So What Now? Do We Not Talk Again?

[jl151080]

Tip: don't make friends with an attractive girl, they should be for dating. You meet a girl don't admire her from afar, just ask her out (providing she is single). And stop putting them up on a pedestal.

I'm friends with plenty of attractive girls, which works fine - they're not just for dating. Anyway, a good relationship should be based on friendship. Had she been single, I would have just asked her out. Unfortunately you can't help but put them up on a pedestal when you fall for them - that's what it's all about.

[HeartIsAching]

No, that's not 'falling' for them, that's being infatuated with them.

Knowing them as an equal, knowing their faults and loving them warts and all - that's love.

[TheEvilJester]

I can't speak for JL, but I can say that I often have a hard time witjh putting girls "on a pedestal," so to speak. So, I know from experience that it is perfectly easy to give people advice to not do that. The problem is, for a hopeless romantic type of dude like me, you can say that all you want, and I can know full well it is true, but I can't stop my feelings.

So, the better advice, really, is to learn to realize when that is exactly what you are doing. Learn to realize when you are putting somebody on a pedestal. Learn to acknowledge to yourself that it is okay to do that, so long as you can also engage your intellectual side and realize that you are probably doing just that. Realize that nobody is perfect, and you are just idealizing this person in your head.

In JL's case, though, it would actually be better just to distance himself for now. It would be one thing if the girl he was idealizing was single, but this girl is not only in a relationship, but is engaged. So better not to put yourself in a potentially bad situation.

I also don't necessarily agree with not making friends with an attractive girl. Some of my best friends throughout my life have been girls, many of which I have found attractive. I think my advice would more so be don't make friends with a girl with whom you cannot see being just friends. Don't make friends with a girl hoping it will lead to something more unless you can live with the possibility that it won't. In the case of the OP, it sounds like he cannot entirely live with having this girl just as a friend, so best to just distance himself.

[jl151080]

She did come up to me today....just to give me some work stuff, so I asked her straight out whether she was talking to me since we haven't spoken this year, and she said "yeah, I'm just manically busy" etc. She's regularly stressed at work, but I can't help thinking it's slightly BS. I'd much rather she just be honest.

[jl151080]

No, that's not 'falling' for them, that's being infatuated with them.

Knowing them as an equal, knowing their faults and loving them warts and all - that's love.

Yeah, that is love, but you can still fall for someone and not have your feelings reciprocated. And if you fall for them, you'll be infatuated with them.

[TheEvilJester]

Again, it seems like she may in part be trying not to hurt you by just somewhat silently keeping her distance. She isn't going to come out and admit that is what she is doing, though. Again, probably best just to keep your distance. In time, if you can do that, it is possible she will be able to feel comfortable around you as a friend again.

The only problem being will you be able to be comfortable with her as just a friend? From what you have told us, it doesn't sound like you will. If not, then you should stay at a distance. I wouldn't blatantly ignore her or do anything rude, just don't go out of your way to talk to her or hang out. Anyway, good luck either way.

[jl151080]

I can't speak for JL, but I can say that I often have a hard time witjh putting girls "on a pedestal," so to speak. So, I know from experience that it is perfectly easy to give people advice to not do that. The problem is, for a hopeless romantic type of dude like me, you can say that all you want, and I can know full well it is true, but I can't stop my feelings.

So, the better advice, really, is to learn to realize when that is exactly what you are doing. Learn to realize when you are putting somebody on a pedestal. Learn to acknowledge to yourself that it is okay to do that, so long as you can also engage your intellectual side and realize that you are probably doing just that. Realize that nobody is perfect, and you are just idealizing this person in your head.

Well said. It's easy to put someone up on a pedestal but you have to try and remember that they are a human being too, and nobody's perfect.

Her sister doesn't really get on with her, and she's always telling me the latest stories about how selfish she is and how she never considers other people. I've never seen that side of her. Maybe if I did it would help me!

I also don't necessarily agree with not making friends with an attractive girl. Some of my best friends throughout my life have been girls, many of which I have found attractive. I think my advice would more so be don't make friends with a girl with whom you cannot see being just friends. Don't make friends with a girl hoping it will lead to something more unless you can live with the possibility that it won't. In the case of the OP, it sounds like he cannot entirely live with having this girl just as a friend, so best to just distance himself.

I agree - the girl I sit next to at work now is very attractive and we're good friends, which works because I only want to be her friend and am not after anything more.

In the case of the OP, it sounds like he cannot entirely live with having this girl just as a friend, so best to just distance himself.

True - I really wish we could be friends because we got on so well, but the reality is although I'm happy for her, I can't deal with knowing details about her life because of the way I feel. Right now it's the house she's buying, then it'll be the wedding, then she'll get preagnant...I know that if I know any details, it will drive me nuts and you can't be friends in that situation.

[jl151080]

Again, it seems like she may in part be trying not to hurt you by just somewhat silently keeping her distance. She isn't going to come out and admit that is what she is doing, though. Again, probably best just to keep your distance. In time, if you can do that, it is possible she will be able to feel comfortable around you as a friend again.

The only problem being will you be able to be comfortable with her as just a friend? From what you have told us, it doesn't sound like you will. If not, then you should stay at a distance. I wouldn't blatantly ignore her or do anything rude, just don't go out of your way to talk to her or hang out. Anyway, good luck either way.

Thanks - I appreciate your posts.

What got to me was that she came up and gave me the work stuff, but she didn't say "hi" or anything. I know its a small thing, but it just annoyed me so I figured I'd just ask her straight, not that I ever get a straight answer. I wish she would just say "yeah, I think it's best if I stay away" if that's what she's doing.

I'm not going to ignore her blatantly and certainly not be rude - she's done nothing wrong, after all. I wish her nothing but happiness.

From what her sister has told me, though, she would have no concept of what I'm feeling because she says she never considers other people, so her actions wouldn't be based around that, but they have a volatile relationship!

I need to find some way to move on, to stop thinking about her and focus on the future. I've deleted her from Microsoft Office Communicator at work, I've quit Facebook, and both have helped a little, but it's so hard when I see her every day. I just feel I need more help, but I don't know what or how.

[HeartIsAching]

Yeah, that is love, but you can still fall for someone and not have your feelings reciprocated. And if you fall for them, you'll be infatuated with them.

Yes, you can love someone and not have your feelings reciprocated, no, infatuation is not a component of love. It's false love, usually made up of your self-imposed (imagined) perceptions of their qualities, not observation of reality. It's the honeymoon stage where nothing the object of your love does is ever wrong, or irritating. Where they're "perfect". When that wears off a lot of people are left with nothing.

Love is when that wears off, and you know the other person intimately, and still care about their well-being more than your own.

I have deep and glaring personality flaws... wife loves me anyhow. Wife has bizarre and frustrating personality flaws, I love her anyhow. She's not on any pedestal around here, I know damned good and well that she's imperfect. If you'd ever heard her fart into the toilet, you would too!

Hell, I bought a phone yesterday to avoid a situation that would've been triggered by one of her more egregious personality flaws - Friday we bought her a new Samsung Galaxy (a cheaper one), and on Sunday, I dropped my phone and broke it. She's so damned sweet and has such an ingrained reflex to take care of people that she would've tried to give me her phone and take her old one back, or gotten a cheaper phone and "made do"... so I went to the store, and bought a really cheap smartphone without her. When I told her what I'd done and why, she belly-laughed and said "Yeah, I would've tried to give you my phone."

See, I knew that particular flaw - and yes it's a flaw, often an annoying one - and used a work-around to avoid it. I have to work at NOT taking advantage of that particular flaw. If I didn't, she'd eventually come to see me as taking and taking and taking, and she'd resent it, even though she kept right on giving.

Because I love her to pieces, and don't ever want to lose her.

They're two separate things - I hope this makes sense to you.

[smackie9]

Having a multitude of female friends, and puttting girls up on a pedestal is the reason why you are still single. Women do not find any of that attractive in a guy.

[jl151080]

Having a multitude of female friends, and puttting girls up on a pedestal is the reason why you are still single. Women do not find any of that attractive in a guy.

I've always tended to have more female friends than male friends. And I don't see why putting girls up on a pedestal is necessarily unattractive to females - it means that you care deeply about them - though obviously it's difficult if its not reciprocated.

[jl151080]

Yes, you can love someone and not have your feelings reciprocated, no, infatuation is not a component of love. It's false love, usually made up of your self-imposed (imagined) perceptions of their qualities, not observation of reality. It's the honeymoon stage where nothing the object of your love does is ever wrong, or irritating. Where they're "perfect". When that wears off a lot of people are left with nothing.

Love is when that wears off, and you know the other person intimately, and still care about their well-being more than your own.

I have deep and glaring personality flaws... wife loves me anyhow. Wife has bizarre and frustrating personality flaws, I love her anyhow. She's not on any pedestal around here, I know damned good and well that she's imperfect. If you'd ever heard her fart into the toilet, you would too!

Hell, I bought a phone yesterday to avoid a situation that would've been triggered by one of her more egregious personality flaws - Friday we bought her a new Samsung Galaxy (a cheaper one), and on Sunday, I dropped my phone and broke it. She's so damned sweet and has such an ingrained reflex to take care of people that she would've tried to give me her phone and take her old one back, or gotten a cheaper phone and "made do"... so I went to the store, and bought a really cheap smartphone without her. When I told her what I'd done and why, she belly-laughed and said "Yeah, I would've tried to give you my phone."

See, I knew that particular flaw - and yes it's a flaw, often an annoying one - and used a work-around to avoid it. I have to work at NOT taking advantage of that particular flaw. If I didn't, she'd eventually come to see me as taking and taking and taking, and she'd resent it, even though she kept right on giving.

Because I love her to pieces, and don't ever want to lose her.

They're two separate things - I hope this makes sense to you.

I get your point - nobody is perfect and, as you say, in a relationship you love someone despite their flaws, as they do you.

Unrequited love - it is a form of infatuation, obsession, since you will never know them as intimately as you would in a relationship. You only know one part of them.

I do think there are very close boundries between the two, though.

[TheEvilJester]

I've always tended to have more female friends than male friends. And I don't see why putting girls up on a pedestal is necessarily unattractive to females - it means that you care deeply about them - though obviously it's difficult if its not reciprocated.

Ah. Therein lies another lesson I think we hopeless romantic type guys need to learn, and keep close to heart as well. Again, we can't help when we put certain women "on a pedestal." It is just part of who we are. So, another important lesson is to not actually do that directly to them.... especially if you are not in a relationship with them. I mean, granted, it is okay to tell people they are "really cool" or "a good friend" or whatever. I'm not saying you have to play it all cool like you couldn't give a crap about them one way or the other. LOL!

I'm just saying, best to basically just act like a casual friend. In other words, think of it like one of your guy friends. You wouldn't gush all over a guy friend about how they are "perfect" or they are "really amazing" or something like that.

Now, of course, if you ever actually wind up in a relationship with somebody you have up on that pedestal, then you can certainly unleash a little bit of that. Girls often do tend to like that mushy stuff. But, again, even then you still don't want to overdo it, and especially not early in the relationship.

It is a difficult balance for guys like myself. When you are so in love with the idea of falling in love, it is hard not to get over-excited every time you think you may have found somebody. It is quite a delicate balance of allowing yourself that excitement, while still engaging your intellectual side enough to realize that you could very well find out you've just been idealizing things. But, it is an important balance for guys like us to learn to avoid getting hurt.

I know this has become practically my catch phrase on this board, but seriously.... I wish you the best of luck. I hope you do find the girl of your dreams some day.

[jl151080]

Ah. Therein lies another lesson I think we hopeless romantic type guys need to learn, and keep close to heart as well. Again, we can't help when we put certain women "on a pedestal." It is just part of who we are. So, another important lesson is to not actually do that directly to them.... especially if you are not in a relationship with them. I mean, granted, it is okay to tell people they are "really cool" or "a good friend" or whatever. I'm not saying you have to play it all cool like you couldn't give a crap about them one way or the other. LOL!

I'm just saying, best to basically just act like a casual friend. In other words, think of it like one of your guy friends. You wouldn't gush all over a guy friend about how they are "perfect" or they are "really amazing" or something like that.

Now, of course, if you ever actually wind up in a relationship with somebody you have up on that pedestal, then you can certainly unleash a little bit of that. Girls often do tend to like that mushy stuff. But, again, even then you still don't want to overdo it, and especially not early in the relationship.

It is a difficult balance for guys like myself. When you are so in love with the idea of falling in love, it is hard not to get over-excited every time you think you may have found somebody. It is quite a delicate balance of allowing yourself that excitement, while still engaging your intellectual side enough to realize that you could very well find out you've just been idealizing things. But, it is an important balance for guys like us to learn to avoid getting hurt.

I know this has become practically my catch phrase on this board, but seriously.... I wish you the best of luck. I hope you do find the girl of your dreams some day.

I think in the past I have made the mistake of coming on too strong, but it is part of who I am. If I feel it, I have to say it.

If this girl had been single, I would've tried to avoid doing that and, firstly, just ask her out and take it from there. As she isn't, I figured I had nothing to lose and used the letter to get everything out, really. I told her that it was for my benefit as much as hers, because I had to let her know my feelings, and ultimately admitted I'm in love with her.

As she's taken, the one consolation I have is that now I know that she knows everything. There really is nothing left to say, and now I will never be thinking "I wish I'd told her....".

Thanks for the good luck. I appreciate it. I hope the girl of my dreams is out there and that I find her. I'm trying not to give up hope!

[smackie9]

I've always tended to have more female friends than male friends. And I don't see why putting girls up on a pedestal is necessarily unattractive to females - it means that you care deeply about them - though obviously it's difficult if its not reciprocated.

Speaking as been in that possition many times, I hated it. It's a turn off to us females because it comes off as weakness.