can she expect that from me?

[carl1222]

Try doing what she ASKED you to do? Might be a good start....

bobb is right ... doing what is important to HER is the first step to realigning your priorities. Sure, it sucks and is embarrassing ... but what you did sucks and is embarrassing to her as well.

Carl.

[Mish]

But does it make sense when I lower my self-esteem even more by putting myself in such a bad spot, like facing this woman and kind of 'outing' myself? My wife said confessing weaknesses means strength to her.. I'm not sure there

Then just forget about your wife. Keep your self esteem and be single. I think that might be a better option for you. Even though you are married, I don't think you are ready for marriage.

[DanPBG]

I feel an emptiness and loneliness.I feel as if I have no control over my life. I can't handle my lack of confidence. I'm hiding it, and I'm doing a very good job of it. I also know that I've learned from my improper behavior.I don't know the origin of my improprieties. But I can see what it spawned. I see parts of my conscious thoughts that led to the demise/breakdown of my morality. The scope of my problems are very broad and deep. There's no getting around this fact. What can I do? What's left? I feel like without my wife I won't have the strength to bring some structure into my life, but she won't return without me doing something that requires strength. Its like a vicious cycle.

[Aeradalia]

I feel an emptiness and loneliness.I feel as if I have no control over my life.

Feelings cannot tell you what's really there.. they are subjective not objective. Take the time to gain perspective on your life, and you'll realize that you are allowing yourself to be held prisoner by your own emotions --- not that life is 'out to get you.'

I can't handle my lack of confidence. I'm hiding it, and I'm doing a very good job of it.

Of course you can handle your lack of confidence... it's just easier to cover it up and not deal with it. This is a short-sighted approach to a long-term problem. It might be time to do the dirty work, and figure out your reasons for lack of confidence and emotional laziness.

I also know that I've learned from my improper behavior.I don't know the origin of my improprieties. But I can see what it spawned. I see parts of my conscious thoughts that led to the demise/breakdown of my morality.

You have merely observed things about yourself, but have yet to 'connect the dots.' Really, there hasn't been much learned at all. More effort will be required on your part. Realizing this is bad isn't good enough... you need to know WHY it is bad.

The scope of my problems are very broad and deep. There's no getting around this fact.

Your problems are not broad and deep... they are very small in fact. Rather, emotional laziness has allowed a tiny problem to escalate into something far more destructive. It's time for damage control.

What can I do? What's left?

You can be serious about your approach and take the time to search for the reasons you feel lack of confidence, why you feel you need the affections of other women, and why you feel it is necessary to disrespect your wife.

I feel like without my wife I won't have the strength to bring some structure into my life, but she won't return without me doing something that requires strength. Its like a vicious cycle.

Your wife is not responsible for the structure in your life... YOU are. Your LIFE is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Just as your EMOTIONS and DIRECTION in LIFE are YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. You cannot blame your wife for failing to give structure to your life, or blame 'out of control emotions' for your emotional infidelity. Ultimately, you are in control of how you express your feelings and for your actions --- so you are responsible for these things.

[DanPBG]

Thanks a lot that you took the time to respond. Sounds like there is a lot of work to do, to figure out about myself, my motivations , to find ways to get out of the destructive patterns.
Back to my original question: I need to be honest.I still feel like sneaking out of what she expects me to do.. to apologize in front of this woman. Its so embarrassing. I can't picture myself speaking two sentences at once. I see myself mumbling , messing it up.That cannot be the goal.I can already feel it coming up. Its my stragedy of avoidance.Its so strong. In situations like this I'm going to downplay everything and end up in denial. What can I do about it? Its nothing that can wait, I guess.My wife left me already before, when I had this first attraction for another woman. She only came back because I swore and promised it wouldn't happen one more time. I know I broke my promises, and I lied a lot.I know that what I've done is immeasurable and can't be undone.

[The_bobb]

Look man, as i see it. You got 2 options...

Do what she wants you to do, and just get it over with and try to heal, and learn.

OR

Don't do it, your wife WILL hate you for it, and if she gets back with you (unlikely) she'll never fully trust you again. In which case, it would be EASIER (since you like that approach) to just end it. And by "end it" i mean you apologize to your wife and make SURE she doesn't think it's her fault.... Cuz it's not.

Your call bud, make it a good one.

[IndiReloaded]

Then just forget about your wife. Keep your self esteem and be single. I think that might be a better option for you. Even though you are married, I don't think you are ready for marriage.

Look man, as i see it. You got 2 options...

Do what she wants you to do, and just get it over with and try to heal, and learn.

OR

Don't do it, your wife WILL hate you for it, and if she gets back with you (unlikely) she'll never fully trust you again. In which case, it would be EASIER (since you like that approach) to just end it. And by "end it" i mean you apologize to your wife and make SURE she doesn't think it's her fault.... Cuz it's not.

Your call bud, make it a good one.

You haven't made amends yet??

The longer you leave it, the less likely she is to come back.

Oh, and I agree with both of these^ comments, except to add that by not making a sincere apology EVEN if she never comes back, you won't preserve your self-esteem. That's about as deep in the negative esteem hole one can dig oneself. It will eat at you, and affect any future relationships. Apologies have to be b/c you think its right and you want to make amends for the harm caused. Not b/c you think you can get something out of it.

Shape up or ship out, Dan. Good luck.

[DanPBG]

You haven't made amends yet??

No, I haven't yet. I don't know what I'm missing. I do believe that I love my wife. I DO love her!
The one emotion that I can't seem to muster is remorse. I can't feel. I don't realize the magnitude of my behavior. But I'm constantly thinking about this side of me.I just want to keep these whimsical thoughts that all is ok. I realize it's a bit ignorant. Then again I think am I not worth forgiveness? Wrongdoing versus Humanity.Am I that evil that I can't be rehabilitated?
My wife and I know what I did. What am I supposed to do when we both are aware of what I've done? I have elaborated about the ugly situations that I have created. That's what is frustrating me. I know you're thinking what reasons I have to be frustrated. I AM! I've been good.
At the other hand I know that repetition shows that a person hasn't comprehended what has happened. Or that person is just careless. I have been very careless and reckless. I know that.I was greedy and self-absorbed. This was the pattern that repeated itself over and over. I was only worried about how all things affected me and disregarded her needs and wishes.
I masked my weakness by asserting a perceived strength. That would make me feel more confident about myself. This quick and temporary 'fix' gave me a feeling of self-confidence in me. The negative impact for my relationship was enormous. It took away everything positive that could have or did develop. Everything. But once I was on this track I couldn't be slowed down or stopped. I was very subtle and sneaky.I channeled my energies toward my selfish goal and that was to feel good about myself at her expense.
All I want is for her to begin to trust me, even a little. That's all I want. I know exactly what I did was wrong. Shame and solitude grow like a cancer. My desire is to cut them out. I always get caught and then run and hide.
But still, there is another side of me that just wants the problems I created to go away without any input. I know I want everything for nothing. I can't help it. Am I disconnected from reality? There are so many contradictions from me.

[Aeradalia]

Simple concept to life... whatever you send out is what you will get back. If you are selfish and self-absorbed, then those around you will be forced to have to behave in a similar way to you. Such as your wife... she can not give any more of herself to you without risking destruction of her self... in essence your self-centeredness has forced her self-preservation of her heart.

If you want good things from life... you will have to do good things. You can start by being selfless and apologizing --- regardless of how YOU feel about it. Just do it because you know it will make your wife feel better.

Love is suppose to involve give and take... and lately it's just been you taking. What have you given back to her? Was it truly of equal value to what she has given you? Can you honestly say that it was? Have you felt that she has grown as a person since she's been with you? Have you grown as a person since you've been with her? Has being with each other really helped either of you at all? Because if it hasn't, then one or both of you aren't pulling your weight in the relationship.

Love is not about just feeling... it's also about doing.. it's about a lot of work --- work that you do because you love and care about the person you are with. They should feel the same way about you too. So that all the work you put into the relationship is replenished by your partner's work too.

If you cannot handle the responsibility of a marriage... then maybe you aren't ready for it yet. Maybe time alone is exactly what you need. Because your wife (or anyone else for that matter) cannot sort out your priorities for you... or teach you how to be responsible in a marriage. These are things you will have to learn when you are ready and willing.

[IndiReloaded]

No, I haven't yet. I don't know what I'm missing. I do believe that I love my wife. I DO love her!
The one emotion that I can't seem to muster is remorse. I can't feel. I don't realize the magnitude of my behavior. But I'm constantly thinking about this side of me.I just want to keep these whimsical thoughts that all is ok. I realize it's a bit ignorant. Then again I think am I not worth forgiveness? Wrongdoing versus Humanity.Am I that evil that I can't be rehabilitated?
My wife and I know what I did. What am I supposed to do when we both are aware of what I've done? I have elaborated about the ugly situations that I have created. That's what is frustrating me. I know you're thinking what reasons I have to be frustrated. I AM! I've been good.
At the other hand I know that repetition shows that a person hasn't comprehended what has happened. Or that person is just careless. I have been very careless and reckless. I know that.I was greedy and self-absorbed. This was the pattern that repeated itself over and over. I was only worried about how all things affected me and disregarded her needs and wishes.
I masked my weakness by asserting a perceived strength. That would make me feel more confident about myself. This quick and temporary 'fix' gave me a feeling of self-confidence in me. The negative impact for my relationship was enormous. It took away everything positive that could have or did develop. Everything. But once I was on this track I couldn't be slowed down or stopped. I was very subtle and sneaky.I channeled my energies toward my selfish goal and that was to feel good about myself at her expense.
All I want is for her to begin to trust me, even a little. That's all I want. I know exactly what I did was wrong. Shame and solitude grow like a cancer. My desire is to cut them out. I always get caught and then run and hide.
But still, there is another side of me that just wants the problems I created to go away without any input. I know I want everything for nothing. I can't help it. Am I disconnected from reality? There are so many contradictions from me.

Wow. You think way too much about what should be a simple solution (apology) followed by a somewhat more complex fix (sorting your issues out).

"Shame and solitude grow like a cancer"? LOL, you're still the same drama-seeking, attention-whoring jerk it would seem. Gotta say, I'm feeling your wife in this. I'd dump your ass also and not look back.

Good luck Dan. You'll need it. I'm done with this thread too. Have to find yourself another place to get attention from. You aren't listening to us.

[Mish]

Then again I think am I not worth forgiveness? Wrongdoing versus Humanity.Am I that evil that I can't be rehabilitated?
My wife and I know what I did. What am I supposed to do when we both are aware of what I've done? I have elaborated about the ugly situations that I have created. That's what is frustrating me. I know you're thinking what reasons I have to be frustrated. I AM! I've been good.

Sorry Dan. You are trying to use some sort of incoherence to somehow weasel out of what is amazingly an incredible chance to make it up to your partner. Incredible because it is rarely given, she must think something special of you if she is even allowing you to take her back after some pitiful apology in front of that woman. Don't be a coward. Just do it.


Or don't. Maybe you are right. Maybe you don't deserve her in the end.

[bluesummer]

While I'd like to congratulate you for not screwing these other women, you should know that the emotional cheating is likely the MOST disconcerting aspect of this for your wife. Shit, I would rather my man slept with some girl once that he had no emotional attachment to, rather than him admitting to feeling attracted to or having feelings for someone else. You think YOU feel shame? How do you think she feels, being emotionally cheated on TWICE, taking you back after the first time, and believing you never do it again? She's been made to look the fool here, not you. Kudos to her for walking out and showing you she won't be your emotional doormat. I can say this because I've been in her position and I know EXACTLY how it feels.

If you love her so much, stop over-analyzing the shit out of this, accept the blame AND DO WHAT SHE ASKED OF YOU. If you can't do something that simple for her, you don't love her and don't deserve her back. You're just paying your 'love' lip service at this point. Don't start talking about why you can't do this or all the little issues that are tied up in doing this. It's going to make you feel embarrassed and uncomfortable? Well too ****ing bad.....it's probably minor next to how she feels.

Man up and do it, or expect that you will end up without her. It's your choice, and so far you're choosing not to do what's necessary to make her happy. Understand that she will likely never trust you after this, and rightfully so. It's going to take a lonnnnggg time to get her trust back, and you're going to have to fight to earn it. If you're not up to this, just let her go.

I highly, HIGHLY suggest some counselling for you as well. If she does decide to take you back, you need marriage counselling. Nip this in the bud before you do it again.

[DanPBG]

Its not that I’m not listening. I’m here because thats all I can do – writing things down. Nothing of what I put down here I ever expressed face to face with my wife. I always wrote it down, sent her emails etc. I’m not able to speak about these things. I can’t deal with conflict although I created it. I've never learnt it. I just want it to disappear. I know its kind of sick..I’m a coward. My wife is an exceptional woman. She is a very talented artist, intelligent, warmhearted, loyal, loving, caring, noble and generous in her spirit, and on top she is really attractive. She is an ultra strong woman and just perfect, but she never pushed herself in the foreground. She gave me a lot of credit in advance because she was believing in me, I know that. I’m asking myself why did I not gain confidence from there?. She was always there for me, as a partner and as a woman, but I was looking for validation from other women. There included a singleness, a neediness, loneliness, vulnerability.. it runs like a red thread through my life. Is it because I feel inadequate? I’m just asking myself.
Yesterday I asked her in an email what can I do to heal her. Here's what she wrote back to me:'nothing. I healed myself. This question is 4 years late. If its about to get my willingness to invest work on this damaged relationship, its the wrong question'.
What is the right question?
I'm afraid I was never embarrassed enough. I was never scared enough. I was never worried enough. I was never concerned enough...

[Mish]

Yesterday I asked her in an email what can I do to heal her. Here's what she wrote back to me:'nothing. I healed myself. This question is 4 years late. If its about to get my willingness to invest work on this damaged relationship, its the wrong question'.
What is the right question?

I'm only speculating, but it's probably along the line of 'to get YOUR willingness to invest work on this damaged relationship'

Why not be happy that she is still talking to you? Just do what she asks of you before she lets go completely.

[IndiReloaded]

Yesterday I asked her in an email what can I do to heal her. Here's what she wrote back to me:'nothing. I healed myself. This question is 4 years late. If its about to get my willingness to invest work on this damaged relationship, its the wrong question'.

More I read, more I like your wife.

And, no, I'm not telling you the question. This is your voyage of discovery, grasshopper.