Protestant Family and my search for truth.

[Mish]

Ah. THIS example. Right. Um, this wasn't done by a group of atheists, this was done under the guise of 'communism' & they attacked the church b/c of its 'unfair distribution of wealth'.

Its like saying that a tall person who commits murder does so in the name of 'tallness', lol.

But weren't Religious prosecutions of (whenever) done under the same guise of politics? Inquisition and Crusades for example were totally political. The message of many Religions is pacifistic, it was up to similar warmongers like in Soviet Union to twist and turn them into weapons.

By the way Soviet Union was a very good example of an Atheist state. Atheism was taught in schools, all Religious activity (Even on personal level) was prosecuted.

As to your scale ranking, the author meant the very specific definition of a Personal God, not other concepts like God as the Universe & other similar ones that ppl like Einstein mentioned.

My definition of God is both personal and God as Universe. Where does it put me on the scale?

[IndiReloaded]

But weren't Religious prosecutions of (whenever) done under the same guise of politics? Inquisition and Crusades for example were totally political. The message of many Religions is pacifistic, it was up to similar warmongers like in Soviet Union to twist and turn them into weapons.

By the way Soviet Union was a very good example of an Atheist state. Atheism was taught in schools, all Religious activity (Even on personal level) was prosecuted.



My definition of God is both personal and God as Universe. Where does it put me on the scale?

Mish, are you saying Atheism = communism? Really?

I think you need to read 'We the Living' again.

[Mish]

Mish, are you saying Atheism = communism? Really?

I think you need to read 'We the Living' again.

No, I 'm saying Ahteism = Atheism. Soviets chose Atheism as their political ideology of choice. They then proceeded to eliminate any competition to their Atheist platform and they succeded entirely.

Atheism or Religion are not inherently evil, it's just people are people. You get an evil person behind any one and they'll try to shape it into a weapon.

[anachronistic]

Lol, was that random, or am I just clueless?

I hope you're happy w/your 'search for truth' thread, btw.

Completely random. Kind of like streaking.

I'm trying to get back in the debate, just don't have time to read anything outside of my studies.

Me and some friends were reading some retarded Christian people's quotes gathered from websites like Youtube... if I can find the website, I'll edit this post and include the link.

[IndiReloaded]

No, I 'm saying Ahteism = Atheism. Soviets chose Atheism as their political ideology of choice.

Mish, they chose Communism (if you want to call it 'choice'). You are confusing apples and oranges. The absence of religion in this case doesn't make you Atheist (you just become a closet religious type). Remember the idea was IMPOSED upon them, which is the complete antithesis of atheism, which involves rational decision making. Just because they call it Atheism, doesn't make it so.

Or, if I had to call it Atheism, I would put it the #7 category on that list, which if you read my other posts, isn't really Atheism, its just the extreme opposite to Fundamentalism & equally invalid.

You didn't understand my example about murder by a tall man in the name of 'tallness'.

And if you decide to post anything from the internet on this subject, best make sure you well understand the SOURCE and their motives for writing it. You can find info out there about 'soviet atheism' but most of it is written by pro-religion organizations.

It is correct that there are nutbars from every 'belief system'. Sooner or later, some quacks calling themself Atheist will probably bomb a church. However, ultimately its neither here nor there to the true atheist. We have argument and logic on our side and don't need any other weapon.

[Mish]

Mish, they chose Communism (if you want to call it 'choice'). You are confusing apples and oranges.

Soviets chose Communism and Atheism as official state belief system to override all other beliefs. Just like Germans chose Nazism with some form of Christian beliefs as official state belief system to override all other beliefs. In other words apples are Comminism and Nazism and oranges are Atheism and Religion. Easily comparable

Remember the idea was IMPOSED upon them, which is the complete antithesis of atheism, which involves rational decision making. Just because they call it Atheism, doesn't make it so.

One can say that imposition of Religion on others is antithesis of Religion as well. Did you know for example that one of the high rulings in Islam is that "There is no compulsion in Religion". Just like atheism, Religion according to itself can not be imposed on others, others have to choose Religion following their own free will. Wther it happens like that in real life, well that's a different story

You didn't understand my example about murder by a tall man in the name of 'tallness'.

I understood it Indi. I just gave you another example, that Religion and Atheism in their core are not fundametalist or evil. However, you take Religious or Atheist fundamentalist and they will use either one as a weapon of choice. It's all about people not ideologies

And if you decide to post anything from the internet on this subject, best make sure you well understand the SOURCE and their motives for writing it. You can find info out there about 'soviet atheism' but most of it is written by pro-religion organizations.

The sources I posted on Soviet Atheism had nothing to do with any pro-religious organization Indi. I don't understand why you are saying this.

It is correct that there are nutbars from every 'belief system'. Sooner or later, some quacks calling themself Atheist will probably bomb a church. However, ultimately its neither here nor there to the true atheist.

But a Religious person can say the same thing. They can say that Religious extremists or fundamentalists are not representative of true Religious people. Religion is a peaceful, pacifistic, non-violent trend.

[IndiReloaded]

But a Religious person can say the same thing. They can say that Religious extremists or fundamentalists are not representative of true Religious people. Religion is a peaceful, pacifistic, non-violent trend.

Of course. Did I say otherwise? I've only said that religion isn't science and shouldn't be presented as such. Faith and testable fact are NOT the same thing.

As to religion (as a whole) being pacific, lol! You were hard pressed to come up with the atheist example you did. Its the same one I hear all the time & its misguided. But history is FULL of examples of religion being associated with violence.

I really think you need to read "The God Delusion" by Dawkins. You've got an open mind, right? Go ahead, get it from your library and then we can discuss. Otherwise, I'm in danger of repeating Richards entire book online and I don't need to, he's done it very well.

[IndiReloaded]

One can say that imposition of Religion on others is antithesis of Religion as well. Did you know for example that one of the high rulings in Islam is that "There is no compulsion in Religion". Just like atheism, Religion according to itself can not be imposed on others, others have to choose Religion following their own free will. Wther it happens like that in real life, well that's a different story

Oh bullshit (yes I saw the smiley) & you know it. Ppl get killed for thought crime in Muslim countries. Apostasy has led to the death penalty in several publicized cases.

[Mish]

Of course. Did I say otherwise? I've only said that religion isn't science and shouldn't be presented as such. Faith and testable fact are NOT the same thing.

I was only responding to your comment Indi "When has a group of athesists EVER threatened any religion?". They have and now you know it

As to religion (as a whole) being pacific, lol! You were hard pressed to come up with the atheist example you did. Its the same one I hear all the time & its misguided. But history is FULL of examples of religion being associated with violence.

That's true. But only because Religion has been a dominant force for the last few milleniums. While Atheism has only been dominant since recently and already there had been a bunch of Atheists stirring up trouble like in Soviet Union. Give it more time and you'll see it associated with more atrocities just like Religion. It's human nature to use some form of ideology against others as a weapon.

I really think you need to read "The God Delusion" by Dawkins. You've got an open mind, right? Go ahead, get it from your library and then we can discuss. Otherwise, I'm in danger of repeating Richards entire book online and I don't need to, he's done it very well.

Okay, I'll put it on my list. Thanks Indi

[Mish]

Oh bullshit (yes I saw the smiley) & you know it. Ppl get killed for thought crime in Muslim countries. Apostasy has led to the death penalty in several publicized cases.

Like I said "Suppose to be". In reality ofcourse it's not in some places like you correctly pointed out. Atheism is suppose to be peaceful as well, but just like Religion it had been used against others.

[IndiReloaded]

But only because Religion has been a dominant force for the last few milleniums. While Atheism has only been dominant since recently and already there had been a bunch of Atheists stirring up trouble like in Soviet Union. Give it more time and you'll see it associated with more atrocities just like Religion. It's human nature to use some form of ideology against others as a weapon.

I doubt it, but time will tell. Atheists don't build churches, don't try to 'convert' ppl & don't form coalition groups to try to change consitutions. Oh, and we don't have a bible either (unless you want to call 'Origin of Species' a bible).

I still think you are confused about soviets, communism and atheism. This sounds too similar to LWs link about the church bombing in (Egypt?) being blamed on 'atheists'.

In any case, if you really believe that, then I guess its good the Berlin Wall came down & we got rid of those violent athesists, hmmm? So, what are you currently citing as an example of 'atheist violence groups'? I can give you LOTS relating to religion, right here in Canada & the US.

[Gribble]

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg

I will never let this thread die!

[Only-virgins]

That's true. But only because Religion has been a dominant force for the last few milleniums. While Atheism has only been dominant since recently and already there had been a bunch of Atheists stirring up trouble like in Soviet Union. Give it more time and you'll see it associated with more atrocities just like Religion. It's human nature to use some form of ideology against others as a weapon.

Atheism is new and dominant since recently? wtf...haha...people are born atheists and they are brain washed into religion. Atheism is older than life itself....cause it essentially is the belief in nothing other than facts. Atheism is NOT a religion. Period. To not care and believe in nothing is not something....IT IS NOTHING. No one does crimes in the name of Atheism. KILL ALL FOR ATHEISM, if someone does a crime it is the individual they are....if it so happens that they don't believe in god doesn't make it that it had anything to do with their actions...religious buffs make it easy..they straight up in many cases say they do things because "god said so". If humans didn't invent religion years ago in order to control pathetic and simple minded people there would have not even been a debate and everyone would just be an atheist by default. Since religion though we had to create a word like atheist in order to have a name for those that refuse to believe in false claims. The first humans on earth were Atheists.

[anachronistic]

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg

I will never let this thread die!

I disagree. There are all kinds of evils in this world that have not even a slight association with religion. You can be almost completely ignorant and realize that.

[Only-virgins]

I disagree. There are all kinds of evils in this world that have not even a slight association with religion. You can be almost completely ignorant and realize that.

Ummm but that is what the quote says in the first part of it. . Defining evil is tricky in the first place.