Wife had a meeting at a hotel and lied and now I've lost the moral high ground!

[polemikos]

OK, I don't really like sharing this type of information, but this has really been bothering me so I feel I need to reach out and perhaps get a bit of a fresh perspective.

Basically my wife had a tryst in a hotel while on a business trip. What happened on this tryst is unclear, and the odds are I will never know for sure what happened. My wife says that it was only a talk with an old friend, then during an emotional part of her confession she said that there may have been some touching and kissing, but she doesn't remember, she then later recanted and said that she was sure that they didn't kiss. There damn sure was a hell of a lot of planning and dirty emailing going on before this meeting though.

What precipitated all this you ask? Well, that will require a little perspective...

My wife and I have been married for five years. She is my first wife, I am her fourth husband. She is older than I by a few years. I worked abroad for many years. I brought no children into the marriage and she brought two, we have since adopted one more. My wife is a well respected Professor in her field, first female at her university to have tenure in her department and best published. My wife is a very smart and accomplished woman, and has never been particularly happy with my education, she considers me an intellectual equal but my BS has never stood up to her PhD, but our salaries are commensurate, so that is the source of some consternation on her part. She thinks I can do more, and should do more and that has caused some friction in our marriage over the years. I work a nine to ten hour a day job and she is on campus 12+ hours a day and goes out of town to conferences and speaking engagements at least once a month for days at a time and she still wants me to go back to school. She seems to have no realization of how my going back to school would impact our schedule at home with the children. Besides, what she wants, isn't what I want. This is, of course, entirely beside the point as far as she is concerned. And it really is beside the point for the purposes of this discussion. But this should give you a little background into our problems, a context so-to-speak.

Now, about 8 months ago my wife went to a writing retreat in Chicago. Her and about six other colleague from around the country gathered at another colleague's home in Chicago to write for a week. Normally she is very good about keeping in contact during her time away from home, but this time she did not. She was very hard to get in touch with, claiming that cellular phone reception was bad. I accepted this. When she returned from her trip she made a very big deal out of telling me that all of the men on the trip were “a bunch of 60 year old guys”. This too was strange, because she normally didn't discuss her colleague age or gender. You see, I am not a jealous person by nature. I have a strict don't pry policy, because I have been with VERY possessive women in the past. Not fun and it can kill whatever love you have for a person, so I have never required that sort of reassurance in the past, but she felt it necessary to reassure me now. I figured it was due to the strange communal arrangement of the writing retreat and just wrote it off again.

Then at a get together with some friends, and she brings out her phone to show some pictures of how nice the writing retreat house was, and as she is flipping though the photos she happens across a photograph of a man lounging on this plush sofa with shorts and tee-shirt and a laptop on his lap, and he was very much not in his 60s, he was about half that. She very rapidly skipped by the photo and moved on. I didn't say anything at the time, but for the first time, my radar pinged. She had lied. And she had skipped by the photo where she had taken time with the others to show us things. She didn't want me to see this one. She also became nervous, perhaps even agitated. She tried to play it off, but I know her, and could tell. That wasn't supposed to happen.

I found out later that they had been emailing every since that trip. Not a lot, but some. And there had been a lot of talk about her “slip” and her “nighty” and what she looked like under it. How they can't stop thinking of each other. I won't go into to much detail but it's clear that something happened at the “retreat”.

Now, you may be asking yourself, how did I get these emails? Well I can tell you, the worst, most dishonest way imaginable. I knew something was up the moment she got back from the tryst tip I talk about in the first paragraph. Her behavior screamed guilt. Everything she did said something was going on. She missed her flight home, and didn't care. Had to reschedule. Didn't care about the money it costs us to reschedule the return flight, didn't care. This has never happened before in the 5 years we've been together. Then when she got home she went directly to her girlfriends house, not home and stayed out until three in the morning, also a first. And when she did get home she was drunk. The list goes on and on. A litany of guilt behavior as long as my arm. Sex was strange and she insisted that I compliment her incessantly. So I did it. The unthinkable, I hacked. Was it wrong, absolutely, and now I am paying the price...

Because when I confronted her about her odd behavior and the missed flight she told me about the meeting. And here I was, with all the printed email ready to bust her ass when she denied it, but she didn't. However, she never confessed to the business at the retreat. All she was willing to admit was to lying about meeting him. She will admit to the fact that she wanted to be adored and the she felt adored by him, and that it is that which attracted her to him. But she won't quite admit to any physical foul play. Aside from her little bobble where she said that they kissed and may have touch then recanted later... I don't know what to believe. Except I know that she's lied.

So here I am with evidence of more than she admits to, so evidence of more lies, but not evidence of physical foul play, but it is evidence of the lowest moral point in my marriage personally, I intruded in my wife's email.

A true moral dilemma. And I am morally compromised. I've lost the moral high ground. What do I do folks...??

[searock]

I don't understand the question - are you asking if you should get a divorce?

[HeartIsAching]

How have you lost the moral high ground? Because you snooped in her email?

Ordinarily I'm completely against that sort of thing - but you had cause to be suspicious, and cause to investigate. USE everything you've gathered at the divorce proceedings, it'll get you a much better deal.

And there should be divorce proceedings - she's obviously cheated on you at least once. I'm betting it's a pattern for her, and that's the real reason she's been married three times previously. Run as fast as you can away from this dishonest, cheating, controlling witch.

[polemikos]

I don't understand the question - are you asking if you should get a divorce?

Not exactly, I'm mostly asking if I should use the emails I have gathered against her to try to extract more information because the questions are burning... I am unsure what is happening here. I don't want to believe that she has cheated on me. Clearly something has happened but what? And why did she confess even without me showing her the emails I had. I mean... I didn't lead in with the emails. I just confronted her with her clearly odd behavior, and inconsistencies, she was the one that told me about the meeting, even though I already knew because of the emails.

...And there should be divorce proceedings - she's obviously cheated on you at least once. I'm betting it's a pattern for her, and that's the real reason she's been married three times previously. Run as fast as you can away from this dishonest, cheating, controlling witch.

It wouldn't matter in the state I live in, who screwed who is irrelevant. No alimony we each get half of what we acquired during the marriage, and unless I can show she is a threat to the child she will get primary custodianship because she is a woman and the mother...

Welcome to the southern US... Makes pulling the big "D" trigger a whole helluva lot more real when you have kids! Oh and this doesn't even doesn't even begin to address the fact that I love my son and stepdaughters. I love them so much that I don't even think of them as stepdaughters. They're mine like they're my flesh and blood. Losing them would be like cutting off my legs!

[HeartIsAching]

Crap... you live in Arkansas too?

[HeartIsAching]

Oh... and it DOES make a difference, even if there's no legal provision for it, a sympathetic judge will help.

[Valixy]

I think she slipped because of vanity, typical older woman falling for the attention of a younger guy. You will want to investigate more on this if you feel that you need to have a clearer answer about what happened in Chicago. My personal opinion is that it was an emotional affair with some physical contact but she didn't go all the way. The emails you found would have mentioned making love too if it had taken place - lovers just can't avoid not doing it.

A cheater's typical behaviour that feels guilt after the physical affair when being intimate with his/her partner again is to make an effort pretending that everything is normal or exaggerating everything. She would have exposed herself too much asking continuously for compliments and a smart clever woman like her would know better.

And don't blame yourself for snooping, you had reasons.

[polemikos]

I think she slipped because of vanity, typical older woman falling for the attention of a younger guy. You will want to investigate more on this if you feel that you need to have a clearer answer about what happened in Chicago, but my personal opinion is that it was an emotional affair with some physical contact but she didn't go all the way. The emails you found would have mentioned making love too if it had taken place - lovers just can't avoid not doing it.

This makes a lot of since. Can't argue with the common since of it. Not sure it makes me feel a lot better. If asked if I feel better about a physical affair or an emotional one I would call it a toss-up. I know most guys would flag that, but for me I make no distinction.

The reason is, when I was a younger man, and by younger I mean in my early twenties I was sowing my wild oats and was unfaithful to a woman I cared deeply for. Men are not very good at keeping secrets, or at least, I'm not. Needless to say I was cough. It was only a physical affair, purely prurient and carnal. There was really no emotional attachment to it. Didn't stop one of the great flames of my life get away though. She was devastated and so was I. I never did understand why she couldn't get past the fact that to me, it was purely physical. It didn't mean it was uncontrollable, it was merely a weakness that I later mastered. An emotional affair on the other hand is a totally different thing. No hormones to blame on that one. No biological imperative. You can say it's something that isn't getting fulfilled at home - fine - but if so then isn't it your duty as a married person to communicate that to your partner before you go seeking that you in another? Emotional affairs require knowledge and forethought.

A cheater's typical behaviour who feels guilt after the physical affair when being intimate with his/her partner again is to make an effort pretending that everything is normal or exaggerating everything. She would have exposed herself too much asking continuously for compliments and a smart clever woman like her would know better.

Perhaps that is evidence that a physical affair did not take place, but an emotional one did. He was a flatterer and now she wants me to fulfill that roll? You are a wealth of good information!

And don't blame yourself for snooping, you had reasons.

It goes against everything I believe in. I hate snoopers. I've been snooped on. Spied on. It's as big a violation of trust as a lie. Justified, maybe. But at the cost of the moral high ground.

[Valixy]

My opinion is that the partially emotional/physical affair was for and about her. It had little to do with that guy. Not sure how you should handle this though. Maybe you should tell her how hurt you feel about what happened and decide what to do from there. A lot depends on how she will react to this. Her understanding and an effort to try to make things right for you could help you in processing everything, but still it won't be easy for you to take a decision.

[Starnique]

If she was married four times before, seem like that would have told you something. She's probably the problem. Anyways, there is nothing wrong with a little snooping for information. I personally don't look if I don't have a reason. If I do, then I have valid reason which MOST of the time, is proving that something is going on. Who the hell cares about "moral high ground"? All that shit goes out the window if you find something. Get over it.

You need to really take into consideration everything that has happened. Is this someone that you want to continue to be with? She'll probably do it again. I'm not sure what you want exactly but if you stay with her, you will keep having these trust issues and I guarantee you that you will keep snooping because if you snoop and find something one time, you will keep checking just to make sure. You need to figure out if this is really what you want to be bothered with. Married four times, she has a lot of mess with her and she dragged you in it because she is probably one of them type of women that needs to be single and maybe the married thing doesn't work for her. Now it's your problem.

[searock]

When you cheat, emotionally or physically, you are doing one same thing: betraying your partner. This is why your old flame never "got over" your physical cheating. It doesn't matter that it didn't mean anything to you - you betrayed her trust. If yours had been an open relationship, she would have indeed "gotten over it".

[smackie9]

Dude she has a bad track record...what the hell do you think happened? Call a lawyer and get this over with.

[VerticalMoon]

Even if snooping isn't admirable, it's definitely justifiable under these circumstances. What she's done is much worse than snooping. I don't think you should be feeling guilty about that as it's not the issue. At least, it shouldn't be.

Right now, I have to say that things really aren't looking good. She's lying, and you can't have a good relationship with somebody who is this dishonest. It's only a matter of time before they find an excuse to cheat again. The only thing you can do if you're not ready to give up is to hope she somehow genuinely sees the error of her ways and wants to change. It won't be easy. You can try though. Be completely honest about your feelings. Go to marriage counseling. Read books on infidelity together. Hope that somehow, someway something gets through to her. Even if it does, you both will need to put in a lot of work and effort to rebuild the relationship. This isn't a situation that should be fixed with a simple apology. It takes a lot of talking, and probably some counseling, to make the changes stick and rebuild trust in the relationship.

Otherwise, your other options are to get a divorce or to stay in a dead marriage for the sake of the kids. You can also try to bury your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing with her, but I doubt that would work for very long. If you do divorce her or if she ever leaves you, make sure to get a good lawyer. Those kids are likely to need a stable parent in their life.

[michelle23]

You did nothing wrong by snooping. You had every right to do . If i thought my partner is cheating, i would hire a PI. F**k that! You deserve the truth..

Anyway yes she defo cheated. Theres no doubt in my mind about that. The qs is what are you gonna do about it? Divorce?

[michelle23]

Ill just add that an a purely physical affair is way worse than an emotional one in my opinion. You threw llit all away just for sex? Its disgusting! Id deal far better if i thought he actually had feelings for her. Id still be like f**k you dont come back but at least he didnt toss me in the garbage just for a shag..
i think thats narcissistic- "it meant nothing, just sex, forgive me" its not that simple mate. cheating can literally destroy a person. i know from experience. it f**ked me up temporarily. i got over it though coz i know i can do better then thhat bastard