Called the Police

[VincenzoG91]

You're getting all confused by that co-dependency stuff. Now you think that I'm the addict, but you need to make up a new addiction to explain it. The low self-esteem charge is too tricky: am I forced to admit self-esteem or else face an accusation that I am faking my high self-esteem? Because I actually have a high opinion of myself, but I happen to feel regret about the worst things that I did in my past. Same with the denial charge, in any context. It requires the person accused to admit denial because the only alternative is that he is denying denial. Puritans like Cotton Mather used to drown witches like that, such that the only way to prove innocence was by death. I'm not wasting any more time on that definition of co-dependency, or any other.

As for the relationship... it's bad right now. And enough bad things have happened in the past that it's completely reasonable to say that I should end it. So I'm thinking about that. The White Knight charge hits closer to home, and I first read that article here years ago and have thought about it. But if I abandon her right now, I'm going to live with some serious guilt for a long time, because it will feel very much like the kind of selfish thing that I did when I was younger and only cared about myself. If we're not trying hard enough to make the relationship work, I'm willing to try harder. But if we're trying too hard to make it work and then we still have a major breakdown like yesterday, then it needs to end.

I notice that nobody in this thread has asked me what I want, which I think is something crucial that a psychiatrist would ask to gain insight. I want her to be independent. I want her to get the marketing degree and start a real career. I want her to do her own homework and studying without any help from me, and I want her to drop her campus job so she has more time to deal with her classes. I want to kick back and rest for a while and then work hard at my job search. What I absolutely do not want is for her to drop out of college and continue to rely on me financially while working at a lousy customer service job. So I help her, in hopes that she can graduate in the spring and get hired for a decent marketing job this summer. I also don't want to control her, because I want an equal partner, not a sidekick. Her major weakness is that she manages her time poorly. She also used to manage her money poorly, but she has become much better at that.

Anyway, like I keep saying, I'm going to maintain no contact for now and really think things over. I'm still upset over what happened yesterday, and I want this to be a good decision, not a kneejerk reaction. I am talking to the friends who know us both, and weighing what they have to say, but in the end, this is a very personal decision. And she has a decision to make, too.

[Wakeup]

I notice that nobody in this thread has asked me what I want, which I think is something crucial that a psychiatrist would ask to gain insight. I want her to be independent. I want her to get the marketing degree and start a real career. I want her to do her own homework and studying without any help from me, and I want her to drop her campus job so she has more time to deal with her classes.

All that you say you want is about her, not YOU. What do you want that doesn't entail what she does?

I want to kick back and rest for a while and then work hard at my job search. What I absolutely do not want is for her to drop out of college and continue to rely on me financially while working at a lousy customer service job.

Then stop enabling her by doing what she needs to do in order to not only get a job but be able to actually keep it.

Anyway, like I keep saying, I'm going to maintain no contact for now and really think things over. I'm still upset over what happened yesterday, and I want this to be a good decision, not a kneejerk reaction. I am talking to the friends who know us both, and weighing what they have to say, but in the end, this is a very personal decision. And she has a decision to make, too.

Sorry, but how many times now have you come to that same conclusion only to continue the status quo until things explode once again?

Anyway. I hope that you don't come to that same conclusion again, you're better off alone then you are with her. You've painted a vile and disturbing picture of her to us and when we agree with you, you defend her and her dysfunctional ways. Your life but look into yourself and ask yourself why you keep going back to your (emotional and psychological)batterer. No matter the label or lack thereof.

[HeartIsAching]

And how would you handle things? Sit on the couch and eat Cheetos while your girlfriend struggles with classes? And when she asks for help, tell her tough luck? There's a word for that, and it isn't love.

It has crossed my mind on multiple occasions that maybe she doesn't deserve the degree if she can't do the coursework herself. Then again, when I was in business school, quantitative analysis was strictly an optional class even for an accounting major, and nobody would have seriously contemplated making it mandatory for a marketing degree. The curriculum for it is still apparently not well-defined either, given that the instructor is skipping many chapters and bringing in a lot of supplementary material that isn't even in the textbook. If she needed help with a marketing class, I would agree that she doesn't deserve the degree. But this is like withholding a high school diploma because somebody couldn't pass driver's ed.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have helped her - I help my wife a lot with her schoolwork, but I do things that are tedious and mundane, like copying/pasting to create a document she needs, or scanning/copying, or making sure she's fed and has clothes to wear; I don't do her coursework for her. That's HER responsibility and SHE needs to understand her coursework so she can do the job she's in school for when she's finished. You're not doing your GF any favors by doing her coursework for her.

[VincenzoG91]

As I think back on this recent incident, there was a particular point where things went off the rails. That was the point where she wouldn't take no for an answer. She was unhappy with my help at that point and wanted to just bitch about that instead of working with me to finish the final problem, which was worth 10% of the grade and due in about an hour. I said that if she didn't like the way I was helping her, she could go ahead and finish the problem set on her own. I got up and walked away. That's when she started throwing note cards all over the floor and I started swearing at her. Something comparable has happened on other occasions, where she won't take no for an answer and demands that I do something for her. It's a particular problem, because the anger management strategy that works well for me is to call for a timeout and walk away from the situation for a bit to cool down. When she gets too pushy and demanding, she will pursue me when I'm trying to walk away.

That's just an observation. It may not be relevant if either one of us decides to break up.

I like to get my information from direct sources when possible, so I got curious today and tried to look up codependency in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, published by the American Psychiatric Association. It isn't in there, which means that codependency is not a generally accepted diagnosis by most practitioners, the insurance companies, the courts, or the regulatory agencies in the United States. The last time that codependency was listed in the DSM was in the DSM-III, published more than 25 years ago. It probably got dropped because people stretched the definition too far beyond the original meaning and it ceased to have value as a diagnosis. I recommend that people stop using the term.

[pcmaster]

I think you should have acted more mature than swearing at her. At the moment when she wanted more of your support you did opossite and turned against her with verbal abuse.

[searock]

Vince, it doesn't matter if you call it co-dependency or SuperUnicorn. You have those symptoms.

[pcmaster]

So Vince case is special and his relationship have SuperUnicorn symptoms.

[Wakeup]

Due to their below average functioning, these others may have few relationships as close as their relationship with the helper. This makes them highly dependent on the helper to satisfy many of the needs met by close relationships (such as the need to matter to someone and the need for care). It is this high degree of mutual, unhealthy dependence on the part of both the helper and the other that makes the relationship “codependent” and resistant to change.

Another quote worth posting.

You'll like this one Vince because it says that the term is used too often however: It goes on to discribe your relationship to a "T" as if they watched you and your gf as a study.

Popular definitions of codependence are so broad that Jesus would be classified as codependent. The meaning (and usefulness) of the codependence concept is diluted by these broad definitions. Since beginning my study of dysfunctional helping, I have tried to nail down the co-dependence concept.

I prefer to think of codependent relationships as a specific type of dysfunctional helping relationship. Broadly speaking, in dysfunctional helping relationships, one person’s help supports (enables) the other’s underachievement, irresponsibility, immaturity, addiction, procrastination, or poor mental or physical health.

The helper does this by doing such things as rescuing the other from self-imposed predicaments, bearing their negative consequences for them, accommodating their unhealthy or irresponsible behaviors, and taking care of them such that they don’t develop or exhibit competencies normal for those of their age or abilities. Although these unbalanced relationships can go on for some time, they are ultimately unsustainable due their consumption of the helper’s physical, emotional, or financial resources, and because they lead to resentment and relationship strain.

I'm sorry to take the focus off your gf who everyone just tells you how vile she is and you should leave her and back onto you and your own culpability in this "dysfunctional helping." Please don't discount getting your own professional help to overcome your feelings of guilt when you stop enabling her to remain in her own dysfunctionality.

Heres the link: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/presence-mind/201307/are-you-in-codependent-relationship

Based on ideas from the upcoming book “The Psychology of Dysfunctional Helping: Understanding and Recovering From Codependence, Enabling, and Over-Helping” by Shawn Meghan Burn, PhD

[HeartIsAching]

As I think back on this recent incident, there was a particular point where things went off the rails. That was the point where she wouldn't take no for an answer. She was unhappy with my help at that point and wanted to just bitch about that instead of working with me to finish the final problem, which was worth 10% of the grade and due in about an hour. I said that if she didn't like the way I was helping her, she could go ahead and finish the problem set on her own. I got up and walked away. That's when she started throwing note cards all over the floor and I started swearing at her. Something comparable has happened on other occasions, where she won't take no for an answer and demands that I do something for her. It's a particular problem, because the anger management strategy that works well for me is to call for a timeout and walk away from the situation for a bit to cool down. When she gets too pushy and demanding, she will pursue me when I'm trying to walk away.

That's just an observation. It may not be relevant if either one of us decides to break up.

I like to get my information from direct sources when possible, so I got curious today and tried to look up codependency in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, published by the American Psychiatric Association. It isn't in there, which means that codependency is not a generally accepted diagnosis by most practitioners, the insurance companies, the courts, or the regulatory agencies in the United States. The last time that codependency was listed in the DSM was in the DSM-III, published more than 25 years ago. It probably got dropped because people stretched the definition too far beyond the original meaning and it ceased to have value as a diagnosis. I recommend that people stop using the term.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

[HeartIsAching]

As I think back on this recent incident, there was a particular point where things went off the rails. That was the point where she wouldn't take no for an answer. She was unhappy with my help at that point and wanted to just bitch about that instead of working with me to finish the final problem, which was worth 10% of the grade and due in about an hour. I said that if she didn't like the way I was helping her, she could go ahead and finish the problem set on her own. I got up and walked away. That's when she started throwing note cards all over the floor

That's right - that's when she saw her punching bag/crutch start to tell her that it was her responsibility - HERS. She attempted to assert control through passive/aggressive violent means. "See what I can do? See what I'm capable of?"

You responded aggressively. Not a knock on you, most people would've... but you made it clear that you weren't cowed, you weren't beaten, you weren't the pliable pushover she's been trying to make you into.

Guess what happens to abusive people when you do that? They DON'T KNOW HOW to change tactics... all they know to do is to escalate.

And that's what she did.

When you called the cops YOURSELF, you called her bluff. AGAIN, she didn't know what to do.

Maybe you think the term "Co-Dependency" is over-used... but maybe you need to consider the idea that it's maybe not over-used, but uber-prevalent. From what I've learned of you and your GF, it seems to me that you do fit that definition.

[FAndrews]

I suppose what you got to ask in the end, Is this relationship worth the trouble and harm it is causing you and your partner?

[VincenzoG91]

A mutual friend is upset with me right now. He heard that I broke her laptop, which doesn't surprise me since I threw it about fifteen feet and then it landed on my concrete driveway. It doesn't matter if we are breaking up or not, that was a crappy thing that I did, breaking a college student's laptop when there are only about five weeks left in the semester. I will want to verify the damage personally, but then I'm going to replace it. It sucks to pay for something like that when I'm unemployed, but I saved some money up, I've got a chunk of money coming in a few weeks related to the old job, plus I have charge cards and money in a retirement account, so I can afford this and still cover my own expenses for until late next year at the minimum. She may have started the trouble on Friday, but I broke her laptop and all she broke was a plastic in-basket that cost just a few bucks. Unfortunately, because this needs to be handled ASAP, I broke no-contact tonight to ask if I can see the laptop. She said that is broken, but she doesn't want to see me right now.

She sounded really down. Whenever we clashed in the past, she was very focused on assigning blame, and generally she thought that I deserved more than half the blame. But this time sounds different. She sounded depressed and tired and was talking about dropping out of college because she apparently isn't smart enough to get the degree without help. She said that she finally realized that I think she is stupid, because I keep yelling that at her during arguments this year. She also asked for her finance book back, so she can try to handle the last few homework assignments and final exam on her own. And she said that she understands now that I am burned out on her education and she said that she won't ask for anymore help.

It seems like being escorted off my property really shook her up. In the past, she might have been able to rationalize her own innocence, but I guess it must have shocked her that the police took my side. Maybe this is a big breakthrough for her. She isn't subtle, so I doubt that this is some kind of trick. And for how far I threw her laptop before it hit the concrete, I would be amazed if it wasn't damaged. At the very least, she said that the screen is smashed, and that's enough to ruin a laptop.

I don't know if we're going to get back together. If I shook her up that badly, it might be a chance for her to get her act together. Or maybe I broke her spirit. Maybe I should just stay away from her for both of our sakes. We will figure out this laptop replacement, and probably talk about the relationship at some point. If I really messed her up, I think that it would be best in the long run for both of us to break up now. But maybe this is a chance for both of us to become better people.

Some of you will probably start ranting that I'm just getting sucked back in. But stop and think for a second. If I smashed a random stranger's laptop, obviously I would owe them a new one. If I smashed your laptop, you would definitely want me to replace it. Right? So regardless of the history of our relationship, I owe her a laptop. Yeah, I bought the previous one for her. But I'm fairly certain that I'm not supposed to revoke gifts to people by smashing them. And as a busy college student, she really needs a laptop right away.

[HeartIsAching]

I don't think there's anything wrong with replacing her laptop.

But I personally wouldn't bother with the contact or seeing the laptop - it's broken. Hell, I had one fall from a countertop, land flat and have the hard-drive die. 15' on concrete? Yeah, it's dead, Jim.

You'd probably be best served by shopping briefly for a comparable replacement, and PayPal-ing the money to her.

[pcmaster]

If you smash my laptop I dont wana know about you anymore.

[searock]

Just replace her laptop and cut off contact after that.