against each other. I broke up with her, and I am only offering to help her leave him. If she doesn't leave and get a restraining order, there is no help to be received from me. Logically, she should just stick with her supposed fiance, the guy who owns the house they live in and is in the process of remodeling a better house for them. Why would she want to wreck that situation unless she really is getting abused and really wants to leave?

[MerryH]

I wasn't necessarily trying to prove a point with my questions, I was wondering if you had an answer. Since he was upset enough to practically confront you, it seems clear to me that he thinks you're a threat to him or her, or that you're a stalker or whatever. Since you don't believe that to be the case, then why was he upset that you were there, and how was your presence explained?

To be honest, from what you've said here, he doesn't seem all that unstable or dangerous or anything. He's had his head played with just as much as you have, whether he's an abusive dick or not, and besides the gym incident, he hasn't done anything to you. All "threats" are via Amy, and she has a long history of not telling the truth. So I don't think you need to worry about him that much, but obviously be prepared.

Why would she want to wreck that situation unless she really is getting abused and really wants to leave?

I don't know, if she were really being abused, why would she risk getting her ass kicked to spend time with you? Not a lot of this makes sense, as much as you want it to.

[misombra]

my crystal balls says that she will not get a restraining order. either because she will not file one or because it will be rejected by a judge.

she just may do the latter to keep you on the line for a while longer.

[vertical_sky]

What's the lie in this recent situation? There is no benefit for her to play us off against each other if this guy is going to abuse her every time he gets suspicious of her. Or even if he isn't going to abuse her... there is still is no benefit to her to play us off against each other. I broke up with her, and I am only offering to help her leave him. If she doesn't leave and get a restraining order, there is no help to be received from me. Logically, she should just stick with her supposed fiance, the guy who owns the house they live in and is in the process of remodeling a better house for them. Why would she want to wreck that situation unless she really is getting abused and really wants to leave?

Except she's not leaving him now and you're still helping her. Yes, yes, she'll be leaving May... or... later maybe...

The advantage to her to playing you two off each other is obvious... If you both think the other is the enemy, instead of seeing the REAL problem (her) she gets to continue to have both of you. You continue to help her (because you believe she's being abused and she'll leave him SOON, despite the fact that SOON seems to be several months down the road), and she continues to have him, perhaps cover her expenses?

Besides, if she's the kinda girl that can weave such a web of deception as to keep you both romantically involved with her AND unaware of each other, she's also the kinda girl who ADORES the thought of two guys fighting over her. I bet it rubs her ego in such a satisfying way... And oh man, if they actually got into a physical confrontation! Over little ol' HER! So it is to her EXTREME advantage to have you believe he's an abuser, and to have him believe YOU'RE the stalker, so the two of you take all your frustration and animosity out on each other, and she continues to be the poor, helpless victim who is SO sexually desirable she has men FIGHTING over her.

[VincenzoG91]

Although it would be perfectly sensible for her to leave this guy, I'm starting to wonder if she is fully committed to the idea. When we meet up, she just wants me to cheer her up, and she doesn't want to talk about detailed plans to get her out of there. She has plenty of complaints about her current situation, but I need her to make plans for the future. I will give her one more chance to start talking about her exit plan, and if she ducks the topic again, I'm going No Contact until she is ready to move. Thanks to the recent incident at the gym, I still have a possible stalker problem.

[Take2]

Dude, your one more chance on top of one more chance is just playing her game and letting yourself be played. You deserve better. Admit to yourself that you were in love with a nonexistant illusion and begin to grieve your loss. Yes, it will hurt. But you are just delaying the inevitable, to your own detriment. Say goodbye, understand that it's forever, and find someone who won't dedicate her life to a web of lies and using people. Almost any woman on the planet would be an improvement for you at this point.

[VincenzoG91]

It would be helpful if people could stay focused on the stalking issue, which is a problem even if I stop talking to her.

He took her phone away again on Saturday, and probably snooped through her contacts. I have received several hangup calls at work today. I usually only get a couple of hangups per week.

[sookie6]

I'm focusin on the stalking issue...have you thought of having a reasonable discussion with him. You two sit down and you explain to him that you have no intention of getting back with Amy. He understands you're not a threat anymore. You both go your separate ways and you focus your energy on rebuilding your life rather than worrying about your safety.

[SelflessnHumble]

I've been stalked, and I've been a stalker. (You can just skip to the end)

GPS tracking devices emit energy and there are special tools that can be used to sniff them out when they are transmitting data.
The fact is: in all my experiences a stalker is a ****ing coward, and is bluffing with a shitty hand, it's all smoke and mirrors. Although
at worst: a stalker can create in their mind: "If I can't have her: no one else can" It has been my experience that:

(1) I'm still breathing...and
(2) A confrontation can be the most effective tool. (Not physical...But verbal and mental)

I know what you're thinking..."I look fit and I'm in great shape, I can totally kick his ass." The problem with a stalker:
Even a royal ass-kicking won't be enough to deter him from continuing to follow her/shadowing her footsteps...Why?

----------> You can't be everywhere at once <--------------

How to do it? I've had 100% success with several stalkers ranging from felonious ex convicts to the casual observer and what I did:
I got inside of their heads by asking open ended questions to essentially profile them in such a way I could see their next move, where they were (verbally) going.
I could then find out what their motive(s) were for doing so: Most common answer?

She had a HUGE, pivotal role in how this guy molded and shaped his own perception...
She lied to him: even had sex and when I questioned her: at first it was denied: It was revealed that she only had sex with him:
to curb his unstable mental state which she was afraid of...So the closer we are to danger, the farther away we are from harm!!!!!! (Sounds like bullshit right?)

I've also come to find that these kinds of women were easy to manipulate due to their histrionic tendencies to invest all of their self into a man: this kind of man and were abused to some extent in their past.
A stalker type of guy has a 6th sense for these types of women and know how to use them and keep them at bay, seemingly brainwashed.

So armed with the right information you are able to counter any and all excuses the stalker would use to reason: and stalk Amy. (in this case)
You can't reason with someone by yelling at them: punching them in the face or threatening them even though Amy had said this is what he had done to make her fear him (and fear for your safety)
You also cannot reason with a genuinely crazy person. You also cannot kick a bullet's ass...

What to do:

-Always be on your guard and watch your back: This is the price to pay for if and when he snaps OR for whatever reason Amy may not have been lead on to know.
-Don't use physical violence, use words...Don't seek him out either. Unless you want to get inside his head and *deal* with this issue head on. If not? Be passive.

He will mistake your passiveness for weakness. We know better, though don't we?

-Since she has decided to stay with him for the time being...There isn't much you are able to do.
-His goal: to keep Amy there: he has won and succeeded in this goal...You don't want to play a game of wits with someone who may not have boundaries in order to arrive at any given result(s) wanted.

Art of War: read it front to back and more than once, trust me Vincenzo!
Don't be offensive, be defensive. The best opponent is one that the other never sees coming.
Don't be predictable, either.

[SelflessnHumble]

It would be helpful if people could stay focused on the stalking issue, which is a problem even if I stop talking to her.

He took her phone away again on Saturday, and probably snooped through her contacts. I have received several hangup calls at work today. I usually only get a couple of hangups per week.

Confucius say..."If password on phone is active, snooping man cannot snoop."

Keep in mind: this is the price to pay for:
-being in a woman's life where you have no business being considering the facts and
-wanting to be the hero: again.

[Charisma]

I would be worried about his whole trying to walk past you to prove a point bs, because it sounds like he's resorting to some kind of intimidation crap, but I'm more worried that you would be taking her back(even if it's in a few months time.). If she was as crafty to hide you and craig from each other for years, then surely she would have been able to sort out moving out from living with him, and selling the car, etc quickly enough that she wouldn't be followed. I just think it's convenient for craig to suddenly be this abuser guy, and not her fiance. You were her fiance once, and he had no idea about it either. Hell, if he hadn't taken the initiative to come to your door, both of yous would still be in this blissfully ignorant web of horse poop she's created.

The irony is, that he's probably acting in a slightly different way to how you acted when you found out about him. He asked questions about you and Amy, which I'm sure you asked- if not directly with Craig or Amy. You tried to dig around about him, which I'm sure he's done- though unlikely to the extent that he wanted to know which gym you go to. I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to talk Amy into getting a restraining order against you, while you're talking her into getting one against him. She's had you both in the same position, and the whole mind feckery of it all was that at some point, she would likely have married either one of you- and hid it from the other!!!

Yeah, I haven't got much advice about stalking. I'm not an interesting enough person to stalk. Maybe mentioning to your neighbours about craig possibly stalking you might get them to keep an eye out for anything suspicious (depending on if you're a good neighbour, and you think they will do a decent job of informing you). The dog and/or gun suggestions have pros and cons, but might be worth a consideration if you think things get worse than that.

p.s. I'd speak to the regular who craig had a word with, to find out what the conversation was about. The regular may have gathered some impression of his intentions during the conversation which may confirm or deny what Amy has been saying about him so far(for example- if he's asking if you come in the bar with Amy, he might be suspicious of something going on- rightly so... if he's asking if you are a violent kind of guy with a temper, he might be fed that from Amy.....)

p.p.s. when judging craig's actions and motives, it might or might not help to try and think of him also doing those things and what he's thinking if you pretend you didn't know/believe everything Amy has told you about him. Try and suspend your belief for a minute, to see if a non-controlling man would do the same....I dunno, the idea sounds cool but it might be a bit difficult to do.

[SelflessnHumble]

my crystal balls says that she will not get a restraining order. either because she will not file one or because it will be rejected by a judge.

she just may do the latter to keep you on the line for a while longer.

Yeah, "hey judge, I want to get a restraining order from this stalker-psychopath boyfriend that won't leave me alone..."

Judge: Ok, where are you currently residing?
Her: Uh, with him.
Judge: lol, case closed, petition for a restraining order denied.

Of course a sheriff can notice this guy but it would unenforceable once it is known she is still living there!
She (well, her actions) would void it.

[SelflessnHumble]

Although it would be perfectly sensible for her to leave this guy, I'm starting to wonder if she is fully committed to the idea. When we meet up, she just wants me to cheer her up, and she doesn't want to talk about detailed plans to get her out of there. She has plenty of complaints about her current situation, but I need her to make plans for the future. I will give her one more chance to start talking about her exit plan, and if she ducks the topic again, I'm going No Contact until she is ready to move. Thanks to the recent incident at the gym, I still have...

THIS ^^^ right there PROVES:

This isn't about her anymore: you've made it all about YOU.

Case Closed dude. If you were an architect: the buildings would need more than legos and silly putty to stand resolute.

There are more I's in this post than the old testament man.

[VincenzoG91]

Yeah, "hey judge, I want to get a restraining order from this stalker-psychopath boyfriend that won't leave me alone..."

Judge: Ok, where are you currently residing?
Her: Uh, with him.
Judge: lol, case closed, petition for a restraining order denied.

Of course a sheriff can notice this guy but it would unenforceable once it is known she is still living there!
She (well, her actions) would void it.

An order for protection in Minnesota works differently than what you're describing. She can get a temporary order of protection if she meets one of several criteria, one of which is living at the same resident. The police swoop in, give the guy a few minutes to pack an overnight bag under police supervision, and then they escort him off the premises. This is to give the victim a chance to move out without interference. After a few days, the temporary order of protection expires, and can only be extended for a year by a judge, in a hearing which the subject of the restraining order can attend.