General advice welcome: Age gap relationships + phone/text/in person

[Jman39]

I think you are pissing against the wind with this one.

It aint often these people turn their backs on their family. And a lot live in fear of their lives if they do go against wishes.
Ever heard of 'honour killings'?

Happening all the time in the UK.

yes i know what those are, but here is the situation:
although her family wants her to marry a muslim boy, it doesnt mean they follow all other other rules. Id say its pretty lax where she is from. She can dress however she wants (nothing to flashy) but she can dress cute whenever. She can go out with friends and have fun. in that sense her parents are very lenient. She doesnt have to pray, none of them are really that religious, but it is "looked down upon" to marry a non muslim.

You know, i was talking to one of my friends who just came out. Hes a devout christian, raised with strict parents as well. He hasnt told his parents, but he knows if he ever told his father he was gay, he would be kicked out of the house... in a month he actually plans on moving out to live with his bf, and telling his parents then...

I asked him how he felt about the situation, and if it was like choosing between his bf and his family.
His response was: "its definitely difficult, i love my family, but Im going to be independant and do waht makes me happy. I respect my parents, but they need to respect me too. I love my bf and I cant stay at home and pretend to be someone I am not."

[xxazurexx]

You will just have to wait and see I guess. They may not be strict in certain ways, but that doesn't mean they will want her to run off and marry a non Muslim and they may be unhappy if she did...however probably not the type to have her killed and if she disobeys. I think the ones who do that, are strict Muslims....or Muslims who are a bit loopy in the head IMO.

I've been involved in a relationship with a Muslim guy (we are friends now) )and he's pretty lax, but his parents are stuck in their ways. Not surprising and being his parents are first generation in this country, he is second generation so of course and for the majority does what he wants, but mostly without his parents knowing.

I was surprised by him and a few nights ago though and because he was at his sisters house and he'd mentioned that it was his 16 year old neices birthday and she'd wanted to go out with friends. He was adamant she was going NOWHERE and because she isn't allowed out of the house after dark. I was like, 'What is wrong with her going out with her friends?'. He was saying she knows better than to ask and that it isn't the done thing in their culture. I was like, WTF???

[vashti]

your girlfriend is most likely too young to decide to leave her family. She is unable to anticipate and fully comprehend the long-term consequences at this point. Are you prepared to pay for her education and housing? Will she be okay with her parents not being involved in her children's life (if it comes to that)?

leaving ones family is something that shouldn't be done by dependent children.

[Poetic_Partner]

Azure,

Please don't generalize over a handful of horrible incidents. They've happened, but fortunately are very, very rare in the western world.

Any pushback from the family will depend on the denomination and how orthodox/reform they are. What I've seen in the states Muslim communities are no more insular than other waves of migrants.

In this specific case, the hiding from the family does worry me. I never like to see relationships kept secret. Besides wishing she would date within the community, they seem to be fairly integrated.

"...Our whole dating is a secret from her parents and some of her relatives...."

So, there are at least some relatives who know but do not stand in the way. I would guess some of the others would not care much, while others would huff and puff then defer to her wishes. That's just my take on it - she and you would have a better grasp on things.

With all that said, though, she's still with her family and is deferential to them. That makes things much more difficult to deal with.

-PP

[Jman39]

wow, thanks for the words everyone-

so to my response:
-I know she isnt ready to move out now, shes 18, almost 19. sophmore at college. dependent on her family. She has brought it up to me many times, crying and very emotional, saying she wishes she didnt have to keep me a secret. her friends all know about me. Some of the relatives who are tolerant, also know of me. I understand, and Im not pressuring her at all. I was straight up with her
"do you think you can make the decision in the future to choose between ur family and i?"
she was honest and said "i dont know, but even if we broke up, I wouldnt be any happier"

Truth is: She doesnt like muslim boys. Shes from Albania- and she doesnt like albanian boys. As a matter of fact, she has very few friends that are albanian. At her our university, tons of Albanians tend to hangout together, and she is not part of that group, she avoids it at all costs.
similarly, Im an Asian American, and likewise- many asians tend to hang out within their own groups. I also despise this segregation of minority groups. I like when cultures are all able to get along fortunately, my parents do NOT care who I marry. As long as Im happy.

So in her situation- if she doesnt leave her family for me, she'll leave her family for another non muslim boy, if that makes sense. In this case, it just so happens to be me.

Its really tough, but I cant just end things right now when things are going really well between us. Ultiimately, I think Im just gonna have to wait it out, and not pressure her in the least bit. Give her the freedom to have fun, keep everything lightly, and gradually work towards a more serious commited relationship.

[xxazurexx]

Azure,

Please don't generalize over a handful of horrible incidents. They've happened, but fortunately are very, very rare in the western world.

I wasn't generalizing. I was reciting what can and does happen! It seems like it happens a lot here in the UK and judging by what I read daily in the newspapers here and we hear a lot about honour killings. Crikey, only 2 weeks ago some Muslim guy killed his wife and two daughters and because his wife wouldn't quit her Western ways. Then there was a Muslim father who had his daughter killed, chopped her up and before she eloped with some non Muslim guy - they are happening a lot....and these are cases we only hear about. How often is it happening and nobody is finding out? They don't exactly brag about what they do, that shit is kept hush hush......and we can't account for every Muslim. Some of them are sent to Pakistan, the Mid East to be slaughtered.

As for the relationship being kept quiet, my take on it is, is that she keeps it quiet and because she knows her parents/relatives will stronglydisapprove. If they are 'that' lax, then why not tell them?

It goes against the Qran and for a Muslim woman to marry a non Muslim. A Muslim man must always be head of the household and to ensure future children are Muslims. To break way from the Muslim faith can also result in a death warrant being issued.

But whatever, maybe they couldn't give a hoot what she does - but I would dare wager the majority of Muslims would give a shit if their daughter was gallavanting around with some guy who wasn't Muslim.

[xxazurexx]

She has brought it up to me many times, crying and very emotional, saying she wishes she didnt have to keep me a secret.

I was a big secret too....most of these relationships are kept secret.

They are aware of my existence, but they think we have always just been friends that met through work.

[Jman39]

she introduces me as her bf... to those that are tolerant... just not her family or close relatives.

and as for the killings- i doubt its that extreme in my gf's case. Shes allowed to dress as she wants, shes allowed to do many things that hardcore muslims wouldnt allow.
Anyway- im just curious as to how the older siblings are going to turn out. She has 3 older sisters, 2 of which are dating non muslims secretly. One is 24 and the other is 29. Its a matter of time before one of them breaks the news...

[xxazurexx]

she introduces me as her bf... to those that are tolerant... just not her family or close relatives.

and as for the killings- i doubt its that extreme in my gf's case. Shes allowed to dress as she wants, shes allowed to do many things that hardcore muslims wouldnt allow.
Anyway- im just curious as to how the older siblings are going to turn out. She has 3 older sisters, 2 of which are dating non muslims secretly. One is 24 and the other is 29. Its a matter of time before one of them breaks the news...

Obviously, she is only allowed to do what she wants to a certain extent.....or she'd make the fact that you are her bf public and introduce you to them.

There is a huge difference between wearing what they like, to whom they are going to marry...a BIG difference. And when push comes to shove, I reckon she won't go against their wishes.....that is just the way it is.

In Islam relationships don't even exist. There is no such thing as boyfriend and girlfriend. Have you ever read up on Islam? I think you should.

It aint as plain sailing as you seem to think it is.

[Petit Papillon]

Albanian.. I was working with one guy one time. He met his wife just ONE TIME before marrying her. Their parents set it up. And after they got married. She was sitting at home with 2 little babies, and he was partying,drinking and having sex with other girls. He said to me , if his father found out that he's smoking and drinking, he would literally kill him. Well, but he was an asshole. I felt bad for his 2 younger sisters that worked with us. They we drove to and from work by their brother ( they couldn't go home alone) , they couldn't have boyfriends , they couldn't go to university and all the money they've earned , were landing on their parent's account. Yeah they weren't even able to have their own accounts. to be more clear, they were 17 and 19 yo. But besides, they could dress "how they wanted" . They didn't wear hijab or else. They didn't look like an extreme case , but they surely were.

I mean. It's clear she wants out, but she should be careful. There were so many cases of honour killings , where families got dangerous out of no where, you wouldn't say before that they were able to do such thing... Just keep the mind open...And if she leaves because of you, you should be carefull too.

[Jman39]

Albanian.. I was working with one guy one time. He met his wife just ONE TIME before marrying her. Their parents set it up. And after they got married. She was sitting at home with 2 little babies, and he was partying,drinking and having sex with other girls. He said to me , if his father found out that he's smoking and drinking, he would literally kill him. Well, but he was an asshole. I felt bad for his 2 younger sisters that worked with us. They we drove to and from work by their brother ( they couldn't go home alone) , they couldn't have boyfriends , they couldn't go to university and all the money they've earned , were landing on their parent's account. Yeah they weren't even able to have their own accounts. to be more clear, they were 17 and 19 yo. But besides, they could dress "how they wanted" . They didn't wear hijab or else. They didn't look like an extreme case , but they surely were.

I mean. It's clear she wants out, but she should be careful. There were so many cases of honour killings , where families got dangerous out of no where, you wouldn't say before that they were able to do such thing... Just keep the mind open...And if she leaves because of you, you should be carefull too.

thats scary to read, and thats precisely why she doesnt want to have an albanian bf, she said they are scumbags. I know the situation, shes told me the hard truth. To be honest- as much as it sucks to hear, Im going to let things go their course... couple years down the road reevaluate. Perhaps then Ill be able to support my gf all by myself if she leaves her family. either way, when Im ready, I will theoretically propose, adn if she "can't" then so be it... ill have to move on.

[poathomson]

I am 18 and the guy I am seeing is 23, I have tried dating people my age but I just find them to immature. I think it all has to do with personal and maturity level.