Delicate situation with girlfriend on topic of rape

[arandomperson]

Oh, okay I only just read this. It does make a difference in that she doesn't *go* to those parties, she *has to* be there due to family obligations. And yes, she has every right to drink as much as she pleases, without having to get raped.

What still doesn't make sense is that she hasn't talked to her family about this situation. Has she told you why?

She says that she has told them, and their reaction is 'why didn't you push him off?' She says that she is being victim-blamed, and that she is tired of people blaming her for horrible acts perpetrated on her. It's a strong position to take, and she immediately absolves her of any responsibility.

It's a difficult thing to talk to her about when she takes that position. There isn't much I can say without being accused of apportioning the blame to her, in her opinion. Can anyone suggest a diplomatic way of telling her this has to stop or I'm done, without placing blame? Impossible?

[Wakeup]

Little detail that I got wrong, and may or may not be important. These parties actually happen at her mom's place, on holidays, Xmas etc. So she claims she has no option but to be there.

.[/QUOTE] First you said they happened at her brother's house so what's the truth here, aranomperson?

[chinagirl]

This is a family issue that I would not even get involved with if I were you. If the brothers are aware and are not doing anything to stop it I don't know what more can you do? Every time you talk to her in a sensible way, she takes the defensive side.

Where are the parents and how old is she?

[Wakeup]

She says that she has told them, and their reaction is 'why didn't you push him off?' She says that she is being victim-blamed, and that she is tired of people blaming her for horrible acts perpetrated on her. It's a strong position to take, and she immediately absolves her of any responsibility.

It's a difficult thing to talk to her about when she takes that position. There isn't much I can say without being accused of apportioning the blame to her, in her opinion. Can anyone suggest a diplomatic way of telling her this has to stop or I'm done, without placing blame? Impossible?

Then leave her alone and quit being her sounding board and instead tell her parents what's been going on and let them get her the psychological help she obviously needs.

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Its mind boggling the rape culture I'm reading here.

Yes, there is something wrong with this girl if she keeps putting herself in harms way but that fact, by any stretch of the imagination does not mean that the actual "RAPE" should be trivialized the way it has been in this thread. I don't think I read once what pieces of shit these men are.

It's like saying the two girls who were raped and hung in a mango tree in India shouldn't have been going to the bathroom in their outhouse. (that's when they were gang raped and murdered ~ on their way to the bathroom).

Talk about blaming the victim. These men should be punished for what they've done and she needs extensive therapy to find out why she's dumb enough to keep putting herself in harms way.

Just because she's dumb it doesn't mean that men have the right to take her by force. If she's saying no or she's too drunk to say yes then it's rape.

If she's saying yes then she's using "rape" as an excuse to not look promiscuous in your eyes, Op. Is she saying "yes?" Just being there when she's been raped before does not mean "yes."

Its very important that we teach our sons that having sex with drunken girls/women will and can indeed get them charged with rape if the woman is too drunk to give proper no or yes answers. Her being in the same place as the first rape took place is no defense.

[arandomperson]

It's at her mom's house. Apparently, on holidays her brothers have parties there with their thrashy friends, her mother isn't present. I assumed this was her brother's house at first.

[smackie9]

I smell a stinky troll here...............

[Wakeup]

I smell one too but being a troll doesn't negate the rape culture I've been reading.

[arandomperson]

I'm not sure why you think I'm trolling, but I'm not. Thanks for the advice though, I mean that.

[smackie9]

The logical thing would be to go to the parents because this is a family matter. No need to be asking people who don't know you from Adam.

[Wakeup]

[url]http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/[/url]

Op: Just tell this girl that you're going to tell her parents what's been going on. Let us know what happens after that. If they do nothing to help their daughter get the help she needs and to see that these men stop thinking that a drunk girl is ripe for the picking then come back with her address and I'll take care of the rest.

From the above link: Three of the symptoms of Rape Culture:

4. Mothers who blame girls for posting sexy selfies and leading their sons into sin, instead of talking with their sons about their responsibility for their own sexual expression.

People who believe that girls “allow themselves to be raped.”

Sexual assault prevention education programs that focus on women being told to take measures to prevent rape instead of men being told not to rape.

[arandomperson]

She doesn't have a Dad. I've never met her mother and brothers, she claims that they ask her why she doesn't do anything to stop it happening, rather than blame the guy.

I know that these guys are scum, if this is rape, and I feel bad for her if this is her family's attitude to it. But am I being insensitive if I say that continuing to put herself in that situation is wrong? Can I argue that she should stay sober and away from those guys, when they're around, without looking like I'm blaming her for getting raped?

[vashti]

Then leave her alone and quit being her sounding board and instead tell her parents what's been going on and let them get her the psychological help she obviously needs.

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Its mind boggling the rape culture I'm reading here.

Yes, there is something wrong with this girl if she keeps putting herself in harms way but that fact, by any stretch of the imagination does not mean that the actual "RAPE" should be trivialized the way it has been in this thread. I don't think I read once what pieces of shit these men are.

It's like saying the two girls who were raped and hung in a mango tree in India shouldn't have been going to the bathroom in their outhouse. (that's when they were gang raped and murdered ~ on their way to the bathroom).

Talk about blaming the victim. These men should be punished for what they've done and she needs extensive therapy to find out why she's dumb enough to keep putting herself in harms way.

Just because she's dumb it doesn't mean that men have the right to take her by force. If she's saying no or she's too drunk to say yes then it's rape.

If she's saying yes then she's using "rape" as an excuse to not look promiscuous in your eyes, Op. Is she saying "yes?" Just being there when she's been raped before does not mean "yes."

Its very important that we teach our sons that having sex with drunken girls/women will and can indeed get them charged with rape if the woman is too drunk to give proper no or yes answers. Her being in the same place as the first rape took place is no defense.

Ordinarily, I agree with the things you post, so I am kind of surprised you take this position.

Of COURSE a male does not have the right to take her by force, and should not assume it is okay if she is too drunk to consent, or if she says no. That is not exactly what is going on here... this girl apparently KNOWS she will end up having sex with these males if she goes to these parties, and chooses to go anyway. She doesn't live with her parents, she does NOT have to attend. Her PARENTS don't even attend.

It's insulting to equate this with the awful thing that happened to those girls in India. I bet they didn't go out to those fields expecting to have drunken sex, and I bet had they suspected what was going to happen, they would have gone elsewhere.

[Wakeup]

Educating someone (who isn't going to report her abusers to the proper authorities) to stay away from her abusers and while at the same time reiterating that the men are wrong in assuming that just because she's there she wants to be taken by force is the proper thing to do.

Telling her it's her own fault and insinuating that she deserves what she gets if she goes back is the wrong thing to do.

And FFS. You do not have to have met her parent(s) or her brother to let them know what has been going on and what kind of vile and disgusting friends, that her brother has in his life.


@ Vashti: I usually agree with you as well Vashti but rape culture is rape culture and to blame the victim is exactly that. She's stupid for going back, yes. But going back does not give those boys the right to do what they're doing. Nor does it give anyone the right to not even say one bad word against those boys who do what they do.

The point of mentioning the girls in India is because those men that rape assume that women are available for their sexual pleasure whether they are placing themselves in harms way OR they are not.

I'll add that rape is about dominance and control... not so much "sexual pleasure" as I stated above.

[searock]

I agree with Wakeup. If her mother's reaction when she told her that she had been raped was "Why didn't you push him off?" then OF COURSE that is victim blaming. Seriously, wtf?! What mother would say something like that. What decent human being would.

The focus should NOT be on her, on whether she goes back to those parties or not. It should be on the rapists who did this to her. THEY should be the ones not allowed to go to the parties anymore, not her. If her family members aren't going to help her, ask her if she has considered going to the cops.

[XyOh]

This is rape, plain and simple.

There is no such thing as a perfect victim.

Call the authorities and report these men.

She's already confessed to you what's going and that is enough to have the authorities involved. This is not a family matter. This is a crime and it affects everyone.

If her parents know and don't seem to respond, then perhaps this girl needs to be taken from their custody.

Call the authorities.