Trying to change a pattern

[violet11]

I've posted here before about a pattern that I have, which is getting involved with men who treat me pretty casually (make no effort), then I break up with them and they beg me to get back with them and go on about how I broke their heart.

Anyway, the problem seems to be that I set a certain precedent for a guy's behaviour. I'm quite relaxed and I don't like being the centre of attention or having people make a fuss over me… it makes me uncomfortable. However, I'm sick of being with guys who make zero effort with me. I want to know if there are clear signals I can give a guy at the start that lets him know he's got to make an effort?

I just got out of one of these situations, and I'm going on a date next Saturday. This is a guy I've met a few times socially, and met up with as a "friend" once or twice. We talk a lot on FB and as soon as he heard I was single he asked me out. However, he hasn't suggested doing anything specific; basically leaving the ball in my court to choose to do something. I'm concerned that this is the same pattern as with all the other guys.

How do I give the message that I want the guy to take the lead and try to impress me? I said to him "let me know if you've any suggestions for what to do" and he said said he's "open to whatever". I didn't reply to that message. Frankly I'm not interested any more if the guy isn't going to get his finger out to some degree.

[smackie9]

Don't go out with him then. Next!.....

The reality of it is men know women are the decision makers in a relationship....we say what goes, make sure they wear the right thing before we go out, etc. It's conditioning. Also men have wised up not to go over board on a first date, to spend little, and make it casual so to see if she is into him or his wallet. It's just a catch 22.

Guys are not mind readers, you HAVE to tell them what you expect or they just sit there looking dumb.

Anyways you have already been out with this guy a few times so he is just going on that level. I bet if he was new, he would pull out all the stops.

I'm shocked at how men these days have stopped bringing flowers to a lady on a first or second date. 25 years ago I used to get bouquets of roses or a rose by random guys, and all my dates too.....my times have changed.

The way I guage things if I had to, I wouldn't bother with this guy....he is already on lazy mode.....and they wonder why they never get a call back for another date.

[HDBadger]

Uh, why should a guy try to "impress" you? Why aren't you making an equal effort to try to impress him?

In dating, the woman isn't some great prize for whom the guy must jump through hoops in order to win. Dating is just about getting to know someone. That's it. There SHOULDN'T be a lot of big gestures, extra effort, and money spending by either party, at least in the beginning. You're just trying to figure out if you are a decent fit for each other.

Is it reasonable that you want to be asked out? Sure. But if you expect anything beyond, "Want to get a coffee with me tomorrow?" you have unrealistic expectations about the early stages of dating.

[violet11]

Uh, why should a guy try to "impress" you? Why aren't you making an equal effort to try to impress him?

In dating, the woman isn't some great prize for whom the guy must jump through hoops in order to win. Dating is just about getting to know someone. That's it. There SHOULDN'T be a lot of big gestures, extra effort, and money spending by either party, at least in the beginning. You're just trying to figure out if you are a decent fit for each other.

Is it reasonable that you want to be asked out? Sure. But if you expect anything beyond, "Want to get a coffee with me tomorrow?" you have unrealistic expectations about the early stages of dating.

Yeah…. this has been my approach for the last few years. Hasn't worked out so well for me!

[smackie9]

I know what she is getting at....if a guy asks you out on a date, he should have it arranged where and when, not "I'll leave that up to you to decide". I wouldn't go out with someone for that very reason....it's lame. So I see where she's coming from. I do not think that is having high expectations to want him to have the date set up.


Very little interest is being shown here IMO, I wouldn't hold my breath about this guy....keep your options open my dear.

[vashti]

How do I give the message that I want the guy to take the lead and try to impress me? I said to him "let me know if you've any suggestions for what to do" and he said said he's "open to whatever". I didn't reply to that message. Frankly I'm not interested any more if the guy isn't going to get his finger out to some degree.

I agree with you; if he is asking you out, it is his responsibility to figure out what sort of date he is asking you for. Tell him you would love to go out with him, but he needs to do the planning first.

Uh, why should a guy try to "impress" you? Why aren't you making an equal effort to try to impress him?

In dating, the woman isn't some great prize for whom the guy must jump through hoops in order to win. Dating is just about getting to know someone. That's it. There SHOULDN'T be a lot of big gestures, extra effort, and money spending by either party, at least in the beginning. You're just trying to figure out if you are a decent fit for each other.

Is it reasonable that you want to be asked out? Sure. But if you expect anything beyond, "Want to get a coffee with me tomorrow?" you have unrealistic expectations about the early stages of dating.

He didn't even take the initiative to invite her for coffee! And I didn't get the impression that she was expecting him to spend a lot of money - she just wants him to take some initiative. I don't think that is at ALL unreasonable.

[bekho]

Push and pull. Whatever you want from a guy, you have to make it happen. Rewarding behaviours you don't want. E.g. giving more attention to a guy who ignores you.

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[bekho]

-will not work in your favour long run.

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[michelle23]

I think a lot of men these days are terrified of rejection.. plus all the stereotypes, the media etc make women seem like aliens.. they don't have a clue anymore. It was easier in the old days when men were just expected to make a move-no real confusion.. now they don't have a clue how to handle women as we have become so strong in general.. I have noticed a lot of my friends b**ching about the same thing. It was never an issue for me really coz I like being in control.. I didn't find it difficult to just say "lets go for a drink" or whatever (after he asked me out)

Maybe you should take the lead and just be more demanding this time

[smackie9]

No this guy is just being f uckin lazy......There is no indication he is fearing rejection.

Guys are so afraid because they have never learned to socialize irl. Too much time sitting at home in front of a gaming console waiting for dinner to hit the table is all they learn for the first portion of growing up.

[Tall Penguin]

It seems like you are looking for love in all the wrong places.

Seriously.

If guys don't want to make and effort then what are they doing going on a date in the first place?

Raise your standards for whom you will date. Evaluate who you are, what you need and want, and move forward dating only men who will fill those needs.

This won;t be easy, it may take months of introspection or counselling, but compare that against the time you have wasted on these losers.

[Mattiemae]

For a guy to lead you have to be that way from the start. He calls you, he makes the decisions, he leads where the relationship is going. If you're saying you keep getting in negative relationships, it is because you have to be a whole person to begin with. Really you have to seek out what it is you need in life and where you want it to go. You can set up unhealthy patterns jumping in and out of relationships with men.

First off do you have expectations of how they are supposed to be and act? Drop the expectations. There are no rules to dating. Allow them to be who they are, and if you want to control things it will just end up in disaster. Let go of control and manipulation. Often we get in arguments because we believe something to be truth, but it is your truth, not their truth. Fortunately you really need to get to know someone and be best friends with them first, and be on an intellectual and emotional level. This is true intimacy versus superficial intimacy or love that is self gratifiying in the moment.

[smackie9]

Obviously a guy that shows enthusiasm and makes effort is a guy that has true interest. Stay away from the wishy washy and the so-so.

[Mattiemae]

Yes Smackie is right!

[michelle23]

No this guy is just being f uckin lazy......There is no indication he is fearing rejection.

Guys are so afraid because they have never learned to socialize irl. Too much time sitting at home in front of a gaming console waiting for dinner to hit the table is all they learn for the first portion of growing up.

hmmm maybe date guys who didnt go to an all boys school? girls seem less like aliens im joking btw..

OP If a guy is really interested in you then he will make an effort. When I was dating, guys took the initiative. I remember one asked my friend for my number, text me, arranged a date almost immediately and then made a huge effort for a couple of weeks until I let him down gently. I found the less interested I was in a guy-the more crazy he was about me..but then that approach can backfire a little coz when you meet someone you actually like-you dont know what to do.. lol

uh thank god I am out of the dating world. confusion.com