Art of the compliment

[DoesntMatter]

LOL Idk how I missed that... You compliment girls on their knockers Gribble? How does THAT go over!?

[Gribble]

How does THAT go over!?

Depends how much alcohol she's had.

[GrkScorp]

I was walking down the street with my sister one time, and a man stopped her and said "I'm not trying to pick you up or anything, but I wanted to tell you that you have the most beautiful legs I've ever seen on a woman". Because she DOES have spectacular legs, and because the guy kept on walking, it was obvious he was sincere and it made her day.

It made her day, but it didn't get him anywhere..

More on that, we're twisting the definition of (sincere).. When you (guy) says sincere, what you really mean is honest; and in fact, your compliments are seldom dishonest. When a girl thinks about what sincere means, what she really means is (intent), and if your compliments telegraph devious intent, a woman will CALL them insincere, even though it's the wrong word to use..

Example: Notice how the guy in Vash's example just walked away as he mentioned that, he even stated (i'm not here to pick you up), made his compliment, and then walked away.. Now imagine if instead he said, (i'm here to pick you up, I really like you; "you have the best legs i've seen"; and he stayed around her).. He was still being honest and sincere, but why is this different? Why would her sister think of this as insincere?

In the hypothetical case, the guy makes a compliment which may very well be true, but because of his actions, the woman feels his motives & intentions; she doesn't feel safe and comfortable to enjoy the compliment, her guard goes up, she locks-up, and she might do several things (ignore, roll her eyes, tell him to fcuk off, umm thanks?) Same guy, same compliment, just as true, different reaction.

In the actual case, the guy makes a compliment which may very well be true, but because of his actions, the woman feels safe & comfortable due to the absence of intentions & motives, she's able to enjoy his compliment as her guard goes down (i'm not here to pick you up; and his willingness to walk away), she might even smile and say a relaxed (thank you)

There is one common similarity in both the actual & hypothetical case, these form of "compliments" don't get you anywhere.. flattery is flattering, but seldom attractive

Instead of traditional compliments, learn to harness the power of indirect suggestion (useful tool in conversational hypnosis)

Traditional Compliments: (Has anyone every told you that you have very beautiful eyes? You have the best looking legs i've ever seen, you're really smart, etc)

Her: Umm.. thanks? (why? because you telegraph interest, motive & intent when you do this; and naturally, you make the other person uncomfortable and don't allow them to feel safe enough to enjoy the compliment)

Solution: (Indirect suggestion)

You: Let me show you something (you show her game)
Her: (she does something in game where she feels good)
You: Wow, nobody has ever done that before (smile)

You: I used to date an Indian girl and everytime i'd meet her relatives, they would constantly read my palm, so after 3 years of that, i've picked up a thing or two
Her: Omg! What's mine say?
You: (Read her palm, not impressed with too many things, but really astonished with other things "hint: girls go crazy for the heart/love-line & marriage line; if she's really good looking, tackle the mind-line because chances are she doesn't get the chance to have people make her feel smart")
Her: (Goes on about how loving/close to family, smart she is through some story; this is good, she's qualifying herself and tooting her own horn, this is how indirect suggestion works, you now have her feeling good about herself indirectly though you; but you didn't directly make a compliment, hence you are innocent of all trances of motive, intent, and interest)

You: (Talk about awkward topic, then stop)
Her: (Continues to talk about topic)
You: Wow, i'm sorry, it's just strange, you don't exactly meet people every day that can hold a conversation about (topic); i'm impressed..

Once you learn to apply indirect suggestion instantly, naturally, and instinctively to conversation; you won't even use a compliment again in your life (at the initial stage; compliments are ok when in a relationship).. the "magic" behind this is that you allow HER to feel good about herself, indirectly though you, but by something she DID, by one of her personality qualities, not by something she just happens to have (great eyes, breasts, legs, butt, smile, etc).. Never comment on looks, ever! Women will say they love to hear it once in a while.. and they do! (but they like to hear it to feel good about themselves, to reaffirm that they are sexy and desireable; not because this wins them over)

Indirect suggestion builds connection; because she connects the feeling of (feeling smart, funny, fun, interesting, etc) with YOU; because of something she did (she had to work for it & earn it).. It also helps you get in under the radar (you don't telegraph motives, interest, or intent) and you allow her to feel comfortable & safe enough to keep her guard down and enjoy herself around you (feel great about herself)

Women are culturally programmed to see "compliments" as a way guys aim to get something from them (namely; sex).. When you don't compliment (1. you don't fall into this category so she feels safe & comfortable around you, 2. you don't telegraph interest, intent, & motive, so you allow her to keep feeling good around you without feeling as if you're hitting on her)

Don't go overboard! Key principle in dog-training; reward! (on-off, not all the time!) You may start off with a subtle put-down to let her feel that you're not under her spell, then continue with active disinterest and quickly disqualify yourself; then demonstrate that you're a fun, interesting, etc guy around her friends or her.. then start with indirect suggestion, let her feel good about herself around you, stack onto an other convo, directly use a negative compliment (haha! you must be the only person who fell for that in a while, i'm guessing you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer), then indirect suggestion again.. (on-off; she has to feel good, but not as if you're going to keep making her feel good, she has to feel like she has to prove-qualify herself, she has to work for it, she may feel good, or she may look dumb, she doesn't know, and all these emotions create and initiate the chase; she litterally falls into a win-him-over trance; she'll find herself chasing that feel-good feeling she gets around you when she qualifies herself, and she'll quickly realize that she's chasing you because you make her feel good about herself all while she feels safe & comfortable around you; and vwala!)

So the art of the compliment; is not making one at all

[vashti]

It made her day, but it didn't get him anywhere..

Sorry, I only skimmed your post (too long, as usual), but as I said, that guy wasn't trying to get anywhere. Don't you see? He didn't want/hope for anything in return. That's why it was a perfect compliment. Isn't that what this thread is about?

Edit: haha! I just realized that grk basically took all that space to say pretty much the same thing I did in a couple of sentences on the first page. Point of contention though, DM, is that I don't recommend the "subtle put downs". They would only work on insecure girls (if that). The occassional meaningful compliment is better, but don't gush.

[GrkScorp]

Sorry, I only skimmed your post (too long, as usual), but as I said, that guy wasn't trying to get anywhere. Don't you see? He didn't want/hope for anything in return. That's why it was a perfect compliment. Isn't that what this thread is about?

Ugh.. skimming the post and commenting on it..

Yes, he had no intent! He wasn't trying to pick her up! And all he did is make her feel good about herself, and that was it. If that's DM's goal in life, by all means, let him go around and giving women ego-boosts.. But I don't believe that's DM concern, he wants to get somewhere..

Everyone is insecure, especially women, so put-downs work.. (not being happy with it is a different story).. Back to the point, forget compliments; it made her sister's day, but it didn't get him a number, a date, anything (given, that's not what he wanted, but it's what DM wants)

So, indirect suggestion.. forget direct compliments..

Subcommunication (absence of compliments): Beauty and good-looking physical features are very common, especially in my world, so I don't feel the need or motivation which compels me to comment on your physical features in an effort to flatter you.. i'm not under your spell like all other guys (who are boring and not interesting to you), i'm also not triggering your culturally programmed switch to flag me as some loser interested in you (trying to pick you up).. I'm just an interesting guy who's done nothing to imply that i'm interested in you; but I tease you with indirect suggestion to make you feel good about yourself (through your active doing).. I alternate on-off with allowing you to feel great about yourself through indirect hints of validation which you crave (because they don't validate your physical features, but instead target your personality).. Before you know it, you're getting sucked into the trance of seeking my validation.. (frame control)

Again, the trick is disinterest & disqualifying yourself..

- Don't worry, you're not my type
- I just got out of a relationship, not ready to get involved with anyone just yet
- You're a really nice girl, i'm sure you'll find someone nice who likes you one day, I have some friends you might like
- I just want to be clear about this, you're a really great person, but we're just friends

WTF? Yes! This creates comfort & safety.. you look like the guy who isn't trying to pick her up and just walking away.. on top of that, you're not even flattering her.. this allows her to keep her guard down and feel good about herself..

- Don't get me wrong, women want to be picked up, they want to be flattered (without FEELING like they're being picked up or flattered).. they live in romantic fantasy land and want it to "just happen naturally".. and that's all you're doing.. If you think about it, she's flattering HERSELF! You're simply creating a situation to gas up her ego, by letting her toot her own horn..

In short, a compliment is more effective if she doesn't feel like you're trying to compliment her (because that implies motive/intent/interest, as if you're trying to get something); AND if she has to work for it and earn it! (which is why commenting on looks is lame; let other guys do that, let them make her feel good about herself and watch her as she walks away from them flattered, but uninterested.. DM's goal isn't to flatter her, it's to attract her)

Don't disregard what Vash has said either; she makes an excellent point and it's actually a perfect story to demonstrate this.. In that initial (I don't know you well enough stage), stay away from compliments though, keep those warm & meaningful compliments for a much later stage..

[DoesntMatter]

Haha man... I am so fuucked

[Gigabitch]

Those subtle put downs are unacceptable, and to me, they're a big red flag. I want to be appreciated, not manipulated.

[GrkScorp]

I want to be appreciated, not manipulated.

It's not manipulation! The brilliant part about indirect suggestion is that YOU are tooting your own horn, YOU are making yourself feel good around (DM for instance) who only constructs a means of making you feel good about yourself indirectly..

The put-down does nothing more than rob you of your ego & esteem.. (which in good-looking women is unreasonably & unrealistically high; it only brings it down to reality).. If he goes too far with the put-downs and they become unrealistic, you will get offended (that is to say when he takes your ego lower than reality).. When he takes your ego out of the clouds and brings it down to reality however, you have this feeling of questioning yourself, being self-conscious, and realizing your insecurities (because they are true; and he has subtley exposed them; shooting down your overinflated ego)

When that happens, you seek his validation and attention again to regain your ego (depending how attractive the woman is, an other PD will follow; until DM sees that she's now grounded in reality and no longer in her ego-trip trance).. When he doesn't grant you validation and attention, but continues to demonstrate his value around you or directly to your friends; your thirst for his validation & attention grows (your ego demands it; but no longer consciously! it's not subconscious)

IMPORTANT: I think what Giga and Vash were getting at is the tragic mistake of the PD.. The PD is only useful with 9's, 10's, (and women who think they are g-d's gift to men); these women are in ego-trip trances and you are simply helping them snap out of it and back to reality.. Try and approach a group of 6's, 7's, and 8's; and your PD will make them leave, or get them very upset (because you have shot down their already low/not-so-high ego, even lower).. you create the opposite effect, instead of making their ego thirsty for your validation and attention (which it already would be in most cases without the PD in 6/7/8's) you have now given incentive to their ego to run for the hills and save itself from further feeling like a beta-female

PD10:

- You're not that ugly, don'y worry, i've seen uglier girls.. this one time (stack onto ugly girl story) [don't worry, this is why it's a PD10, her ego can take the hit, and you're not even done! you're just getting started, 1-2 more are going to follow after this one]

PD9:

- Wow, is that your teeth's natural color, or do you whiten them? (Chances are she whitens them; she'll have to confess, PD in and of itself).. Oh, well, they still look nice; it's good to see people take care of their teeth; a good healthy smile is really important.. Don't worry, i'm not a dentist.. But while we're on the subject, I don't mean to be rude or anything, but have you heard of invisalign? You know it's still not too late, it gets much harder later on as you get older?
Her: What are you talking about?
- Well, nothing, it's just that (point to teeth) those teeth over there are slightly out of place, and in just under a year, you could have a perfect row.. for someone who takes such great care of their mouth, I'm shocked you haven't looked more into it.. [notice, this is a backhanded compliment, on how well she takes care of her mouth; and you're simply offering a friendly suggestion, but now as she continues to talk, her lips will be tighter, and she'll concsiously think about her teeth and laugh and smile during the conversation.. this means it bothered her; just in case you needed me to spell that out.. she'll also go back home, and google invisalign..]

PD8-

- There are no PD's for anyone under an 8.5! Simply put, their ego can't take it (unless they have an overinflated sense of how they look; in which case, calibrate, detect it, and PD, but once, once is all it takes; then instead of PD again, simply frame control)

Don't be afraid to PD in regular conversation after the 8min mark.. Only someone blown away by her (some loser guy) wouldn't tell her that her dress needs fixing, her eyes have crusts, she has wax in her ears, her bugger is hanging, she spits on you when she talks, she talks too loud, etc.. These are not really PD's at all, think of them more like indicators of disinterest; so use them liberally.. (It shows you notice, but it also shows that she looks like and idiot in front of you, and will now try harder to improve the image you have of her)

Key: None of this works if she has no motivation to let it work.. If you don't demostrate enough value; she won't be motivated to try and keep you around as you run away.. So your focus on opening should be (willingness to walk away, have to leave soon, non-needy-ness, don't be creepy/pushy/desperate, PD the girl you like, win over and focus on her friends while demonstrating value to the group and ignoring her "I do this with a whole group of guys! Imagine a whole group of guys comming over and talking to her friends but ignoring her!").. After you get the group to like you, and they want you to stay, no more PD's, just DV, keep DVing, ignore her signs of interest, and then start to create situations where she can feel good about herself (indirect suggestion), and then stack into ways she can qualify herself (stories, indirect suggestion) and be impressed and seem to be won-over by her (not that you're NOT really won over by her, but LOOK it! guys have this huge issue on expressing emotion; if she does something to impress you or hit a soft spot, make sure it shows! let her feel that she did something to win you over; but don't over-do it! It'll take at least 10-15 things to win you over, and it could last as long as an hour before you let her feel that your connection/attraction is mutual)

[Charlie Boy II]

how is that not manipulation??

This contrived "the art of picking up women" advice always seems aimed at a pack of bald, geeky investment banking wankers in their mid 30s. Its really sleazy stuff.

[Gigabitch]

A confident man doesn't use the put downs. Never.

[vashti]

The put down method would only (possibly) be effective with women who are accustomed to feeling bad about themselves. I believe DM is capable of attracting a mentally and emotionally stable girl.

[DoesntMatter]

I believe DM is capable of attracting a mentally and emotionally stable girl.

I can't narrow down the options THAT far

[GrkScorp]

A confident man doesn't use the put downs. Never.

I'm disappointed Giga with your groundless truism..

A confident man doesn't convey needy-ness, he isn't pushy, he isn't desperate, he doesn't beg, he doesn't flatter, he doesn't suck up to her, he doesn't seek her attention and validation; the woman to him is nobody..

Not only is he not moved by her physical features, he's so unaffected that he doesn't hesitate to comment on her imperfections (as if she were a guy or some ugly chick).. that's not manipulation, that's confidence

She hasn't really done anything to impress him; he's just letting her know.. Good-looking women need help when it comes to telling how interested the guy is.. Since their ego is unreasonably high, when they leave their house, they think the world wants them (emotional rationalization).. so the guy needs to shut this down, (let her logical rationalization come into play), but her ego won't allow it, she'd rather leave than to rationalize and accept that he's not interested in her (everyone wants her in her world)

This is why you need to PD.. it's not manipulation, it's snapping her back to reality so quickly that she doesn't have the chance to run away and save her ego from the truth (that she's not that special).. this is why it makes you upset (women), because it's not pretty.. it has nothing to do with emotional stability or any other false criticisms.. it's about mutual respect, and being on the same reality platform.. no matter what excuse you want to throw at it, that's all it's doing..

The truth.. the PD won't work if you overuse it! This is why a PD will only act to "insult" a man or a woman (8 or lower), because they don't leave their house thinking "the world wants me".. In short, they are already in a reality state of mind.. (10's & 9's) don't.. And guess what, that's why the PD works on them, because their ego is still not grounded in reality, it's still high up in the clouds.. all it does is it brings it down to reality.. If you over-do-it, you cross onto "insult".. because you push her ego under reality!

It's not a pick-up/dating strategy.. it's a Real-Estate strategy.. the Seller wants to sell for as much as possible.. "Oh this house is so great, the location, the schools, etc".. (the put-down to bring the seller out of his/her my-house-is-gold trance and snap him back to reality).. "How OLD is the roof? Hmm, that's only how many phases & amps it brings in? The market is horrible, and it's still falling!" (bam, no more BS about how his house is gold, not it's just a bunch of bricks and paint).. this isn't manipulation.. it's negotiation..

If women have a problem with it, what it translates to is (we don't like it when the guy takes us out of our g-d's-gift-to-men trance and actively negotiates back).. much like a home seller (we don't like it when the buyer takes us out of our my-house-is-gold trance and actively negotiates back).. But in either case, it's not taking advantage of either party, it's about bringing things to a grounded reality, and fair market value..

[misombra]

i think people get what they put out there.

if you're complaining about how there aren't good girls or good guys, then all you're gonna get are bad guys and girls. why? because you keep talking about it and putting it out there.

[misombra]

I'm disappointed Giga with your groundless truism..

A confident man doesn't convey needy-ness, he isn't pushy, he isn't desperate, he doesn't beg, he doesn't flatter, he doesn't suck up to her, he doesn't seek her attention and validation; the woman to him is nobody..

Not only is he not moved by her physical features, he's so unaffected that he doesn't hesitate to comment on her imperfections (as if she were a guy or some ugly chick).. that's not manipulation, that's confidence

She hasn't really done anything to impress him; he's just letting her know.. Good-looking women need help when it comes to telling how interested the guy is.. Since their ego is unreasonably high, when they leave their house, they think the world wants them (emotional rationalization).. so the guy needs to shut this down, (let her logical rationalization come into play), but her ego won't allow it, she'd rather leave than to rationalize and accept that he's not interested in her (everyone wants her in her world)

This is why you need to PD.. it's not manipulation, it's snapping her back to reality so quickly that she doesn't have the chance to run away and save her ego from the truth (that she's not that special).. this is why it makes you upset (women), because it's not pretty.. it has nothing to do with emotional stability or any other false criticisms.. it's about mutual respect, and being on the same reality platform.. no matter what excuse you want to throw at it, that's all it's doing..

The truth.. the PD won't work if you overuse it! This is why a PD will only act to "insult" a man or a woman (8 or lower), because they don't leave their house thinking "the world wants me".. In short, they are already in a reality state of mind.. (10's & 9's) don't.. And guess what, that's why the PD works on them, because their ego is still not grounded in reality, it's still high up in the clouds.. all it does is it brings it down to reality.. If you over-do-it, you cross onto "insult".. because you push her ego under reality!

It's not a pick-up/dating strategy.. it's a Real-Estate strategy.. the Seller wants to sell for as much as possible.. "Oh this house is so great, the location, the schools, etc".. (the put-down to bring the seller out of his/her my-house-is-gold trance and snap him back to reality).. "How OLD is the roof? Hmm, that's only how many phases & amps it brings in? The market is horrible, and it's still falling!" (bam, no more BS about how his house is gold, not it's just a bunch of bricks and paint).. this isn't manipulation.. it's negotiation..

If women have a problem with it, what it translates to is (we don't like it when the guy takes us out of our g-d's-gift-to-men trance and actively negotiates back).. much like a home seller (we don't like it when the buyer takes us out of our my-house-is-gold trance and actively negotiates back).. But in either case, it's not taking advantage of either party, it's about bringing things to a grounded reality, and fair market value..

i would like to see you in action. i bet this behavior gets flipped around on you more times than not.