Occam's Razor

[Rowen]

Okay, so perhaps this is a strange topic to cover, but I'm really hoping to at least get some responses on here because I'm struggling with my beliefs in the universe right now...

For those of you who don't know what Occam's Razor is, it's a principle which states, when faced with a situation of one specific outcome, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
However, do you feel this would apply to coincidences within the universe? For example, if you believe that every event influences the other, would this mean that the explanation that it was "meant to happen" the correct one? Or, is thinking as such irrational?

I've been a huge believer in the multi-universe theory (The theory of the universe splitting with every slight impact, decision, etc etc and each of the worlds paralleling but never crossing), and for this reason, I'm beginning to question all that I've ever known. It just seems like some things are meant to happen and some are not, but I don't want to be irrational by believing that they are if they're not.

And for this reason, I'm just in this pit where I'm trying to retrace the events of my life and figure out some things for myself like where I'm going with my life and all... Does that make sense?

What do all of you believe about the universe? Or, do you simply believe that everything can be disregarded as a mere event on a timeline? Do you feel like we all influence one another, and, most importantly...do you believe in coincidences?
I can't seem to wrap my head around what I always felt was so clear to me. And I'm so confused... :S

[basilandthyme]

The answer to life, the universe and everything is

42

[basilandthyme]

In all seriousness though, I'm a rock solid athiest.....so I believe that we can choose our own path for life. Sure, our life can be influenced to the positive or negative by those we meet along the way - but I don't believe that meeting those people is pre-ordained by anything.

You ask where you're going with your life. How about taking your life where you want it to go?

[KingZ]

However, do you feel this would apply to coincidences within the universe?

Probably, yes, but not in the way you're thinking/hoping.

As human beings, we tend to think very strongly in terms of cause and effect. Being naturally curious doesn't help. Unfortunately, we will never know the answers to these questions; partially because they're invalid questions. In one paragraph, you mentioned the universe/multiverse, and in the next, you mention your life. These are two completely different things that have nothing to do with each other. Our lives are all inconsequential on a universal scale, and that's perfectly alright.

You're going to have to learn to be okay with not knowing the answers to any of this, and not base your life, your decisions, or even your emotional state on beliefs that are, in all likeliness, not even close to fact.

[Rowen]

You ask where you're going with your life. How about taking your life where you want it to go?

First of all, thank you both for your replies. What you're both saying makes sense, though I feel as though I didn't really get across what I'm trying to express. I'm currently trying to take my life in the direction of where I want to go by working on my novel and writing. I actually talked about this to my therapist the last time I was in his office, and I definitely know what I want to change in my life. I want to be a stronger person emotionally and correct some of my reactions/thought processes in terms of future relationships. Dave I know is long gone, and if anything I just want him to be happy in his life. I want him to find love with someone who will treat him right or just do whatever he feels is best for him.

And I used to believe strongly in what you're saying about it being ultimately our choice and us being affected that way. I guess what I'm curious about is whether or not I'm making my choices or if there is no such thing as "my choice" but more like a chain reaction. Not really pre-ordained but that perhaps the world is wound a certain way? It's hard for me to really express in words, as it seems to make more sense in my mind. I'm sorry about that. :S

EDIT: I guess it would be the end result for the human race I'm most curious about- where we all end up and why in the collapse of the universe.

Probably, yes, but not in the way you're thinking/hoping.

As human beings, we tend to think very strongly in terms of cause and effect. Being naturally curious doesn't help. Unfortunately, we will never know the answers to these questions; partially because they're invalid questions. In one paragraph, you mentioned the universe/multiverse, and in the next, you mention your life. These are two completely different things that have nothing to do with each other. Our lives are all inconsequential on a universal scale, and that's perfectly alright.

You're going to have to learn to be okay with not knowing the answers to any of this, and not base your life, your decisions, or even your emotional state on beliefs that are, in all likeliness, not even close to fact.

Very true, but mainly I find that, if I'm hoping for anything, I'll figure out the end of the timeline if there is one at all, like a book I'm reading. It's a bit ridiculous, but that's where I'm at. I'm not suggesting that I should base my life on sole faith in something or an event which will reveal the future or something. I'm not sure if there is a "something" or an event which will happen at all, and I don't know that it would happen or not happen if such a thing exists. I'm not going to put my life on hold waiting for something, but while I do my therapy and my writing, I find myself questioning everything around me. I guess the best way to put it is that I'm curious about how it works.

You're right that it's not limited to my life or anyone's for that matter. Though, there are times I'm curious as to whether or not it indirectly meddles in lives or if it directly meddles in lives. Or, perhaps there is no universe in this sense- just existence and empty space. I'm not sure. But you're right that I need to be comfortable with the fact that I will never know for certain. :S My thoughts all tend to contradict one another anyway.

I just find my thoughts wandering anymore. :S I probably am not making any sense at all.

[Valixy]

Interesting thoughts, Rowen.

I'm not familiar with Occam's Razor, but I'll look into it, as soon as I'll have a bit more free time and finish with some stressing exams.

In my case my personal scientific or metaphysical readings haven't always resulted very useful to me because I haven't always been able to connect with many of the ideas and I often found myself with more questions than before, but what has really helped me in life was trying to apply the basic good values like forgiveness, understanding, love, generosity, developing group consciousness and the concept of service.

I've had a bit of struggle with my faith for many years but it consolidated when I've been able to experience God in my life through a series of miraculous events. One of the major events was when a childhood trauma that tormented me for a long time healed instantly and completely when I had a dream with Jesus Christ at 27 years old. Another one was when a love relationship that I couldn't let go for 4 years after it finished even if that attachment meant a lot of daily sufferance for me, it instantly disappeared and healed when I joined a spiritual school. My faith increased a lot then and I began to have a clearer understanding of the meaning of life, even if I am only at the beginning of my spiritual journey.

I don't live in a world of contradictions anymore, not even when reading contradicting and paradoxical theories. They all contribute to revealing the mystery of life and enrich my personal understanding. However the books that marked a before and after in my life were the Blue Books, by Alice Bailey. I haven't read all the books yet, they need reading, rereading and lots of study so, I'm doing this slowly.

I believe that we are all meant to serve the humanity and to help improving life on the planet and as soon as we align with the good basic principles and make our choices respecting them, we are on the right way

Good luck with writing your book, Rowen! Sorry about you and Dave... You loved him lots but you weren't meant for him and let him go so gracefully - I think this says a lot about you.

[Rowen]

Thanks Valixy, and good luck with your exams!

You raise a lot of interesting ideas and points. There are a lot of metaphysical ideas which raise more questions. I guess all that matters are the basic principles, though, like you stated. It kind of seems like there is less of that in the world lately. :S The human race seems to be the only species which feels the need to label things and create reasons to harm one another under isolated circumstances. :S

Thank you for sharing your views. Perhaps, there is something, and perhaps there isn't. I can't say for certain, but one of my massive questions when it comes to religion is the classic "Who created God, or did we invent him to settle our fear of what we don't know?" (Not to bash your religion- please don't take it like that. Though I'm unsure, if I don't believe in religion, I do strongly believe in the supernatural. My family is a bit mixed in their religious views and their common beliefs on death. However, after my grandfather's passing, for months it seemed like some of our family members had a bit of a supernatural experience. An example is my one great aunt had appliances in her house turn on and off randomly (washer, dryer, and microwave), and when he was alive, my grandfather used to play tricks on her. It sounds a bit ridiculous, but could it be plausible? I'm not certain.

I like the idea of purpose, nevertheless. It sets things at ease a little. :S

Thank you for the luck- hope the same for you with your exams. And as for Dave, thank you. It's all good, though I'll always care about him.. :S I guess I'll just have to see what the future holds.

[Cerby]

I love these topics, but after reading more and more of the philosophical arguments raise by Paley, Gould, Hume, Kant, Descartes, etc, I have found that I have moved from an agnostic approach to more of an atheist approach. The more I understand the Teleological and Cosmological arguments that want me to believe there is a supreme creator, or at the least a being that initiated the first cause, the more I realize that these are all ideas that are put together in order to give people hope that there is more than a bleak end of simple non-existence.

The universe is something like 14B years old. I think that is the number that is consensual right now. So I argue this about God, or any being that your mind chooses to assign to that role...

I present to you two scenarios, and if you don't support one, then you must support the other.

1) In the beginning there was nothing, no time, no matter, no space. Within nothing, nothing can exist. This is where the Big Bang occurs, and to make this explanation simple - Is it essentially the start of time. This event must be a chance occurrence, because if there is no time, space, or matter, then there is no being to initiate creation. Thus, there cannot be a God because even He, the almighty, cannot exist in a void so vast even time cannot exist. Hence, from nothing came something, and this is the Big Bang. It is the beginning of everything, including time itself.

If you don't believe this, then you must believe scenario number 2 -

2) Instead of a start of Time, Time has always existed, there has, and always has been, existence. Time is an infinite expanse in both directions (or possibly a loop, but that doesn't change this argument, it actually supports it). Causes create effects, which in turn lead to further causes, and further effects. This has been going on for and infinite series as well. Since time is now infinite, a God or creator no longer has a place, he cannot fit in to this loop because in order to create, there would have had to have been a start, or a "First cause". Scenario 1 says that a "First cause" is impossible.

Because of these two possibilities, I find it impossible to believe in God, because he logically doesn't fit into Time in any place. I however, accept there may have beings who are far more capable than we are, but they are not "perfect", because perfect means to contain all perfections, which is also a logical impossibility. Religion defines Him as a "perfect being".

In the end, we are probably just a random occurrence in a universe of infinite random occurrences, our humanity will shine for a few thousand years, and then we'll fade away into the Void, and nothing will ever know we existed. We are a speck of sand on a beach that has no end.


Make the best of every day, live happy, die happy. You have this life, and everything after it is a question with no answer. Don't gamble when the house holds all the cards.

[basilandthyme]

And I used to believe strongly in what you're saying about it being ultimately our choice and us being affected that way. I guess what I'm curious about is whether or not I'm making my choices or if there is no such thing as "my choice" but more like a chain reaction. Not really pre-ordained but that perhaps the world is wound a certain way? It's hard for me to really express in words, as it seems to make more sense in my mind. I'm sorry about that. :S

EDIT: I guess it would be the end result for the human race I'm most curious about- where we all end up and why in the collapse of the universe

I think our lives are a balance of our own choices and chance at who we meet and what happens to us on the journey of life. And sometimes our choices get drastically altered by the stuff we experience. For example, since having my special needs son, the choices I make and the life experiences I've had are drastically different to what they would have been if I'd not had him.

As for where humankind ends up at the end of the universe.... We won't be around to see it. We'll trash Earth, die out and take a lot of species with us. But the earth will regenerate with new species and different way of life. No different to what happened when the dinosaurs died out or after ice ages. Humankind is but a blip in the grand scheme of things.

[Rowen]

I think our lives are a balance of our own choices and chance at who we meet and what happens to us on the journey of life. And sometimes our choices get drastically altered by the stuff we experience. For example, since having my special needs son, the choices I make and the life experiences I've had are drastically different to what they would have been if I'd not had him.

As for where humankind ends up at the end of the universe.... We won't be around to see it. We'll trash Earth, die out and take a lot of species with us. But the earth will regenerate with new species and different way of life. No different to what happened when the dinosaurs died out or after ice ages. Humankind is but a blip in the grand scheme of things.

I wish I could give you thank points or reputation points for this. :S

What you're saying makes a lot of sense, and it would explain the random-ness of life. It also explains how we would all affect one another even by writing posts on this site right now. I can see the logic. :S

It's true that we won't, so I guess it's a bit ridiculous to think about. And there is a lot of balance in nature, so it would only be logical that we'll one day go that same way. Perhaps, if it does the universe will evolve into something better. Maybe not. *shrugs* :S

EDIT: (Sorry- missed Cerby's post) Cerby, that seems to be reasonable as well. I guess it really comes down between black or white, though sometimes we believe it's any color we like. :S I can see the arguments for both sides, and I never really believed myself to be religious. But at the same time, coincidences in nature seem to be too random for my taste. So, I guess you're right with your last line (and what Basil and everyone else said too) "Make the best of every day, life happy, die happy. You have this life, and everything after it is a question with no answer. Don't gamble when the house holds all the cards."

I just wish I knew, I guess, as weird as it sounds. :S But then that would raise many other questions, I understand too. :S

[Rio]

Probably, yes, but not in the way you're thinking/hoping.