Is he abusive? What should I do?

[Doc Durian]

Just read the physical abuse definition again. Glad it said nothing about clandestinely sneaking up to her while she's showering, poking your codpiece through the shower curtain when her back is turned, and wee'ng on her leg as it takes nearly a bladder full for her to notice the difference in temperature.

(I call it revenge)

[IndiReloaded]

I think even supporting him (beyond telling him to get help), is a bad idea.

This guy is a big, black hole. He will suck her dry of energy, emotions, self-esteem, giving nothing in return.

It is a fundamental truth about relationships that people really don't change. At least, YOU can't make someone change, he's got to want this for himself, to better himself as a human being. Even YOU aren't a good enough reason, babe, and if he says he'll change for you don't believe him for a second no matter how much he cries or how sincere he seems. He's just not there. You are holding on to a drowning man & he is going to suck you down with him if you don't let go.

Run, Gerber. Run as fast as you can & don't look back.

[IndiReloaded]

Just read the physical abuse definition again. Glad it said nothing about clandestinely sneaking up to her while she's showering, poking your codpiece through the shower curtain when her back is turned, and wee'ng on her leg as it takes nearly a bladder full for her to notice the difference in temperature.

(I call it revenge)

I actually think that could be very funny, depending on the context. One is already in the shower, after all. Perhaps you could argue you were just getting the pipes primed for the main event.

[Yggdrasil]

Well, it's her choice, you can't control her either.

If she thinks the relation is salvagable, we can talk till we are blue in the face, she's gona do whatever she thinks or feels is right.

Some people never learn, some are slow learners and some have to burn themselves severely before they learn.

All we can do is give advice and try to make sense to the people we relay that advice to.

The rest is up to them.

You can't fit a square peg in a round hole (unless you use a large hammer).

I know someone is gona make fun of that one...

[Yggdrasil]

clandestinely sneaking up to her while she's showering, poking your codpiece through the shower curtain when her back is turned, and wee'ng on her leg as it takes nearly a bladder full for her to notice the difference in temperature.

That actualy may turn some people on... kinky

[gerberakasbah]

Thank you for the information, especially the stuff on BPD, I know its hard to comment on a situation when I cant really post all the information there is to give as it would take forever, but you answered my question and gave me a lot of useful advice and info. I dont want to study him (I moved to a different discipline for the rest of my graduate work, after I finished my Masters), I am staying with him because he is supportive and he is kind and does praise me, but he explodes (with everyone) he has been there for me everytime Ive screwed up and through any problem Ive had psychological or otherwise, I dont see a reason to dump a man that has stood by my side just because he now has a problem (if he ever hit me in anger or humiliated me in public or cheated on me that would be a different story, if he ever hit me especially he knows that I would not only leave him but have him locked up in a second). He does want to get help and we are trying to find the best way for him to do that, I think it would depend on what his exact problem is. He needs it, not just because of me but because he looses his temper easily with people in general and that will get him in trouble one day if he doesnt deal with it.

[IndiReloaded]

He did hit you.

You are in denial. Your schooling means nothing about this, I've known plenty of silly grad students, taught a number of them.

When emotions go up, intellect goes down. You aren't thinking rationally about this.

How would you advise a close friend or relation (say a sister) about a guy like this?

Anyway, good luck. Clearly you aren't here for advice, just to hear what you want to hear.

[gerberakasbah]

I never implied that my schooling meant anything. Someone suggested that because I had studied psychology I may be trying to study him, I was merely pointing out that I changed disciplines for a reason and dont have an interest in doing that. I dont advise people when it comes to relationships, because I cant answer their questions without being with them all the time, but definately if he was physically abusive I would suggest she leave or if he was sexually abusive, at the moment my fiance has been verbally abusive... which I know is a serious problem and leaving has certainly crossed my mind more than once, like I said I told him if he ever punched or kicked or hit me out of anger I would leave him and call the police, he doesnt think he ever will (he is so feministic I think the thought freaks the hell out of him) but I am more suspicious, because I know that verbal abuse and flipping out like this can lead to physical abuse. I would like to find the root of the problem and stop it before that happens because I honestly could not imagine my life without him. I never wanted to be in a relationship before, but when I met him... he's the one. I am not scared of being alone (love to be alone), not scared I wont meet anyone else (though I have absolutely no desire to be with another man ever) and not scared financially or that I cant handle life alone (cause Ive travelled everywhere alone, have lots of friends, supportive family... Id be fine) I am staying with him because I dont believe in throwing a serious relationship away because of a problem. I can see that being seen as naive, I just think I have different beliefs when it comes to love. There are some things I would not be able to deal with (being physically abused, sexually abused or cheated on) but aside from that, I would like to be there for him.

[gerberakasbah]

I dont consider the smack as being physically abusive, for me thats a punch or something intended to actually hurt. With us, the line is always kind of blurred though because we both enjoy play fighting, we both smack and slap etc. we both take kenpo and brazilian jiu jitsu and practice that for real (in the course of which Ive often choked him, put him in an arm bar, flipped him etc even though he is far stronger than me) he is well trained, he is very muscular and we have weapons (guns and knives) in the house, he has never (nor would he ever) threatened me with those or with his stature or with any intent to hurt me... which he easily could. He comes from a military family, both his parents were in the military and he has been taught to respect women. When he explodes he goes off verbally, and the one smack was light and placed somewhere he has smacked me many times when we were having fun. Like I said, I know it can escalate... and if it does I will leave, but I just dont see him being physical or hurting me physically.

[IndiReloaded]

Then last week, he poured pepsi on my head while I was sitting in the bed and then hit me in the back of the head, yelled at me to clean it up and came towards me with his fists balled when I didnt do it right away. I was changing my wet clothes before cleaning the bed, and when I was naked, he tried to throw me out of the house because I hadnt cleaned up the mess. I cleaned up and he apologized and promised to get help.

then today he began calling me a slut because a guy at the party (who I told I had a boyfriend to and talked about him the whole time to) was talking to me. We were driving when he exploded and he smacked me, when I started crying he yelled at me more (which he always does) and kept threatening to leave me by the side of the road. Again, he apologized afterwards. When I told him that he really scared me it visibly upset him.

The thing is, I dont think he is abusive because it is not something that he does only with me, he has gotten into a lot of fights in his past and he gets aggressive and confrontational even when it is not in his best interest

I repeat: HE HAS ALREADY HIT YOU.

You need to leave, now. He won't change, it will only get worse. You don't want to believe this, but it is the truth.

If he truly loves you, the very best thing you could do for him is leave him so he (perhaps) has an epiphany about where his life is going. Sometimes, people come into the lives of others to teach them an important lesson. And his, I suspect, is that this kind of behaviour costs people important things in life.

Somehow, you must believe that this chode is the best you deserve from life. I assure you, you can do much better. Every second you stay with this guy is a moment lost with this new, better man. Go find him & leave this one to sort himself out.

But, I can see already, for all your education its wasted. You are going to stay with this idiot, and have children with him so he can abuse them too. I really hate emotional cowards like you. Bleh.

[IndiReloaded]

we both take kenpo and brazilian jiu jitsu and practice that for real (in the course of which Ive often choked him, put him in an arm bar, flipped him etc even though he is far stronger than me)

I train. What you describe isn't the same as his abusive behaviour towards you. Training is different, with different motives. You aren't supposed to hurt your training partner.

Now I *really* think your guy is pathetic. Sorry, but anyone who understands budo knows he should NEVER behave the way your BF does.

Tell your Sensei (privately) what this guy has been doing to you. See what he says to you (and does to him). If you are reluctant to tell him, ask yourself why.

[gerberakasbah]

He doesnt hurt me. I feel like I am talking to a wall (which yes I can see you do as well). It doesnt matter what the situation is, you are not listening. I said that I do those things, he is very gentle with me when we train. He has never physically hurt me (as in I have never been in pain from anything he has done). Ive hurt him, because he wants me to be prepared if someone actually attacks me (same reason he always leaves a gun with me).

[gerberakasbah]

Like I said, while I would prefer to air on the side of caution and assume that it could escalate, the chances of him ever hitting me are pretty slim. He hates men who hurt women (and has actually gotten into fights with those who have over it before, he's also helped friends in that situation by letting them stay here almost as much as he hates scum like rapists, adulterers and pedophiles). He has never tried to hold me back from anything, he always encourages me to go after my dreams, he has always been there when Ive had problems which have been on par with his, he is the perfect fiance with the exception of his temper (which in 2 years has come out 4 or 5 times with me, the problem is usually with other people). I think it is bad form to leave someone who needs you behind. I know how you feel about hearing this, as I feel the same when those around me stay with people who cheat on them, but that is my morality. He wants help, I want him to get help. I came here for advice from people who have had this anger problem themselves or been with those who had it. And thankfully, one person did help me, but I would appreciate it if you kept any further beliefs on my relationship to yourself because unless you know someone you cannot pass judgment upon them (well I suppose you can, but I dont think it makes too much sense)

[Lite]

He doesnt hurt me. I feel like I am talking to a wall (which yes I can see you do as well). It doesnt matter what the situation is, you are not listening. I said that I do those things, he is very gentle with me when we train. He has never physically hurt me (as in I have never been in pain from anything he has done). Ive hurt him, because he wants me to be prepared if someone actually attacks me (same reason he always leaves a gun with me).

No, he just hits other things, pours drinks on you, and berates you verbally. Sorry, but that's still abuse.

We ARE listening, and it's not just one, or two, or three of us saying that these are classic signs of an abusive relationship. It's ALL of us minus you. Do you get that?

Go read through threads, we don't scream abuse at the drop of a hat here, but when we do it's because it's ****ing abuse. Get it through your thick skull that his treatment of you is NOT OK. He's demeaning, threatening, and abusive.

If he wasn't, why would you be here asking us for help on what you should do about this?

There's no shame in saying you're being abused, and that you need out. Life happens, bad relationships happen. This isn't a pride thing, this isn't an ego thing, this is your life we're worried about. You're a complete stranger to us, and we're worried about you losing your life. What more do you want us to say?

You came here for advice, and we're not giving you the answer you want, so you're blaming us. You're shifting the blame, changing your story, and trying to mitigate everything you said.

If you were trying to study him from a psychological standpoint then you'd have gone to a psychological forum. This is a love/relationship forum. You're being abused. We cannot help you. You need to help yourself, and get some counseling.

If you don't believe us, call a counseling hotline for domestic abuse and ask them for their opinion on the matter.

[starbuck]

Gerber, has the verbal abuse hurt? I bet it has, perhaps even more than the physical abuse.

I have to point out that the caring things he does for you do NOT cancel out the abusive ones. It's not his temper that's the problem. It's how he expresses it. His actions. There are plenty of men out there who deal with their anger like mature adults (after all, it's children who bite, kick, and scream to get their way) and don't turn their SO's into their own personal punching bags. This is his way of controlling you.

Why are you afraid of leaving someone who hasn't enough respect for you (and probably women in general) to not treat you like this? This isn't a judgement on you, but a geniune question.

My advice? Leave him before he does something worse to you. There are plenty of men out there who will give you all the wonderful things WITHOUT the abuse. I highly doubt that you are going to get a non-abusive relationship with this guy. Do you want to go the long haul with this as the story of your life?

I have a feeling that, as Lite says, you need more help than we can give you here.