at my wit's end

[IndiReloaded]

I think guys think they can put some initial investment into a relationship and it will just keep going, all on it's own. I don't know why they think this. Men understand that things like cars and lawns have to be maintained, but he's treating your marriage like Astroturf instead. No maintenance.

Invisible, I suggest you start insisting on "date night" at the very least.

Invisible, I'm going to suggest you read Gigas posts again carefully. She's saying things you might not like, but is essentially correct. I agree w/her.

I also agree w/Mish & his comment that this is very common.

That doesn't solve your problem, of course, just puts it in some perspective.

1. Counselling a good idea to get issues out.

2. Get your husband this book: [url]http://lds.about.com/od/productreviews/gr/howtodatewife.htm[/url]

3. Start organizing dates. Every week. You're kids are grownup/away from the house so you have NO excuse not to do this. It will feel awkward at first. You'll resent having to do all the initial leg work. Do it anyway.

Lesson learned, all you young'uns out there, thinking you're doing yourselves a favor being the high-performance, low-maintenance girlfriend. Wrong. You're setting yourself up for this situation.

LOL. Yes, I had to learn this. Its either low performance, low maintenance (& STFU). Or high-perf, high-maint. The other combos don't work.

Try the above for a year. If all else fails, mbe you should consider going out w/friends. Even male friends. Ask your husband if he minds. Yes, its shocking I would suggest this, but at some point you have to decide if being married means being dead. He can't be a hypocrite & expect you to be as boring & disinterested in life as he might want to be. Hopefully, it will never come to that, tho. Good luck.

[IndiReloaded]

Like the story about two frogs in a bucket of cream. The frog that stopped trying to get out drowned, while the one that didn't churned cream into butter and was able to escape.

I love this 'never quit' metaphor. Thanks Mish.

[Mish]

You're welcome Indi


I just wanted to add my personal belief that the "date nights" are probably not going to work in the current context.

How is going to be motivated to do a date night to impress you if he's not even motivated to look for a solution to the problem?

The real solution to this problem will come from the realm of communication and understanding. How well do you know your husband invisible? Do you know him well enough to know his inner most desires his dreams and aspirations? Do you know which ones are and which ones are not being met? Could you fulfill the one's that aren't?

This is going to be a very personal and deep matter which will require much thought, action and understanding. There will be no "quick" solution. The real solution will come when both of you are on the same level of understanding of each other. When both of you are synergistic in your actions and in trying to find solutions. You need to find a way to get the two of you onto that level. At least a level of mutual respect, this is a good start and ground from which other remedies can be followed.

[IndiReloaded]

You're welcome Indi


I just wanted to add my personal belief that the "date nights" are probably not going to work in the current context.

How is going to be motivated to do a date night to impress you if he's not even motivated to look for a solution to the problem?

I'm going to stick my head back in & claim the experience card on this one.

I'm not saying Date Night will work longterm, but I'm guessing that her hubby is all Talked Out right now.

Sometimes, you gotta break out of the negative cycle and just do something.

Ever heard that quote about the Motivation Trap? Its the idea that most ppl get it backwards. I'm betting its new to you, so here it is:

The whole idea of motivation is a trap. Forget motivation. Just do it. Exercise, lose weight, test your blood sugar, or whatever. Do it without motivation. And then, guess what? After you start doing the thing, that's when the motivation comes and makes it easy for you to keep on doing it.

Go out w/your husband. Keep the outings short & painless for him. Don't make him think too hard about them at first. Establish some new routines that involve positive interaction. Keep your expectations low at first. Remember, he used to be fun & funny once, remember? So, try & find that again. Then see if you can't slowly work on the issues that are concerning you. Given a bit of positive energy, he'll be more receptive, I'm hoping.

If that fails after trying hard for a year, you may be looking at having to split. Good luck.

[Mish]

I'm going to stick my head back in & claim the experience card on this one.

I'm not saying Date Night will work longterm, but I'm guessing that her hubby is all Talked Out right now.

Sometimes, you gotta break out of the negative cycle and just do something.

That's the thing Indi, how and why would he be doing that when he's so busy watching a much more fun TV?

There is a motivation in everything we do. She could perhaps hit him over the head with a shovel and drag him on a date, but apart from that I don't see how he is going to just go for it? There seems to be a big breakdown not only in communication but any kind of interaction between the two. So once again it comes back to motivation, what motivates him to watch TV over spending time with his wife? What is he missing? If she can fill that hole I think they can start moving in the right direction.

[Gigabitch]

Date night would be a time set aside where he had to turn off the Goddamned TV, that's why it would be a good thing.

I'm going to go to the extreme and say that I think TV is a huge contributor to the sad state of the modern family. TV sucks.

[IndiReloaded]

Uh huh. We don't watch TV in our house, FYI.

Mish, the OP will need to confirm this, but I suspect her husband isn't so much motivated to watch tv as he is simply 'zoning out' b/c its easy to do. I can't believe you don't know exactly what I mean. All guys I know do it. You probably just do it w/the current issue of the Economist or a newspaper or something.

[Mish]

The issue is not about the TV, the issue is with the lack of motivation to pursue an interest with a spouse.

Imo I don't think they will be able to go on a date night in the current state of their relationship. He is not going to do it. And if he doesn't it doesn't mean all is lost.

It's like saying, if someone is having problems walking, yup start running and your problems will be fixed.


Okay, I will give yous an example which is metaphoric to this situation:

I have two friend co-workers, a guy and a girl. We had been friends for awhile. I equally enjoyed spending time with them. I still spend a lot of time with the guy. But at some point the girl started acting in an unfriendly manner to me. I put up with it for awhile and then I simply lost my respect for her as a friend an as a person. I decided not to confront her on this because I didn't want her to have an unpleasant working experience, but every time I see her I am cold and distant. I pretend to be friends, but in reality I'm the furthest from it. I don't talk to her and if she touches me with her hand I feel like breaking it off at the wrist. It's not that I don't like talking to her or spending time with her, she is a great and interesting person, I just lost all my respect for her and I feel bitter towards her. Perhaps if there was a way for my respect for her to be restored I can start making ground back to being a friend. But UNTIL then, no amount of us spending time together is going to fix our friendship.

[gHEXjt]

It sounds to me like he suffers from depression. Second, he's probably an alcoholic, if he's sitting around drinking beer every night and all weekend. The alcoholism, obviously, will make the depression even worse. His actions are clearly causing you to be depressed (thinking about suicide). You need to get out, unfortunately, it's the only way for you to start feeling better.

[vashti]

I agree that it sounds like he may have alcohol issues. I would also like to point out that your expectations may be unrealistic considering how long you've been married, especially if he has alcohol issues (which BTW, would also explain the lack of a sex life). I say this because you are comparing a man who has been married for 12+ years to a man who was once a newlywed. That isn't realistic. I bet he thinks you are a nag. I may have missed it, but did you say you have other interests that keep you busy? You may be depending too heavily on him to "fill you up".

[sine24]

very insightful Mishanya! i've never heard of the story about the two frogs..but im glad i have now.

[ExpoNovak]

::cracks knuckles::

Here's your menput.

You aren't exciting anymore. We like the allure of the new (as I'm sure that you ladies do as well) but he's got you and you don't seem to be going anywhere. As a matter of fact, life is normal to him and with all of your needing to "talk" about his behavior it genuinely appears to him as if you are causing problems because in his mind there are none. Everything is content. He does not understand the need for marriage counseling if HE isn't angry or HE doesn't feel neglected and HIS basic needs are being met.

You can try wild and crazy techniques such as cleaning house naked or bringing some new things into the bedroom. When all else fails, stop meeting his needs. Stop cooking. Wake him up. That is what this comes down to, he's fallen into dormant stage (and we will ALL do this if allowed to) and must be explosively removed from it. Sometimes that takes something drastic like you packing your things and leaving and us finally taking inventory of all you brought to the picture and how you enriched our lives. I personally don't think counseling is going to help you much because while the counselor sits there and says "Mr. X, communication is vital to the health of...." he's thinking about a peanut butter sandwich becasue he doesn't see how the counseling is necessary.

If you don't do something drastic, these things will continue and merely talking it out with him is not going to work. Obviously, this is doing NOTHING. But don't commit suicide. That's a little too drastic. Best of luck to you.

[ExpoNovak]

Oh, and I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not, but have you considered the fact that your husband may be depressed? That would explain his lack of interest in virtually everything. Some good medication and his behavior may very well improve.

[Gigabitch]

Looks like the OP is gone. Apparently she "can't be bothered" to check her thread any more.

[IndiReloaded]

When all else fails, stop meeting his needs. Stop cooking. Wake him up. That is what this comes down to, he's fallen into dormant stage (and we will ALL do this if allowed to) and must be explosively removed from it. Sometimes that takes something drastic like you packing your things and leaving and us finally taking inventory of all you brought to the picture and how you enriched our lives. I personally don't think counseling is going to help you much because while the counselor sits there and says "Mr. X, communication is vital to the health of...." he's thinking about a peanut butter sandwich becasue he doesn't see how the counseling is necessary.

This makes a lot of sense.