[News] Obama signs historic healthcare reform into law

[the_robot]

Many people in this country don't even follow politics or have very little understanding of what is going on yet they still form opinions....it isn't so much brainwashing as it is swaying public opinion through aggressive marketing....brainwashing implies there was an idea to begin with...propaganda is used to cover up the truth or create beliefs where none previously were...as I said very few people have opinions on many issues....a lot of people do not even vote for our elected officials.

Well, I follow politics of the whole world, but I don't vote, simply because I disagree with the system. I know what I do isn't exactly right, but it's better than voting like most people do, to the most popular and such..

[Gigabitch]

What works my nerve the very most is when people spout opinions and then they don't vote.

[the_robot]

What works my nerve the very most is when people spout opinions and then they don't vote.

I'm afraid I do that, but I'm not going to vote to people I don't think deserve power

[Petit Papillon]

There is going to be election for President in Poland this year. I really would like to vote but the problem is, I don't see any good candidate for my precious vote. All of the candidates are scumbags. Each one of them less or more. I wish the politicians would change each few years ,but they are the same since 20 years... All parties had their chance to show their good sides but it's always the same... Promises that never come true :/

[dewilliams2]

Yea but the way I see it is to always pick the least of two or more evils...nobody is going to be perfect....but I would rather vote and not get the person I want elected then not vote and not get the person I want elected...then I can say at least I tried.

I mean truly who you vote for or don't vote for can greatly impact not just your country but the world.

I don't mean to call you guys out and I certainly don't know you but I think generally people just use that as an excuse because they are to lazy to get involved....once again I don't know you guys and I'm not talking about you in particular...I just hear this a lot and its what I think people really mean.

[the_robot]

I don't mean to call you guys out and I certainly don't know you but I think generally people just use that as an excuse because they are to lazy to get involved....once again I don't know you guys and I'm not talking about you in particular...I just hear this a lot and its what I think people really mean.

If no one voted, they'd have to change the system, obviously something is wrong if the vote rates keep shrinking

[dewilliams2]

Your theory precludes the thought that many people do not vote for the simple reason that they have other things going on in life...they know more about facebook and myspace and american idol and video games then they know about current events and politics.

They just don't get involved because they let other distractions take over....I don't know how many adults my age I have met who do not understand the difference in the party ideology in this country and where the main differences lay.

And somebody would always vote...the people running are aloud to vote....I don't think the system is broken so much as it just needs a tune-up...we really in this country need to rethink campaign finance. I'd like to see it where if you give money to a candidate it is directly through the party and it is put into a general fund...then that money is divided up among the party....the money should remain untraceable by the candidates. Then there needs to be a division of the FBI given the job of investigating every politicians financial dealings.

Certainly there would still be some corruption but not to such a large degree....then all of a sudden it would be harder for corporations and entire industries to buy their own politician.

[Petit Papillon]

Dewill... You're wrong saying I don't follow politics in my country... If you would see what's going on there, maybe you would think the same...

[IndiReloaded]

"Immediately after the signing, attorneys general from 13 states - 12 Republicans and one Democrat - began legal proceedings against the federal government seeking to stop the reforms on the grounds that they are unconstitutional."

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8583350.stm]BBC News - Barack Obama signs landmark US healthcare bill into law[/url]

Making it illegal for insurance companies to deny people coverage for existing medical conditions is "unconstitutional" apparently

I find it hysterical that Republicans are crying socialism when most non socialist governments (including some conservative and right wing ones) around the world already have this implemented.

I think they need to gather up those lawyers into a large container that is pushed off the deck of the USS George Bush somewhere in the mid-Atlantic. That would send the correct message. Parasites.

[the_robot]

Your theory precludes the thought that many people do not vote for the simple reason that they have other things going on in life...they know more about facebook and myspace and american idol and video games then they know about current events and politics.

They just don't get involved because they let other distractions take over....I don't know how many adults my age I have met who do not understand the difference in the party ideology in this country and where the main differences lay.

I know a lot of people who fit that description and know nothing about politics or what goes on in the world and they still vote. Usually to corrupted politicians who are robbing us.

[dewilliams2]

Dewill... You're wrong saying I don't follow politics in my country... If you would see what's going on there, maybe you would think the same...

I said I was not speaking about you and Robot...I'm talking about what is going on in America and why things are here the way they are....we were talking about American legislation to begin with...

[dewilliams2]

I know a lot of people who fit that description and know nothing about politics or what goes on in the world and they still vote. Usually to corrupted politicians who are robbing us.

As I said though I'd rather vote for the least of two or more evils...the way I see it is the system in place is pretty solid...its easier to make a difference within it as opposed to being on the outside throwing rocks at it.

Its sort of like complaining about the paint color in your home but not repainting it because you can't find a brush you like....just pick one that is better than the other ones....even if its not your favorite.

[Petit Papillon]

Yea but the way I see it is to always pick the least of two or more evils...nobody is going to be perfect....but I would rather vote and not get the person I want elected then not vote and not get the person I want elected...then I can say at least I tried.

I mean truly who you vote for or don't vote for can greatly impact not just your country but the world.

I don't mean to call you guys out and I certainly don't know you but I think generally people just use that as an excuse because they are to lazy to get involved....once again I don't know you guys and I'm not talking about you in particular...I just hear this a lot and its what I think people really mean.

In the end, it was addressed to us in some way, wasn't it? You were comparing us to people who say exactly the same things about voting but are not interested in politics. I assume you were talking about us.

[the_robot]

As I said though I'd rather vote for the least of two or more evils...the way I see it is the system in place is pretty solid...its easier to make a difference within it as opposed to being on the outside throwing rocks at it.

Its sort of like complaining about the paint color in your home but not repainting it because you can't find a brush you like....just pick one that is better than the other ones....even if its not your favorite.

My plan is to live aways from the world.. get an island for me where I rule.

[Cbrider]

Does that mean that if they make a conscious decision to have health insurance, but can't afford it you are okay to pay for it?

Yes, there are people who truly can't afford health insurance and are a special case

Whole different group you are talking about Mish. I am talking about those people who chose to buy toys and live extravagantly rather than cover their own ass.

I would have to disagree...where is your research coming from that a large number of people in the country voluntarily do not carry health insurance for any other reason then it is not in their budget?...I'm not saying there isn't some that do it but I can't even imagine it being 1-3% of the population....of course as I said I have not seen this research you are remarking on....truly it would seem to me that most people would want health insurance if offered an option at a reasonable cost....once again we come back to financial availability...certainly they do chose to not have it...but that is mainly because they do not have the means to afford it an their choices are buying their children food and putting a roof over their head or having health insurance....so in that regard you are correct they make a choice...a choice they should not have to make.

I will not deny that people ran up their credit to far...however it must also be noted that those financial institutions made poor investment decisions and made irresponsible choices in allowing that credit line to stay open for those people continually finding themselves further in debt.

It is sort of like blaming the addict but not the dealer...in my opinion both parties made mistakes.

Finally you must also consider that not everybody in this country comes from a background of much education at all....some have no more up to junior high school, others have even less...many are simply ignorant...and you expect them to be more accountable than the ladies and gentlemen who spent great amounts of time cultivating their minds in our finest institutions so they could run our largest financial entities?...it simply seems unbalanced to me.

I'm not saying that everybody finding themselves in financial troubles are ignorant...some simply made poor decisions but those who invested all of their liquidity in their homes could not help that the price of homes bottomedout due to the banks poor decisions in investing in hedge funds and other bad loans that as they were defaulted upon put more homes on the market pushing home prices down resulting in the fact that they then owed more on their home then their home was actually worth meaning they had no credit....that may have been the largest run-on sentence I have ever written...think of it more like a rant then a sentence though.

[url=http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=10188]Coverage Matters: Insurance and Health Care[/url]

There is a fair amount of information packed into this article if you feel like reading it through. There are far more people who chose to not carry insurance in lieu of spending money on other things not crucial to their survival (i.e. Boats, Hummers, Vacations, etc, etc...). Read the Myths Debunked section if anything.

Those people should NOT be covered. If you are too stupid to take care of yourself when you have the ability to, then I really think the population is better off without you.

America has this fantastic history of protecting stupid people we call citizens. We just hand things out left and right in exchange for absolutely nothing.

Sure the banks made poor choices, but someone making $50,000 a year knows they can't afford a million dollar home, even if the banks approve them. When things go to hell in a hand basket, they all point to corporate America and blame it on them. Not recognizing that these people are as much and more responsible for their misfortune than their lender is naive and foolish.

Accountability....we need it.

I just realized that I have a perfect example of what I am talking about happen this summer.

I was out riding with friends up in the mountains and we were being stupid. One of the guys I rode with wrapped his bike around a tree. I hit the dirt he flung onto the road and went down as well. He got air lifted out and went into ICU on and off for two weeks.

Guess what? He racked up something like $300,000 in medical bills and had ZERO health insurance. Maybe he couldn't afford it......or maybe it was all chewed up on the TWO bikes he owned. He's doing something that is statistically a death trap...riding a motorcycle and doing it without insurance. These are the situations that rub me the wrong way.

I wasn't badly hurt, banged up from head to toe, messed up both shoulders and fractured my ankle, but I had full coverage insurance on my bike and coverage on myself. My motorcycle and my body were covered and taken care of because I was responsible and took the precautions I needed too. Now I have to pay not only my premiums, but the bills this other guy racked up having no insurance.

I'm 23 and in college. I pay for school, rent, my bike, utilities, insurance, etc, and I do it all working an hourly job. I by no means know everything there is to know in the world, but I feel like if I can pull it off, why can't the guy my age with the $50,000 M3 do it?