Is it normal to feel jealous like I do?

[Only-virgins]

This girl, she claimed she wanted me as a friend

FAIL

_____________________________________

[Arrow]

FAIL

_____________________________________

That's not very stimulating...

[Zatguy]

That's not very stimulating...

Ok want a real thing? There's a forumula all people use. It's especially how entrepeneurs did it and so can you!

1. Go up to her
2. Grab light hold of her hand, if she gives negative reaction to the touch then ABORT
2. Kiss her on the forehead
3. Tell her how amazing she is in some sappy romantic way
3. ????
4. Profit!

If you fail to get her from this formula, you have failz to do the ???? correctly
If you can not profit off this, ask a jew or a underpants gnome (or even more perferably a jewish underpants gnome) how you can profit
Be prepared to shoop da whoop if she punches you in the face for the method

[Only-virgins]

Ok want a real thing? There's a forumula all people use. It's especially how entrepeneurs did it and so can you!

1. Go up to her
2. Grab light hold of her hand, if she gives negative reaction to the touch then ABORT
2. Kiss her on the forehead
3. Tell her how amazing she is in some sappy romantic way
3. ????
4. Profit!

If you fail to get her from this formula, you have failz to do the ???? correctly
If you can not profit off this, ask a jew or a underpants gnome (or even more perferably a jewish underpants gnome) how you can profit
Be prepared to shoop da whoop if she punches you in the face for the method

WTF?!

That's not very stimulating...

You are in the friend zone. You will need some miracle like effort to get out of it now. She probably sees you as a friend roommate and she guys out to clubs with out even thinking twice about it. No chance.

[Zatguy]

As I said before, I don't give logical answers to illogical questions. But since interest has been taken, I shall say something actually worth saying.

Every man has his time when he must conquer a wall. This wall separates everything you have been told about and on the other side, everything one must figure out on your own. We can tell you "Just tell her how you feel" or "Just forget her", but really the choice is yours and no one else can make that choice but you!

Don't tell us and expect us to tell you when we don't know the girl. The only person who knows about the girl truly, the next person should be you. I'm not saying stalk her like a whiny bitch who is desperate for her and stalks her wherever she goes; I am saying to ask what does she like, if she could go anywhere where would she go, and other small time stuff that counts as "small talk".

Be a man. Take hobbies that excite you to prove that your not just a poor little boy who can't do anything but lay around and cry about your problems. Want to punch something? Take boxing! Express yourself? Take art or music! Something that stands you out from the ocean of guys in this world! There's 6,700,000,000 people out there, if she doesn't have you it's not the end of the world for her just like it is for you! Prove your better than those 6,700,000,000 people!

What makes you interested in this girl? Is it only her looks, the way she does (blah), is being near her make you the happiest man in the world? What makes YOU interested in her for YOU to go through this trouble. Think about this, because if you just "love" her, there are other girls who could be better. So along with giving her a interest in you, tell yourself truly why your so interested in her.

Invite her to your groups (casually). Make her feel welcomed to join along your party wagon. Along with this she will want to be closer to you than the other guys whom she met before, giving you a opportunity to show her that you can lead and teach her the things that she needs to know.

Chocolates? CHOCOLATES?!?! If I was a asshole, after she told you she doesn't feel that way, I'd steal your chocolates and toss each one at your face while laughing, "Oh what the dumb ass giving chocolates to a girl without even dating her." If you were given a lovey pack of chocolates from a friend you been with for... how long? Just how would you feel? You've been friends with her, she likes you (as a friend) and those who likes you (as a friend) will tend to stay (as a friend) until they see something different in you that changes. Take the chocolates for 3 things: anniversaries, to say sorry, and valentines day. In fact, DON'T EVEN DARE THINK ABOUT GETTING HER A BOUQUET! Those "I love you" are so generic, you might as well just say "You have nice breasts" because she's going to be just as confused the chocolates how she feels about you than if she was wondering if I was joking when I told a woman she has a delicious pair of hooters.

--------------------------------------------------------
Be creative! Anyone can say "I love you", but can they sing Creed "With Arms Wide Open"?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RZXaoaK8NI"]YouTube - Creed - With Arms Wide Open (live)[/ame]

Or can they tell how lovely she is IN FRENCH?

Or even just recite a french poem from memory
[url]http://www.short-love-poems.net/french-love-poems.html[/url]

Or with that gift giving idea, tell her during a time when you both are coming back from w/e. And tell her to close her eyes and tell her to imagine a field of flowers of all kinds, daisies, daffodils, dandelions, forget-me-nots. But tell her to imagine a image in the field, a rose. The rose that is so vivid in red that feels comforting just to look at. Now tell her to imagine her moving closer to the rose as she smells the lovely scent. Then take out your rose (small of course, 5-6 inches length preserved in a paper towel or plastic wrap) and tell her to open her eyes.

Those are all examples of how to "lovingly" tell her you love her.
-----------------------------------------------------
Of course, you could also have a party and play drinking games till your both drunk and then flirt with her. Helps ease the fear of being rejected for you and helps ease the fear of you both not being friends anymore for her. Then play around with her mentally with touching, flirting, and maybe even kisses and see how intimate you can get with her without her reacting negatively.

There is a way, but each path has more paths and those paths has more paths. Tread fast as if today is the last day you live, but tread carefully as if each choice you make will be the deciding factor.

[GrkScorp]

I'm going to get back to this thread later on tonight or tomorrow night.., hopefully..

Kills two birds with one stone.., for the OP and Zilla..

(note: do relax your eyes.., brace yourself for quite a bit of reading)

[Arrow]

I'm going to get back to this thread later on tonight or tomorrow night.., hopefully..

Kills two birds with one stone.., for the OP and Zilla..

(note: do relax your eyes.., brace yourself for quite a bit of reading)

I'm sure it'll be a good read nonetheless.

[Only-virgins]

but really the choice is yours and no one else can make that choice but you!

No way!!!...and I was so looking forward to making the choice for him

(note: do relax your eyes.., brace yourself for quite a bit of reading)

Don't forget that you need to eat and sleep.

[GrkScorp]

Righty right then.., Let's get to it shall we?

Before you start reading through all this now.., here's something to consider..

There is a world outside the one you know.., outside the one you live in.., and I'm not talking about planet earth.., I'm talking about your head.. Yes.., these posts are going to be dealing a lot with that notion.., and I want to make it brutally clear before we go any further..

People walk around their whole lives trying to reinvent the wheel.. "Aha! Look what I discovered!" only to find out that all that time they spent pondering over something.., there was someone else who already discovered it before them.. Be it in business.., social psychology.., or relationships.. Does it make them any smarter? Does it make them any dumber? No.. But what it does show them.., is that although they definitely have the ability to derive their own analysis of things.., there are people who have already done so..

This naturally raises much skepticism.. How can you trust someone else's analysis over your own? Maybe they were wrong! Maybe.. That's definitely a possibility.. But the other question is.., how can you trust your own analysis over someone else's? If you don't see the danger in that.., then perhaps that further proves that point..

For many people.., learning and listening are quite difficult.. They could be hearing the words that people say to them.., they could be doing very well on their exams.., but one thing that's certain is that people will always have their own opinions of things.. Their own two cents to add to something.. When presented with perfectly analyzed and digested information.., it's within human nature to take it and question it.., not because there's anything wrong with it.., but because the analysis or ideas were not produced by the person reading it (yes.., that's you)..

Maybe you're quite familiar with the kind of people I'm talking about.. Their eyes casually glance through a couple of words.., hoping to extract the "real meaning" in what is being said.., any "important" information.., as if the person spending their time to say or write it isn't trying to convey exactly that to them..

Now.., I'm not blaming the listener.. People are quite selfish.. Their time is always more valuable than anyone else's time.. They are more important than anyone besides themselves.., and they take priority over others.. With that being said.., people really will spend a considerable amount of energy into analyzing and digesting information.., but won't invest nearly as much time in trying to communicate that information to someone else.. The lazy approach is to stick to what is formal.., short.., to the point.., academic.. It sounds smart and sophisticated.., it makes people feel better about themselves.., but how much have you really learned from reading psychology or sociology?

They go on through life.., listening to already analyzed and digested information.., but fail to consider it.. They dismiss it as false because they consider it cliche' or simply humor.. It's not until much later in life where they realize that they too have reached the same conclusions.., but by that time.., it's usually too late.. But cliche's are vague both because they want to hold a general truth through personal interpretation.., and they also don't want to be too specific so as to be "wrong".. The shorter the catchier.., and the more ambiguous.., that harder it is to clearly call it "wrong".. The flip side of that is that it doesn't offer any solid analysis or evidence.., so it's only natural you go through life trying to pick it apart and understand it by yourself..

Just by virtue of posting.., you've made a statement.. You are aware of something.., and you don't like that something.. But instead of complaining.., the frustration you feel is because you want to change that something.., but don't know how..

That's good.., I'm not going to call it an issue or problem.., because it's not.., and you'll see quite clearly that I'm not just trying to be kind or sensitive.., You'll also get to see that I'm lacking quite sharply in the emotional sensitivity department.. Anyway.., In fact.., I'm going to go a step further and tell you why you've come to this point..

Are you ready?

You've come to this point.., because you haven't even started yet..

I don't blame you.. It's not because you're shy.., or because you're socially challenged.., or ugly.., or poor.., or lazy.., or even because your penis is average.. (see what I mean? don't take it personally.., it's my sense of humor).., Anyway.. In fact.., where you are right now has nothing to do with you.. Where you take yourself and your ability to change has everything to do with you.., but where you rest right now.., is completely beyond your control..

[GrkScorp]

I've always been fascinated by belief systems.. How from a very early age.., children learn.., religion.., politics.., morals.., what is good.., what is bad.., what is right.., what is wrong.., gender roles.., class roles.., etc.. The child grows up and has to play the role of the mature adult.., whose behavior is still largely governed by the system of beliefs it holds..

Unaware of the emotional framework that dictates the way we think and act.., what we believe is true or false.., what we feel is right and wrong.., what we consider real or impossible.., and ultimately how we perceive the people and world around us.. What's interesting is.., that the way we perceive the world around us.., will in effect be the world we end up living in..

Example?

- The chief punishment of a liar is that he/she cannot believe others.
- The curse of a cheater is that he/she will live in suspicion.
- Those most dishonest are also the most guarded.
- Manipulative minds find it hardest to trust.

This is an example of "projection".., and it results from a system of beliefs that is held as true (or false).., and having the ego project it as a reality that applies not just to "you".., but to everyone else and the world around you.. (because according to your ego.., you are right.., and since you are right.., then the whole world or any everyone else must also think in a way that you have deemed as real or right.., or else you would be wrong.., which that can never be)

A Republican thinking that Democrats are stupid.., A Democrat thinking that Republicans are stupid.. An Independent looking at the McCain/Palin ticket and trying to be fair and kind..

A man thinking that he must spend a fortune to have the mutual romantic interest of the woman he likes.., only to find her leave and then have himself feeling used and taken advantage of.. A man then forming a new belief system in his mind to rationalize what just happened and make sure he never gets used or taken advantage of again by refusing to ever get nice gifts or display grand romantic gestures once in a while.., only to find her leave again because she didn't feel loved or thought he was cheap..

A woman thinking that she must have sex to have the mutual romantic interest of the man she likes.., only to find him leave her and have herself feeling used and taken advantage of.. A woman then forming a new belief system in her mind to rationalize what just happened and make sure she never gets used or taken advantage of again by setting a time table of when she feels it's time to have sex.., only to find him leave again because he didn't feel she was interested or thought she was playing games or was a prude..

This process of "rationalization" is when the ego solicits the help of the logical section of our brain to cope with a problem and emotionally legitimize it.. The rationalization does not have to be accurate.., logical or realistic.. In fact.., it doesn't really have to comply much with reality at all! The rationalization may come into direct conflict with reality.., but it will nevertheless be accepted as valid and become stored into memory as part of the many beliefs one has adopted in his/her lifetime..

But that's as much of a solution to the problem as an ostrich sticking its head underground when a predator closes in on it.. These beliefs that run into direct conflict with reality.., that hold people back.., that prevent positive emotions or happiness.., that cause negative emotions such as loneliness and sadness.., are called "limiting beliefs".. The name isn't too creative.., they limit you from living how you are logically "able" to live.., they emotionally hold you back.., and in that sense.., your own personal collection of limiting beliefs accounts for your unique "mental prison"..

I know what you're thinking at this point.. "Ugh.., emotional bullsh*t.., I don't have feelings.., my brain doesn't work like every other human brain.., I'm special and unique".. The reason you feel that way.., is because when you were younger.., you were conditioned to feel that feelings are meaningless.., not true.., false.., something girls made up.., and not something that applied to you.. In a way.., you have your parents and society to thank for giving you such a head start on inferior emotional development and intelligence.. I forget which liberal feminist said it best.., "it is often said that girls mature faster than boys.., but that is because weeds grow much faster than grass" (this does not imply that you had lousy parents or that it's some conspiracy by feminists to emotionally handicap boys.., this is just simply the result of sticking to tradition and gender roles.., what parents and society define and perceive as feminine and masculine)

Now.., the first order of business.., is to understand how "not just your own mind".., but the human mind in general works.. This isn't theory.., this is how your fcukn' mind works! Your mind.., my mind.., everyone else's mind on this planet.. That's it.. It's not magic.., it's not unreal.., and it does have an end to it.. The body of knowledge is not endless.. In fact.., you'll find that as you learn more about how you and others function emotionally and think.., that the individual and the group are very simple and machine-like.. It might be scary.., and that's maybe why people usually have that initial "this can't be true" resistance to it.., but make no mistake about it.., this is how you work..

One part of the brain is active.., the other is off! None are on at the same time.., ever! This has been confirmed by independent studies looking at fMRI images of the brain when subjects where asked to preform different tasks. When emotions are on.., logic is off.. When logic is on.., emotions are off.. When you're sitting down for a calculus exam.., sure you're nervous.., but if you're still feeling anxious and nervous.., you're going to realize how difficult it is for you to solve that problem.., and it's not because you don't know how to solve it! Conversely.., if you're working on the problem and solving it.., you'll notice how hard it is for you to feel anxious or nervous..

An important feat about the way your brain is structured is in the way it makes sense of information.. Your emotions will have the final say (okay) in if you will take any kind of action or not.. In fact.., people with schizoid personality disorder show low levels of activity in the prefrontal cortex of their brain.., they are not able to give a strong emotional response to almost anything.., and naturally live quite anti-social and dispassionate lives as they are not really motivated to do much but think all day.. (no.., you don't have this.., they really need to update the language in the DSM-IV because the way they sound now makes it easy to group almost anyone into a category.. I guess it's the same with WebMD and people thinking they're going to die because their throat feels kind of dry)

The human mind.., not just yours.., but "every" human brain on this planet.., is an ego-driven.., self-centered.., thought processing neural network.. It takes in information.., interprets it as it applies to "you" (personally).., and then tries to make sense of it..

If I were to say something like..

- Most people on this forum are good.., except for one person we all know who is quite full of themselves and pretentious..

The most natural thing for your mind to do.., is to assume I have "you" in mind.. In reality.., it's pretty clear it was just an example.., yet that most natural urge kicked in.., trying to make sense of the information as it applies to you.. If you were an insecure individual.., your mind would have made reference to someone they didn't like on this forum and thought about them.. That would again be very self-centered of your brain.. It's quite an emotional bias to think that I really give a sh*t about you or who you don't like..

[GrkScorp]

But if your behavior is shaped by the way you are conditioned during your child and life development.., and if the way you process information is subjective to your personal view of the world as how it applies to you.., then what do you really know about (1) the world around you, (2) others, (3) yourself!

Why did I start off this way?

Because the first limiting belief I hope to crush.., is that you are no different than anyone else.. Yup.., that's right.. Me.., you.., and everyone else is pretty much on the same boat.. We're not exactly the same.., we do have different experiences.., but make no mistake about it.., we're all the same animal..

Why is that at all important?

According to Machiavelli, "Wise men say, and not without reason, that whoever wishes to foresee the future must consult the past; for human events ever resemble those of proceeding times. This arises from the fact that they are produced by men who have been, and ever will be, animated by the same passions, and thus they must necessarily have the same results."

I have to say.., without the use of modern day applied mathematics and statistical methods.., and without the aid of fMRI technology and research in behavioral economics.., the man was a genius to say what he said at the time he said it.. Among other famous models to negotiators are of course.., Sherlock Holmes..

As he remarks to Dr. Watson.., "While the individual man in an insoluble puzzle, in the aggregate, he becomes a mathematical certainty. You can never foretell what any one man will do, but you can always predict with precision what an average number of men will be up to. Individuals vary, but percentages remain constant."

For some reason.., I'm getting flashbacks from learning about Brownian motion.., anyway.. Economics attempts to study many things.., namely.., resource allocation and utility.., but more importantly.., choice and preferences.. It does so in the aggregate.. Individual choice and preference is meaningless.., but in a market of many such people.., it can determine quantity produced.., quantity demanded.., quantity sold.., and the price that will ultimately clear the market.. For decades.., economists believed what Mr. Holmes did.., that the individual is a puzzle.. In the last decade.., they've reconsidered that view..

If the individual is composed of his nature and his experiences.., and we know the nature of the animal with unforgiving accuracy and precision.., then given the experiences.., to where remains the puzzle of this individual?

There is no puzzle.. Only a matter of time until one has enough interest or motivation to pick the individual apart.., test how they react.., what actions and choices they take.., gauge for revealed preferences.., and the individual is reduced down to a matrix.., a function.., whose behavior can be predicted with such shocking accuracy it would have him leaving exposed.., naked.., and vulnerable..

Vulnerable? Yes.., because it's valuable information to know how we function.., what input effects us emotionally and causes us to have feelings and thoughts that ultimately translate to actions.. Advertising and marketing companies dump some serious money into neuromarketing research every year.. So there's no reason to go ahead and research what you could easily get from free-riding..

[GrkScorp]

Thought systems:



A formal model representing what the typical high school girl has already discovered by the age of 16.. (we'll get to "why" later on)

It's general.., but the important distinction to be made is that testosterone (you know.., the "other" man-juice).., inhibits the pathway from input to your emotional process during development.. That means that you are simply less effected (as a guy) by your emotional process.. You are more likely to process information through your logical process.. No.., it doesn't make you "smarter".., because your logical process could be limited.., but what it also doesn't make you is.., emotionally aware..

- Who cares what I wear?
- Who cares how I smell?
- Who cares if I haven't brushed my teeth?
- Who cares if I'm wearing the same shirt and pants?
- Who cares that I'm wearing them for the 5th day in a row?
- Who cares that I don't work out?
- Who cares that I'm out of shape?
- Who cares that I scratch my crotch in public?
- Who cares what I said to my boss?
- Who cares how dry my lips are?
- Who cares how my skin feels or looks?

Well.., do you remember that part about "projection"? This is a good time to see it in action.. Just because "you" don't care.., doesn't mean that other people don't care.. Sure.., you don't care if Joe the plumber comes in with his work-shirt or an Italian suit.. Shoes? You don't give a rat's ass what shoes he's wearing! They're all black to you anyway!

We'll get back to that later.., the more important thing to note is how you develop as a boy.., as opposed to a girl..

Your entire sense of worth and self-esteem.., comes from your ability to "actually" preform.. From things you "actually" accomplish and "actually" do.. No male group will make you into a leader if you can't prove yourself and get things done.. You can't expect to command the respect of other men if you are not the source of some value..

Unfortunately.., in high school.., academic or intellectual value is meaningless.. This value is based on other things.., like sports.., kicking people's ass.., and setting the new record on how fast you were able to bed the entire cheerleading squad.. For reasons you're not quite aware of.., you notice the formation of social circles.. That's right.., multiple groups.., one dominant.., the rest inferior.. Your goal as a child is to find yourself as part of the dominant group.. You envy the leader.., but your guilty pleasure is to try and be like him..

All you try and do.., for the rest of your life.., is find yourself in that dominant circle.., and hopefully.., if not be the leader of that group.., at least be friends with the leader of that group.. You sense of self-worth depends on what you accomplish! It's driven by logic.., and in return.., logic tries to get you what you want.. Academic success? Your ability to analyze and critically think will put you ahead of the competition.. Educational success.., financial success.., social success.. Unless you have some actual accomplishments for yourself.., you don't feel that sense of being important or valuable..

On the other hand.., who gives a sh*t about you anyway? Let's escape your male framework for a second.., and pretend you grew up in a female body.. Let's pretend that the emotional process took priority.. Can you imagine what that would be like? Can you imagine how it would feel like to have to worry about what you wear.., how you smell.., how you look.., how people think about you.., what people say about you? Just give that some thought..

As you think about that now.., try and see yourself.., as a girl.., interacting with other girls.. You can already see what's going to happen.., can't you? Dominance is the name of the game.., completely ego-driven.., other girls are looking for social dominance.. But women don't compete through actual accomplishments (unless you're talking about who they marry).., they try and establish social dominance through group psychology.. They work the group.., and in the case of high school.., other girls.. They informally understand thought systems.., and because they feel things so strongly.., and are emotionally aware.., they can be quite vicious towards each other in the quest for social dominance.. "Mean girls" are women who grasp an understanding of emotions quicker than others.., and use that understanding as a tool to gain that dominance..

They work the group.. Strategically using flattery on women who are important to them.., and then destroying the image and reputation of those very same women behind their back.. They try and cause drama or insult in order to stand out as superior.. Female sociopaths outnumber male sociopaths by 17:1! It's not long until other girls in other social circles become quite aware of the two-faced nature of these women.. Girls have the advantage and luxury.., as children.., to come to realize that people are not always genuine.. Boys don't become aware of that until much later in life! (we'll talk about that much later.., but it's a very important point to keep in mind) They're able to recognize how fake some girls are.., and to protect themselves.., develop a sense of female diplomacy..

[GrkScorp]

But while the child development of girls may naturally bestow upon them a greater understanding of social psychology and higher emotional intelligence.., these crafts and tools have been used by businessmen and leaders for centuries.. Not diplomacy.., that's not what I'm talking about.. I'm talking about the art and science of.., "negotiation"

The grand-daddy of negotiation is Machiavelli.. He's "the end justifies the means" guy.. His view on negotiation was that it was necessary to avoid bargaining.. "Bargaining can only take place between complete equals. This is quite a rare phenomenon to observe in nature. One will always enjoy the sleigh of hand. He who has more power can always tip the scales in his favor. The weaker force has no choice but to comply. But an alternative to this abuse of power is the use of persuasion. To negotiate is to persuade, and if necessary, to manipulate. If we can bargain to avoid a battle, we can surely negotiate to avoid bargaining."

What did he mean by that?

I'll give you a personal example.. A client of mine owned a business.. His landlord promised him a lease.., so he continued to pay rent while expecting to sign a new lease in the near future.. The landlord had actually sold the building to someone else.., and had lied to my client so that the new owner could get the building without any existing lease and could evict my client.. So this @sshole gives our office a call.. (bad move on his part.., lawyers are among the most skilled negotiators.., there's a reason most politicians are attorneys.., you don't call up to argue with someone's attorney if you're an uneducated and unskilled Joe Shmoe)

Him: I'm calling to notify you that I'm the new owner..
Me: Well.., it's not me you should be notifying.., but my client.., and it has to be in writing..
Him: Tell him I want $18,000 a month from now on..
Me: Would you like to negotiate a one or two year lease?
Him: No lease! I want him to start paying $18,000 a month..
Me: I'm sorry.., but he's a registered broker/dealer.., if he doesn't have a lease.., he can't legally operate his business..
Him: No lease! Do you know who I am? If he doesn't pay.., you're both going to regret it! You have one week to pay.., or else all your stuff is out on the street..
Me: Is this your first building Sir?
Him: I'm in this business for 30 years kid! I suggest he either pays.., or he has a week to get his stuff and move out!
Me: Well.., after 30 years.., you should know that the average rent in the area.., as of now.., as in before you start seeing business closing and empty stores on every block.., is about $15,000 for the moment.. You should also know that my client is willing to pay.., but he is unable to pay if he has no lease.., which means you can't evict him for non-payment.., so you'll have to start a hold-over procedure.. It's the 4th of the month.., so even if you serve him today.., he gets to stay there free for the month of September and October until he appears in court.. When he appears in court.., maybe we won't be representing him anymore and he'll have to ask for an adjurnment until he finds an attorney to represent him.. In which case.., you'll have to reschedule for next month.. And maybe the next time you come to court.., you'll discover that you served the notice to the wrong person.., so the judge might determine that the notice was not properly served.., and you'll have to find the proper owner.. So far we're at December and he still not paying rent and you still don't have him out.. Then the new owner will be scheduled to show up in January.. In January.., he might request an adjurnment because he needs some time to find an attorney.. By February.., when businesses are struggling to stay alive and landlords are fighting to prevent their stores from being vacant.., the judge will at worst case grant him 30 days to move out.. After the 30 days come.., you'll have to issue an additional notice to him and petition the court to request the marshal to take him out.. Which means.., best case scenario for you.., you won't be collecting rent until April if you choose to go ahead the way you're going..
Him: Are you trying to threaten me?
Me: Me? No! I'm wondering if you'll need an attorney to represent you in all those times you'll have to show up in court from now until then..
Him: Listen..
Me: Listen.., let me tell you something.. Honestly.., you're in the business of renting.., my client is in the business of managing investments.., and I'm in the business of taking money from both of you when you both can't talk about things like civilized people.. If you want to act like a tough guy.., I'm more than happy to see you in court.. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if I didn't love it.. But let's get one thing clear.. He can stay in there for over 6 months.., without paying you rent.., and you might even need to pay his legal fees.., while you have a mortgage to pay.., along with your own legal expenses.., all while not collecting a dollar from him.. Do you seriously want to go ahead and continue this way.., or do you want to maybe think things over a little bit more first?

He hung up the phone on me.., because older people.., especially 50+ year old men find it hard on their ego when they get their ass handed to them by someone half their age.. But as of November 1st.., there's a 10 year lease in place between my client and that @sshole..

That's an example of bargaining.., and in that case.., (at least in the short-term).., my client held more bargaining power.. There was no need to negotiate.. There was nothing to negotiate about.. I found it hilarious he had the nerve to call me and try to threaten my client by acting tough.. He had everything to lose.., and my client could just sit there for free for 6 months.. If he didn't want things to be that way.., then all my client was asking for was a lease! Not even a reduction in the rent! Really nice guy..

But in the absence of any substantial bargaining power.., negotiation takes place.. Negotiation is a LONG process.. Basically.., both sides have something to gain and something to lose.. They want to come to some kind of agreement.., and they want it to be fair.. They have to resist the temptation to try and get the better side of the transaction.., but at the same time.., be sure that the other side is not trying to take advantage of them.. During a genuine negotiation.., the word that drives things forward is.., "compromise".. We all want to get everything in return for nothing.. Get get get.., but never give.. That's natural.. But it's not realistic.. And it's not realistic because we're not the only person involved! If that's what we both want.., then it's pretty obvious that it's impossible we're both satisfied! Either no exchange takes place.., one party benefits at the expense of an other.., OR.., both parties give and take equally..

[GrkScorp]

I know what you're thinking.. (I don't give a sh*t about this stuff! Get to the REAL stuff already!).. I hate to break it to you.., but THIS IS THE REAL STUFF!!

The modern-day grand-daddy of negotiation is Gerard I. Nierenberg

Among many of his models and techniques.., the two most powerful are the Machiavelli personality types.., and the Layers to Truth model..

I'll start off with the Layers to Truth model:

The best way to understand this model.., is to watch a lot of movies and television.. After you understand this model.., you won't be able to watch movies or TV the same way again.., much less interact or see people the same way again.. Your whole world will change right before your eyes as you start to become aware of your new sense of emotional clarity..

There are basically 3 "Layers" to all people..

- How people "appear" to be (external)
- How people "think" (internal - conscious)
- How people "actually" are (internal - unconscious)

The job of an actress.., is to get into "character".. She has to convince herself that she is the role she wants to play.. If she wants to cry.., she has to get herself to feel sad.. If she wants to seem upset.., she has to awaken that sad emotion inside of her.. If she wants to seem happy or sexually interested in an other actor.., she has to try really hard to pretend that she actually is.. Her thoughts will naturally seep into the way she "appears" to be externally to others..

When you watch her performance.., it's as if it's real! For all you care.., she's doing such a great job of acting.., that you start to believe she's really feeling the way she is.., she's really reacting the way she is.., that her appearance is real.., that what caused it is real.., and that there is an actual plot unfolding in front of you.. She does such a great job.., that you're able to make sense of the movie.., her performance allows you.., the viewer.., to feel a certain way.. It maybe causes you to feel happy.., sad.., laugh.., afraid.., angry.., etc.. You never stop to think.., as you're watching her.., that what's going on.., is just an act!

And that's because most people don't! Most people don't think that way.. Information comes at them so fast.., in order to be able to process all of it on time.., they have to accept it as true.., they have to take what they see as a given.. In reality.., how people "appear" to be.., can be quite different from what they are "thinking"!

That brings us to the Machiavelli personality types:

- Dishonest/Dishonest (the @sshole)
- Dishonest/Honest (the tough guy)
- Honest/Dishonest (the deceiver)
- Honest/Honest (the naive child)

In every negotiation.., the person you are interacting with.., will fall into one of the four different types.. Their type will account for the gap between how they "appear" to be.., and how they are really "thinking"..

- D/D: Like Captain Jack Sparrow said.., "I'm always honest about my dishonesty.., it's the honest ones you can't trust".. In fact.., people like this are pretty transparent.. They're perfectly clear about what they want.., even if it's not morally or socially acceptable or politically correct.. They feel no shame.., and no need to try and cover up or lie about their true motives.. These are the guys who will kick your ass at the drop of a hat if that's what they feel like doing.., or guys and girls who will go to strip clubs and let it be known quite clearly that they're will someone just because of sex or money.. They don't want to waste their time.., so if you can't handle it.., you can move along and go somewhere else..
- D/H: These types put up a strong front.., to cover up a vulnerable inside.. They don't enjoy negotiating.., but like to appear as if they're no-nonsense type people.. They try their best to mimic the behaviors of D/D types.., but subtle cues and hints (slips) give them away.. They are genuinely honest people.., but have either been betrayed.., hurt.., or manipulated in the past.. Even if they haven't experienced any of this.., simply by being aware or knowing someone close to them who has is enough to make them feel defensive and guarded..
- H/D: I like to think of these people as eBay scammers.. "The 10 top secrets to weight loss you can't afford to miss! Learn how to get into the body of your dreams now! The 3 biggest mistakes people make when trying to lose that unattractive excess body fat!" They know which buttons to hit.., they know how to persuade and seduce you.., how to get you excited.., or unhappy.. They know how to get you to the emotional state they want you to be.., all while earning your trust.. Not because they want to help you.., or because they're nice people.., but because they want something from you.. (your money.., marriage.., military service.., sex.., a job.., social networking.., etc)
- H/H: Unlike D/Ds who think everyone is dishonest.., H/Hs like to believe that everyone is genuinely a good person and that most people.., if not all.., are good.. The reason I like to think of them as naive.., is because they exhibit those same innocent and pure childlike qualities you find in.., well.., children.. Usually these are people that come from a family with strong moral values.., conservative upbringing.., or sheltered childhood.. Their lack of exposure to the world has reduced the risk (of being the victim of dishonesty) they've experienced.. So they believe that ALL people really are how they appear to be externally.. They find it difficult to accept or even understand the notion of someone not "thinking" the same way they "appear".. When we say "there's a sucker born every minute".., we're talking about these kinds of people..

[GrkScorp]

I know what you're thinking

See? There's a reason I chose to get into negotiation models.. And there's a reason I said what I said in the very beginning.., hopefully now you understand what I mean when I said:

"You've come to this point.., because you haven't even started yet.. Where you are right now has nothing to do with you.."

Besides being on this forum.., you are where you are now.., because you're a genuine H/H.., that's right.., lacking "exposure" and therefore substantial experience.. It's not my goal to taint you.., to take something so pure and corrupt it.. I personally believe that we start off as children.., and end up back as children again.. We start off as an H/H.., and ultimately end up there once again.. Some sooner than others..

All this time.., you've gone through life.., as a boy.., as an innocent and naive boy.., caught up in a childlike romantic fantasy.. When you found someone you wanted to share that fantasy with.., maybe something was holding you back.., and maybe you didn't quite get the reaction you were hoping for.., but unable to understand why.. (we'll get to both of those)

Here is how men and women are structured in terms of negotiation:

- Friendship: Yup.., that's right.. Friendship.. You know those @ssholes who say that friendship can't exist between men and women? Well.., that's why they're @ssholes.. Because that's the kind of respect they have towards the opposite sex.. Friendships between men and women can exist the same way it can between the same sex.. Women are like guys.., just as interesting.., if not more.., just as cool and fun to hang out with.. Men who can't see women as just friends have the most serious road-blocks to dating and relationships.. They consider and see every woman as a potential mating option.., and if she disqualifies.., they don't talk to her.. If she qualifies.., they try and talk to her and can't see her as a friend.. They have to be in a relationship with her.., her and every other woman that qualifies.. You can see how this is a recipe for guys to be nervous around women.. For the most part.., women make much better friends than guys do.. Unless you're friends with players.., most men are emotionally retarded and uninteresting.. Even between players vs. women.., women are just nicer.. (at least nice women.., because make no mistake about it.., one reason women prefer guy friends is so they don't have to deal with some serious b*tchy or vicious women)

- The market for sex: It's not necessarily the next level up from friendship.., it's just a different kind of exchange that exists.. He's hot.., she's hot.., they want each other.., they have sex.. End of story.., everyone is happy.. It's a pretty simple negotiation.., I'm a guy.., and on the market for sex.., I'm a 9.., you're a girl.., and on the market for sex.., you're a 9.., wham bam thank you mam.. All else constant.., (nobody finds out.., no guilt from being labeled a whore.., not feeling slutty.., not factoring in the thrill or excitement.., etc).. If there's a 10 and a 7.., the transaction doesn't take place.., at least not in this marketplace..

- The market for dating: The purpose of dating.., is to find someone you like.., be in a relationship together.., see if you love each other.., and when you're eventually ready.., start moving in together.., propose.., get married.., start a family.., raise the kids.., grow old together.., eventually.. But the market for dating is ultimately a doorway to all of that.. Two people come together.., meet.., and size each other up.., both having different expectations and standards.. Is he cute? Is she ugly? What kind of job does he have? Is she a bimbo? What's his family like? I hope her mother isn't fat or ugly.. Anyway.., the point is.., they are motivated to engage in this kind of transaction.., if it makes sense to do so.. The tools available in this kind of negotiation are (attraction "sexual value".., comfort & connection "emotional value".., stability & wealth "financial value")