Yes it's me again... rubbish at finding love

[Desdemona]

Hi, it's me posting again about dealing with bad luck in love life (for those that remember me) but I want to present it in a way that reflects an increased self awareness from over the years.

I'm a 25 year old woman who hasn't had great success in love (that's original!) and here's a picture (as I know somebody will ask for one to get a better idea!)

I've actually applied to have counselling over this issue, but I'm looking for other perspectives here as well. So basically, this is the thing, most of the time I am reasonably happy being single - would rather be in a healthy relationship if I could, but no matter. I'm happy with my career, my friends, my appearance, and most other aspects of my life. I feel I have some unique talents and can be interesting company, can be sincere and honest and have a lot to offer a relationship. Of course I have flaws, impatience, sometimes being oblivious to some things, not being great domestically or when it comes to practical hands-on activities. But in fact, I don't worry so much about maintaining a relationship beyond any normal level - it's that initial "game" where in terms of the outcome, I'm quite frankly, crap. I just can't seem to get a guy to contact me to go on a date again after a week or two. I have plenty of friends, so I can't be unbearable company and when honest people who know me try to figure out why I have such bad luck, they honestly don't know - I wish they could give me a home truth and say "you know what, you do THIS" and at least there could be some kind of revelation.

But no, I just don't get beyond date two or three. Sometimes it may be petering out of interest, or that they're players - that's fine, that happens. But it even happens with guys who seem genuinely interested, and who I'm interested in too. My most recent example:

I met a guy at a meetup, we hit it off quite well, nothing major happened but we got on well and he hugged me before leaving, and I had a small sense of something there. I invited him out to Karaoke with some other friends, and it ended up being the two of us, and being a "date". It seemed great - we had great conversation, I felt no unease, and he seemed genuinely interested and appreciative of me, as I did of him. Perhaps he was being "nice", but at about 10pm we were on the way home towards the station when he asked me if I wanted to go to a cafe and spend a bit more time - it could have quite easily ended there if he wanted it - but he did want to spend more time. At the end we hugged and held hands, and it seemed clear he liked me, but he wasn't too sexual, which I thought was good - it didn't seem solely sexually motivated. He mentioned several times during the date about meeting again. We part, and I send a message saying I had a great time and an email to my song page (as I had mentioned it and we both loved singing). Yet, four days later, (until now) and still no call or invitation for a date. My instincts say I could just initiate and perhaps it could work, but it seems everyone and general wisdom opposes this with the basic message - "if he doesn't message you, he's not that into you". So it seems, yet again, the same thing has happened. The only thing I can think of is that sending the text and the email came across as too strong in contact, or too impatient before he sent anything, but there was nothing intense in the content (nothing like "I really miss you" or anything like that). I feel like that I must have screwed up something potentially great, and that's the worst thing of all.

And this relates to the wider issue - I end up liking a guy, he may like me for a while, and then disappears. Then the feelings of insecurity, anxiety, over-analysis, second guessing, and lack of confidence in myself and my judgement in relation to romantic relationships starts seeping in again. What's going on? I feel it can only be something I do on a really subconscious level that I don't realise, (hence counselling). The only thing I can think of is my massive preoccupation with NOT coming across as desparate and needy. One could argue that I then over-compensate, but then I never deliberately ignore messages or act deliberately stand offish - but perhaps I'm just too preoccupied with it. During the date itself, I genuinely feel confident, at ease, and not thinking about this sort of thing. And it often feels that THIS TIME, it's going to go somewhere, and I'm feeling optimistic. But it's when we're apart and the contact doesn't come that all this ridiculous analysis and ridiculously long posts like these come about - so I genuinely do feel that it's not because I seem neurotic on the date, and people say that I don't seem that way, but again, it COULD be operating on a really sub conscious level that I don't realise.

The only advice I've ever got is minor changes in appearance, and relatively superficial things, but I don't think that's a fundamental cause here. I feel like I could make a great girlfriend, I'm low drama, quite laid back and don't worry about petty things in relationships (although you could argue my worry about romantic relationships in general is petty in the grand scheme of things, but rejection still hits me quite hard, quite honestly), I don't ask where a guy has been, why he hasn't called, don't constantly talk about myself (obviously I am here because it's about my issues, but I don't in real life), I don't put in excessive effort, I don't get overly emotional, sad or dramatic, I don't get too intense early on (I am in this post though!) and I honestly tend to feel natural, relaxed and happy during the date itself, it's only afterwards where some seemingly magical force sets in.

Just some disclaimers, I don't act in real life as I write here (which people on forums tend to assume), and there have been instances where guys have disappeared where I have known why - often just not enough chemistry or compatibility, or he was looking for sex. But yet I've never had a genuine guy who wanted more than sex initiate contact with me and want to start a relationship with me (it's only ever been sexually motivated), apart from one guy who I split up with because we couldn't be in the same country before, but to be honest, I think it worked because I wasn't initially attracted to him and he somehow pursued me, I don't know when that could happen again...

If you managed to read all this, I applaud you...I'd really, really appreciate insights and comments, particularly from those more experienced in relationships than me (most people then!)

[smackie9]

Ask a close guy friend for some insight....just tell them to be totally honest with you...maybe you have horrible breath, or something along those lines that may turn a person off when they get close to you. Maybe you have an annoying laugh.....to some guys those are deal breakers.

[fearoflove]

Maybe its your demeanour. Too shy or meek? Your photo gives me that impression.

[4 ratties]

I had the same issues before I met my boyfriend.. I would date a guy for a couple weeks, everything would be heading in the right direction and then BAM, he would start talking to me less and Blowing me off, I just knew he wasn't that interested anymore. Even when I did nothing wrong. I literally went through that with about 6 guys last year.. Then finally I met my bf when I had given up and he pursued me like crazy it was so nice to not have to do the chasing for once. As silly as it sounds, I honestly think you just haven't met "the one" not necessarily your soul mate, just a guy, who has that spark towards u and wants u in their life. There's somebody for everybody so I don't think you should change anything about yourself. Finding love is really luck I believe. Being at the right place at the right time with the right person.. There's no way to force it

[Desdemona]

Ask a close guy friend for some insight....just tell them to be totally honest with you...maybe you have horrible breath, or something along those lines that may turn a person off when they get close to you. Maybe you have an annoying laugh.....to some guys those are deal breakers.

I do admit my post is long so you may have not read it all, but as I mentioned, I have asked many close friends about this and there isn't much they can think of. There have been various points brought up, but none of them would be universal massive deal breakers. (E.g. I'm not amazingly domestic although not a slob - that may put off some men who really appreciate a woman who's a great cook, but not every man would have this as a priority.)

[smackie9]

I'm thinking in the short term like you mentioned they don't call back after the first or second date. I am just going by what my male co-workers have experienced so here are some of their suggestions.... Maybe you seem boring in your converstations, or you talk about past relationships, talk too much, talk too fast, you one up their story or experience, talk about relationships too soon, you meet up with guys that are a little drunk or get drunk (not stumbling drunk), your voice is annoying, BO problem as the night goes on, lack of sex appeal, talk about having kids, repeat yourself, put yourself down, don't show enough epxpression......I could go on and on.

Anyways what were the valid points your friends brought up???

[Desdemona]

I'm thinking in the short term like you mentioned they don't call back after the first or second date. I am just going by what my male co-workers have experienced so here are some of their suggestions.... Maybe you seem boring in your converstations, or you talk about past relationships, talk too much, talk too fast, you one up their story or experience, talk about relationships too soon, you meet up with guys that are a little drunk or get drunk (not stumbling drunk), your voice is annoying, BO problem as the night goes on, lack of sex appeal, talk about having kids, repeat yourself, put yourself down, don't show enough epxpression......I could go on and on.

Anyways what were the valid points your friends brought up???

The vast majority of things in that list you mention really annoy me too and I make a point of not being like that (especially talking about relationships too soon or talking about exes, yeuch) - I've never been told I'm any of those things, apart from perhaps talking a bit too quickly sometimes. This is why people have trouble giving advice to me - apparently I don't appear to fall into the typical categories of women to avoid. Also I'm thinking of more subtle traits to do with character rather than superficial aspects that can be easily fixed. I think if it was superficial I'd have figured it out by now or somebody would have pointed it out to me.

The points that people have come up with, which I could agree could be negative in some situations, but perhaps not all:

- Perhaps I'm too laid back, apparently some men may prefer it if a woman is at least a bit argumentative, as it highlights difference which can be appealing. While I'm probably less outspoken than some, I wouldn't say I'm a complete pushover, but I tend not to bother nagging or moaning about if somebody annoys me in a minor way, I just get on with it, and don't really hold it against anyone which I'd think would make someone feel at ease, but perhaps not.
- I meet the wrong guys - Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places, as they say, although to be honest I can't think of many other places to look and I'm not about to go everywhere and anywhere on the quest for a man. Perhaps I'm losing the battle before it begins, but surely I can't ALWAYS be meeting the wrong people can I?
- That my intelligence intimidates people - I don't think this myself to be honest as it'd be a convenient way to justify my singleness to myself, but I have been told it on some occasions.

[smackie9]

Maybe they find you are a bore and don't show enough emotion. Guys love a girl that is fun, bubbly, flirty, sexy, feminine, open, free spirited. Body language is very important, like submissively looking up at them.... makes a guy melt.

[smackie9]

Id like to make a suggestion....You are a nice looking girl BUT your hair is scraggly and you lack make up, your mary moon appearance wont cut it if you want to attract a great guy.....seek out a salon for a more healthier fresher look. I think you should treat yourself to a make over to give you a more polished look.

The more polished you look the better quality guy you will get.

[haxan]

Smackie covered quite a lot of annoying traits

OP, you say you don't really possess any of them. From a mans perspective, if I initially enjoyed your company and then was turned off within a few days, it's without a doubt the personality. SOMETHING about how they are or carry themselves was a deal breaker.

If I had to do a quick profile based on a pic, I'd say you are or were a big Harry Potter fan and are all grown up now.

Take a walk on the wild side. Do something sexy with the hair, stop looking for an LTR out of every date and see if by accident a guy can discover the fun side of you, and like it.

[haxan]

Good thinking not to justify your singleness based upon your gifted intelligence. When I was around your age (early 20's) I pretty much just lifted weights, hung out at the beach, worked in the clubs and partied...but I always had cute lil studious n super bright girlfriends from university. It's symmetrical I wasn't intimated by their intellect, it was a big turn on, plus they were the hottest behind closed doors, thinking up all those ways to be defiled I guess

[pcmaster]

Its normal that it dont work out with some guys. You might have to go over 10ths of guys to find a guy who have what you looking for - long lasting interest. To increase you chances go on a double dates with a friend(wingman/wingirl) so she might maybe notice something wrong along the process.

Anyway I downloaded this How To Instantly Connect With Anyone guide from torrent and its pretty interesting to listen. Lady talks about little things that we do when communicate. How with just a simple handshake warm from your touch tranfswers to the blood and this warm goes then to the heart and so on. How asking about other person feelings is more atractive than waiting for something to happen and so on.

[Desdemona]

Smackie covered quite a lot of annoying traits

OP, you say you don't really possess any of them. From a mans perspective, if I initially enjoyed your company and then was turned off within a few days, it's without a doubt the personality. SOMETHING about how they are or carry themselves was a deal breaker.

If I had to do a quick profile based on a pic, I'd say you are or were a big Harry Potter fan and are all grown up now.

Take a walk on the wild side. Do something sexy with the hair, stop looking for an LTR out of every date and see if by accident a guy can discover the fun side of you, and like it.

I can see it makes sense of initially feeling something but it fading - but what if there is palpable connection during the date - even when he is going out of his way to spend more time with me on the date (e.g. on the way home but asking if actually we could do something else before going home) yet during our time apart he suddenly thinks "actually no, I won't see her again now" (and this is without me sending any mushy texts, or any texts pushing him away). I can't make sense of it.

I was a big Harry potter fan and all grown up now? What a peculiar observation to make...interesting at least. Yes I did like Harry Potter I guess, but then it isn't uncommon.

Remember, this picture is just one shot of me - my hair isn't always like this - although it is annoyingly thin and there isn't much of it. I guess it can't hurt to change things up a little in terms of dress, but somehow I don't think it would have changed the outcome of any of the situations I've been in.

I'm looking for an LTR but I don't see it in every date, certain dates I can sense will just be light hearted and go no further, which is fine.

[dem862]

You seem too passive to me, perhaps somewhat depressed, and contrary.

[Desdemona]

You seem too passive to me, perhaps somewhat depressed, and contrary.

Could you elaborate? Why passive, or "contrary", what do you mean? Probably right now I do feel a bit depressed which is why I feel the need to write this, but I'm not always like this.